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Walt_Oliver
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Please stay on the topic of the thread and do not discuss other posters. Thank you for your cooperation.
Vatican evolution congress to exclude creationism, intelligent design
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buffalo
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StAnastasia
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Fr. Coyne is quite correct: Catholicism as a sacramental religion is creationist. “Creationism” – in the sense of the world being dependent for its very being upon someone or something outside itself – is an ancient doctrine, shared with us by Jews and Muslims. What is not ancient is the hostile takeover by Fundamentalists in the last century, who demanded that “creation” be interpreted only in their anti-scientific, young universe way.
StAnastasia
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edwest2
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That is a false statement. From Colonial times until the 1800s, reading from the King James Bible was allowed in public schools. There was little debate over the 7 days of Creation until Darwin’s book. It is Darwinism that has tried to take over and the Catholic Church is now examining whatever science may be behind the current version of the theory.
Peace,
Ed
Peace,
Ed
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StAnastasia
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Not true. Paleontologists knew about prehistoric extinction long before Darwin. The days of the literal six-day-creation were numbered once geologists began to uncover evidence of how old the earth is.
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edwest2
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Prior to mechanical devices that could provide information, dates were assumed, prior to the 1900s, to be whatever the viewer decided. Extinction is not a criteria for determining age. Entire species have gone extinct in recent times but are mostly unnoticed.
Peace,
Ed
Peace,
Ed
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StAnastasia
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I’ll go with the assumptions underlying the work of tens of thousands of biologists and other scientists, and of course, with what the popes who understand science have said.
I daresay the Vatican are not inviting Young Earth or Intelligent Design Creationists because they have nothing new to offer science. But I assume also that the conference will include theologians, philosophers, and scientists who assume the truth of “Creationism” in its ancient sense, the sense meant by Christopher Kaiser in his Creational theology and the history of physical science: the creationist tradition from Basil to Bohr. I may even try to go to Rome for this interesting conference.
StAnastasia
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JReducation
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These were the words of Pope Benedict XVI at the United Nations and at several other gatherings when he was in the United States. “True reason leads to faith”.
It actually makes sense if one stops and examines it from his theological perspective which is both Augustinian and Franciscan. The idea is that true reason will always lead to truth and only in truth can one find faith. If there is no rational assent to truth, there can can no assent to faith, because reason helps us understand what is revealed to us through faith. Therefore, those who reject reason, reject the possibility of a better understanding of their faith.
In this sense, bringing scientists together to discuss evolution is very Catholic. Hopefully what we will get out of this is reason that sheds a greater understanding of what has been revealed about God as Creator.
I believe that it’s also very Catholic because the Catholic Church has a long tradition of scholarship that dates back to the Fathers of the Church.
Fraternally,
JR
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JReducation
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I understand the whys of it all and I know about the Pontifical Council for Culture and where they stand. My statement is about the Holy See itself. I’m speculating why the Holy See is so supportive of this endeavor. It is just that, my speculation. I have no inside scoop. I wish I did.JR, I don’t agree with your statement. There aren’t any ‘creationists’ or ‘intelligent design people’ that are on the Vatican’s Scientific Advisory Committee. I hope that helps you understand the why’s of it all. Please try and understand that the Vatican Scientists don’t support creationism or proponents of the Intelligent Design Movement and apparently neither does Pontifical Council for Culture. Makes perfect sense to me.
Take care and may God’s peace be with you.
Fraternally,
JR
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StAnastasia
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You’re right. Saint Augustine said it is shameful when Christians are ignorant of science, because it makes Christianity look ridiculous in the eyes of the World. In other words, rejecting science leads to scandal.I believe that it’s also very Catholic because the Catholic Church has a long tradition of scholarship that dates back to the Fathers of the Church.
Fraternally,
JR
StAnastasia
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edwest2
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Cardinal Schoenborn:
“What frequently passes for modern science - with its heavy accretion of materialism and positivism - is simply wrong about nature in fundamental ways. Modern science is often, in the words of my essay, ‘ideology, not science.’”
firstthings.com/article.php3?id_article=71
True reason includes more than science.
Peace,
Ed
“What frequently passes for modern science - with its heavy accretion of materialism and positivism - is simply wrong about nature in fundamental ways. Modern science is often, in the words of my essay, ‘ideology, not science.’”
firstthings.com/article.php3?id_article=71
True reason includes more than science.
Peace,
Ed
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Namesake
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More correctly, almost everything. Origins are on the horizon, but not part of the science yet.
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Namesake
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You keep attacking science as though there is some reason people should reject science.
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Nickkname
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Maybe now some Catholics will finally see that creationism and intelligent design are silly beliefs, and embrace the Church’s teachings on creation
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reggieM
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I’m not one of those persons that think such about Mr. Darwin.
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edwest2
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First, science does not mean evolution. More properly, the word science refers to all fields of scientific endeavor. The field of electronics has nothing to do with evolution, for example. Yet the study of electricity has made heat, light and this computer possible.
Second, if you read Cardinal Schoenborn’s article, it is clear that science has become infected with ideology. In another article he calls it scientism. This is an inherently anti-theist approach to reality that excludes other areas of reason that we still need.
Like Cardinal Schoenborn, I am warning Catholics about this problem. At one time, I liked science (which means evolution in this sentence) but it has become a tool for ideologues who just want everyone to say yes. As time passes, and I reexamine it, I have become highly skeptical of it, partly due to comments made here.
Peace,
Ed
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reggieM
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One of the Church’s teachings is that nobody has to embrace evolutionary theory, and one can argue against it.Maybe now some Catholics will finally see that creationism and intelligent design are silly beliefs, and embrace the Church’s teachings on creation
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Nickkname
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Yes, I know that. It’s also the Church’s teaching that Catholics can embrace the theory of evolution, and argue for it.
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JReducation
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Actually, the Papacy has made no formal declaration on evolution in many years. There have been informal statements. The most resent being that evolution and faith are not in conflict. But it is not a teaching. I was a statement made by the Pope. A teaching is usually presented within a more stylized content such as a pastoral letter or encyclical.
It is true that it is mentioned the the Catechism of the Catholic Church. But what it says is that there is no conflict. It does not say exactly what the Church believes concerning evolution.
Fraternally,
JR
It is true that it is mentioned the the Catechism of the Catholic Church. But what it says is that there is no conflict. It does not say exactly what the Church believes concerning evolution.
Fraternally,
JR
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reggieM
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The Catholic Church has a very long tradition in teaching about God’s creation, going back to the Fathers of the Church (and before that to the Jewish Prophets) as well.
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