Vatican envoy: 'no further room for denial' on climate change [CC]

  • Thread starter Thread starter Catholic_Press
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Birdpreacher said:
against who? I don’t believe in a god(s)

And if this drivel can shake you out of your sleep as a Christian into realizing you are called to be a steward and take that responsibility seriously, then yes, it was worth it.

I don’t get an afterlife, this earth is all me and my descendents will have 😉
Click to expand...
How, specifically, is anybody here being a bad steward?
 
ucfengr said:
How, specifically, is anybody here being a bad steward?
Click to expand...
IN the CAtholic Tradition, can anybody by said to be a good steward if they insist on disagreeing and arguing with the Pope as to whether there is a moral responsibility to manage greenhouse gas emissions more carefully. I mean he’s the Pope, speaking on a moral issue, why all the feet dragging and skepticism from you guys, thats usually us agnostics/atheists job.
 
Birdpreacher said:
You misconstrue. This discussion has nothing to do with the Church’s insistence on subsidarity (Its even more ironic given that the recent push to curb global warming/environmentalism is a bi-product of grass roots organizations effecting its will onto big national govts)

When, in the course of moral decision making does the Church teach. “Alright, now take into account how much money there is to be made”

This is why you catholics have CATHOLIC INVESTMENT corporations that only but money in church sanctioned businesses.

Surely you would agree that when taking into account whether the use of condoms is moral one ought not let the sad sob story of the condom maker and his family come into play.
Click to expand...
Laughable and typical response from the Left.

No, this isn’t coming from a “grassroots” people’s movement. It’s coming from a hysterical kook-fringe, backed by a lock-step Leftist media, “academia”, etc. To the vast majority of Americans, it’s not an issue. They have common sense.

How much money is to be made? Al Gore made a billion! Solar energy companies were/are given government funding and no one buys their product. YOU guys are the big bucks racketeers. Big $$ is always on the Left. Wall Street votes Left. Buffett, Gates and Apple are all Lefties.

Your line about condoms is lame–again, typical Leftist drone “humor”. Not worth answering. You say you went to Catholic school. Unfortunately, that probably explains it.

Now carry on whistling past the rubble that you guys create. Watch your 50s sci fi flicks. The Thing is a good one.
 
MarkR said:
Laughable and typical response from the Left.

No, this isn’t coming from a “grassroots” people’s movement. It’s coming from a hysterical kook-fringe, backed by a lock-step Leftist media, “academia”, etc. To the vast majority of Americans, it’s not an issue. They have common sense.

How much money is to be made? Al Gore made a billion! Solar energy companies were/are given government funding and no one buys their product. YOU guys are the big bucks racketeers. Big $$ is always on the Left. Wall Street votes Left. Buffett, Gates and Apple are all Lefties.

Your line about condoms is lame–again, typical Leftist drone “humor”. Not worth answering. You say you went to Catholic school. Unfortunately, that probably explains it.

Now carry on whistling past the rubble that you guys create. Watch your 50s sci fi flicks. The Thing is a good one.
Click to expand...
Aahh, so many claims and no proof. I love the internets.

Have you investigated the history of the environmentalism movement in the United States?
Private groups of citizens have always been at the forefront, often against big businesses in effecting policy changes in govt. Organizations like:
  • The Nature Conservancy estb. in the 1950s, a group of private citizens buying up land as preserves for nature
    -The Sierra Club was created by a group of friends in 1892: a private hiking club built up enough support to effectuate real change in helping pass the Clean Water Act/ Endangered Species Act
  • Even the Boy Scouts of America (EagleScout here) offer a sustainability merit badge that requires kids learn and exercise strategies for sustaining the environment.
I love your passion for wanting to find corrupt politicians who are profiting on policy decisions. I would encourage that same zeal into Wall Street Reform and Income Inequality, were the truly powerful are profiting (multinational corporations) Crony capitalism affects both parties, but to throw sound policy away because the individuals enacting it MAY be corrput appears to be making the mistake of throwing the baby out with the bath water.

And, why not replace condom use with any other sinful act? The Church has never taught that ends justify the means.
 
PaulfromIowa said:
It is a very grave error for bishops to involve themselves in partisan politics and scientific debates, with the exception of human life/human morality/religious freedom issues. Bishops should not be dictating economic or political systems.

We should all pray for the Church. It is in grave danger in many countries today.
Click to expand...
Not to mention that the actual data runs counter to the climate alarmist propaganda.
Stating ‘no further room for denial’ shows they have not even given a cursory glance at the data.
 
MarkR said:
This is absurd. “Economic consequences” that cause suffering, are most certainly within the prevue of the Catholic Church. What you’re basically saying is “Let God sort it out”. Brilliant. Very “compassionate”.

The laws that are being implemented in the United States right now are causing, and intentionally meant to cause, true hardship. Many people are losing their livelihoods. they can’t both pay their utility bills and keep up with the rent, they pay so much for gas that those earning a low income have seen it depleted to the point that they can’t pay their bills (including food bills) or travel, the list goes on and on–all for the sake of junk science and a government seeking centralized Power.

The Catholic Church has spoken out on this. It’s traditionally been in favor of the principle of subsidiarity. The principle that government, which include economic systems, should be organized so that power radiates upward, not from the top down. That it should be as close to the individual as possible, i.e., the family, neighbors, community, town, county state, etc., not from some centralized, distant, all-powerful government who know the least or nothing at all about an individuals circumstances. Pope Benedict spoke of it frequently (being a victim of it’s opposite–the Nazis). These “Global Warming” mandates flip this principle on its head. It cedes absolute power, on many levels, to a far distant national, or even global entity. This is why they frantically push this junk. It’s about Power.
Click to expand...
That is not at all what subsidiarity says. Subsidiarity says that issues that can be handled locally should be handled locally. Global warming quite obviously is not one of those things. But of course you are right about economic consequences being within the purview of Catholic moral thought.
This myth has been debunked. The information is out there, solid and growing. It’s acolytes either refuse to look at it or don’t know about it because its being attacked by people with a vested interest, or blacked out. The Catholic Church has traditionally been the voice of reason when doomsday movements cropped up. Why this now?
Click to expand...
Calling it a myth and calling people who agree with it acolytes is not a very convincing argument. It is just name calling. In answer to your question “why now”, I would suggest that is indeed the question, and it deserves a serious answer before anyone can conclude that global warming is a myth.
 
PaulfromIowa said:
It is a very grave error for bishops to involve themselves in partisan politics and scientific debates, with the exception of human life/human morality/religious freedom issues.
Click to expand...
Doesn’t it bother you just a little that you had to make this exception? Bishops can’t possible be experts on the science of climate change. But when it comes to DNA and zygotes and such, suddenly they are allowed to be expert scientists?

For what it’s worth, the Church’s position on life issues does not rest on science, since it goes back many centuries, long before anyone knew what DNA or haploid cells were. So maybe that’s what you meant. But don’t tell me the bishops only know about microscopes and are totally ignorant of thermometers and satellites.
 
Ignatius said:
Not to mention that the actual data runs counter to the climate alarmist propaganda.
Stating ‘no further room for denial’ shows they have not even given a cursory glance at the data.
Click to expand...
Are you calling the Vatican envoy a climate alarmist, or just one of their tools?
 
LeafByNiggle said:
Doesn’t it bother you just a little that you had to make this exception? Bishops can’t possible be experts on the science of climate change. But when it comes to DNA and zygotes and such, suddenly they are allowed to be expert scientists?

For what it’s worth, the Church’s position on life issues does not rest on science, since it goes back many centuries, long before anyone knew what DNA or haploid cells were. So maybe that’s what you meant. But don’t tell me the bishops only know about microscopes and are totally ignorant of thermometers and satellites.
Click to expand...
LeafByNiggle - I would think that the question of life beginning (i.e. from conception) is a much more settled matter than the question of global warming / environment, etc. So you’re conflating two things wrongly. The Pope can certainly speak out on sanctity of life and does so. The church teaches that abortion, e.g. is wrong. Now can you point out where the Church teaches that opposition to global warming theories is morally wrong?

Ishii
 
ishii said:
LeafByNiggle - The Pope can certainly speak out on sanctity of life and does so. The church teaches that abortion, e.g. is wrong. Now can you point out where the Church teaches that opposition to global warming theories is morally wrong?

Ishii
Click to expand...
I don’t disagree with you here, because the Pope does not need to refer to science to teach that abortion e.g. Is wrong. I only disagreed with PaulFromIowa’s implication that the bishops can be experts in certain kinds of science and not in others. But maybe that wasn’t his point after all, in which case I withdraw my comment.
 
A 30 second google search as I was on the phone, and I came up with this–

nypost.com/2013/12/05/global-warming-proof-is-evaporating/

This is just the tip of the (non-melting) iceberg. They still insist (by fiat if possible) that this is “settled science” though–“settled” meaning Big Brother approved.

They have to shut freedom of information and freedom of speech down to win this and all of their arguments–which they WILL do if allowed.

Don’t let this thread be stolen/spammed by mouth breather, Lefty, OLD talking points and extremely lame Lefty “humor”. Lefties never pay for lunch btw. They stick you with the bill–now THAT is settled science!
 
LeafByNiggle said:
Really? The bishops of the Church are that easily manipulated?
Click to expand...
Sometimes some of them are. They’re just men. As I mentioned previously in this thread (I think in this thread) I recall some USCCB bishop endorsing Obama’s gun control plan before Obama had even formulated it himself. Wrote a letter to congressmen supporting it before congressmen even knew what Obama was going to propose. As a Catholic, I found it both jaw-dropping and embarrassing.
 
Caldera599 said:
Don’t expect Americans to start caring about the environment anytime soon. Most pollution in the world comes from the United States, but they won’t lift a finger to fix it because they seemingly thing they have a right to pollute. Perhaps it’s time for some UN sanctions against the US like they did against Iran?
Click to expand...
Where do you come up with this rubbish, and where do you live?

In the US, the air is quite good. In fact, we don’t even make the top 10 list of polluted countries (below). We’ve also cleaned up our waterways and lakes.

Here are the 10 most polluted countries in the world.
  1. Pakistan Average PM2.5 pollution: 101 ug/m3
  2. Qatar Average PM2.5 pollution: 92 ug/m3
  3. Afghanistan Average PM2.5 pollution: 84 ug/m3
  4. Bangladesh Average PM2.5 pollution: 79 ug/m3
  5. Iran Average PM2.5 pollution: 76 ug/m3
  6. Egypt Average PM2.5 pollution: 74 ug/m3
  7. Mongolia Average PM2.5 pollution: 64 ug/m3
  8. United Arab Emirates Average PM2.5 pollution: 61 ug/m3
  9. India Average PM2.5 pollution: 59 ug/m3
  10. Bahrain Average PM2.5 pollution: 57 ug/m3
Don’t be such a stranger to facts in the future.

(ps. CO2 in an inert gas, not a pollutant)
 
LeafByNiggle said:
Really? The bishops of the Church are that easily manipulated?
Click to expand...
As Ridgerunner said (and as you already knew;)), “Sometimes some of them are. They’re just men.”

That’s how Jesus set up His Church; with human beings–beings who can be manipulated into believing anything. But that also is why the Holy Spirit led the Church to establish the discipline of avoiding entanglements with what is the competency of laymen. It often seems that the better a person is (such as a member of the clergy), the more naive he can be.

One would think the Oxford Dictionary had MMGW in mind when defining “manipulate”:
2.control or influence (a person or situation) cleverly, unfairly, or unscrupulously: “the masses were deceived and manipulated by a tiny group” OxfordDictionaries
 
The USA is the world’s second largest emitter of greenhouse gases.

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

And is the largest consumer of oil at 18,690,000 barrels of oil per day
 
KSU said:
As Ridgerunner said (and as you already knew;)), “Sometimes some of them are. They’re just men.”

That’s how Jesus set up His Church; with human beings–beings who can be manipulated into believing anything. But that also is why the Holy Spirit led the Church to establish the discipline of avoiding entanglements with what is the competency of laymen. It often seems that the better a person is (such as a member of the clergy), the more naive he can be.

One would think the Oxford Dictionary had MMGW in mind when defining “manipulate”:
2.control or influence (a person or situation) cleverly, unfairly, or unscrupulously: “the masses were deceived and manipulated by a tiny group” OxfordDictionaries
Click to expand...
If that is the position you are taking then I submit that the posters on CAF (like you and I) are “just men” or “just women”, and are also easily manipulated. And that manipulation can come from special interest propagandists like the Heartland Institute that spread misinformation about global warming using pseudo-science. What makes you think you are immune from such manipulation when even our bishops are not?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top