Vatican evolution congress to exclude creationism, intelligent design

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Some of the more dogmatic evolutionists are not willing to admit that there is anything more to be worked out at all (although the vast majority see no need to understand God’s role either).

I do not think it’s easy to reconcile evolutionary theory with Catholicism – at least as I see it. I’m open to any attempts to do that. Of all the Catholic Darwinists that I’ve encountered on CAF, I haven’t seen any that didn’t either struggle immensely with trying to reconcile the two, or else just have a very flimsy explaination (more like just ignoring the problem) on how they’re reconciled.
I’ve never met a biologist who doesn’t think there is a good deal more to be worked out about how evolution operates.🙂

As for thoughtful Catholic treatments of this question, I recommend a book by a brilliant and prayerful Franciscan Sister, whom I’ve had the pleasure of meeting at conferences: Sr. Ilia Delio, Christ in Evolution (Orbis, 2008) http://www.amazon.com/Christ-Evolut...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1224390942&sr=1-1

StAnastasia
 
There has been a consistent pattern in these discussions. Science is given immediate and definite credibility, doubts are ignored or debunked by force of words.

No matter how often Church documents like Human Persons Created in the Image of God or Humani Generis are brought up, the argument for perceived loopholes is brought up. Or the broken record repetitions begin, i.e. evolution is a fact.

This is a Catholic forum. The Catholic perspective should be preeminent. But God is just a footnote. The explanation revolves around how great the mind of man is and how much new, new knowledge we (meaning scientists) now have. It doesn’t appear to matter to those who repeat the same tired phrases about the glory of evolution and how “beautiful” it is but give no glory to God, who is added as a kind of sugar coating so that Catholics might more easily swallow the evolution “pill.”

Even Cardinal Schoenborn writing in the publication First Things has noticed the resistence of the defenders of evolution against the open and honest asking of questions. In the New York Times article, Finding Design in Nature, the Cardinal tells us Pope Benedict is not a satified evolutionist and that much of what passes as science today is actually ideology. But the defenders of evolution do not engage the substance of those comments lest their theory fall into the tiniest level of disrepute. This ‘united front’ approach fits an ideological movement better than it does real scientific inquiry.

Over the last 40 years, the Catholic Church has seen fewer people going to Church and gradually abandoning their day to day lives as Christians, replacing it with listening and acting according to the secular world.

Finally, those who profess science here are not simply saying, here is some information that we’d like to share with Catholics. On the contrary, if they meet any resistance, the strategy is to attack Genesis, the identity of Adam and Eve, Noah and the global flood. Whereas on the one hand they state science is a search that goes wherever the evidence may lead and always subject to revision, these theological matters and their debunking by science are set in concrete by them. No, none of it happened, they tell us. You’ve got it all wrong.

Well, are we, as Catholics, to listen to the Church which can and does guide us in our everyday lives, including providing us with a rational guide to viewing science and so-called modern developments, or do we listen to those who profess that the words of science are fact and self-evident, and especially regarding certain “stories” in the Bible, “proof” that science (though subject to change, paradoxically) is absolutely right about the Bible? Because that is what’s going on here. We’re right - you’re wrong.

Just like Christopher Hitchens (author of God Is Not Great) said in the National Catholic Register, he would be inclined to doubt the evidence of his own eyes if he saw a miracle. Why doubt? Why not express a scientific curiosity at least before thinking, no, I don’t believe that?

So regardless of the supposed mountains of interpretations, Pope Benedict, Cardinal Schoenborn and the Catholic Church in general is reaffirming the fact that science is not and cannot be the whole answer. That it operates with a strict naturalistic bias (which is fine and appropriate for observation and gathering facts), and that too many scientists have decided that the purely naturalistic explanations represent the whole of reality and reject God in the process. The atheists are now seizing the opportunity to say - it’s not just personal disbelief anymore, we’ve got science on our side and you can’t argue with the facts.

My brothers and sisters in Christ, heaven and earth may pass away but Christ tells us, my word will not pass away. That all things that are to be accomplished will be accomplished. And that this current manner of thinking and living is talked about in the Bible. We are living through a time when men will no longer endure sound doctrine.

God bless,
Ed
 
This is a Catholic forum. The Catholic perspective should be preeminent.
God bless,Ed
Precisely, Ed – that’s why I recommended you read Sr. Ilia Delio’s brilliant Christ in Evolution (Orbis, 2008).

StAnastasia
 
To StAnastasia -

I recommend you read this article by Cardinal Schoenborn:

query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9902EEDA1E31F934A35754C0A9639C8B63

It not only contains everything I believe but it is an accurate summary of the Church’s position and an accurate assessment of what currently passes for science. I agree with him not only because of his position in the Church and as one of the principal authors of the Catechism but because I’ve observed the same things he writes about.

Peace,
Ed
 
To StAnastasia -

I recommend you read this article by Cardinal Schoenborn:

query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9902EEDA1E31F934A35754C0A9639C8B63

It not only contains everything I believe but it is an accurate summary of the Church’s position and an accurate assessment of what currently passes for science. I agree with him not only because of his position in the Church and as one of the principal authors of the Catechism but because I’ve observed the same things he writes about.

Peace,
Ed
what an embarassment. no wonder the world snickers at us.
 
the world also laughed at the three stooges.
I make no apologies for the positions held by the Church. In fact, I think they actually help. They create somewhat of a “standard” if you will, that science has to confront.

It is when science oversteps its bounds there is an issue.
 
I make no apologies for the positions held by the Church. In fact, I think they actually help. They create somewhat of a “standard” if you will, that science has to confront.

It is when science oversteps its bounds there is an issue.
when I read terms like “darwist” or “neo-darwinism” – which are inaccurate, disrespectful and attempts at being condescending and used only by creationists – I always expect, and am never disappointed, to find another anti-science rant.

so unless you’re telling me that the cardinal speaks definitively for the church on this matter, his statement is an embarassment.
 
when I read terms like “darwist” or “neo-darwinism” – which are inaccurate, disrespectful and attempts at being condescending and used only by creationists – I always expect, and am never disappointed, to find another anti-science rant.

so unless you’re telling me that the cardinal speaks definitively for the church on this matter, his statement is an embarassment.
You’re implying the Cardinal was just casually putting down random, not fully considered ideas for the New York Times? One of the principle authors of the Catechism of the Catholic Church was just thinking out loud without thinking about what he was saying?

It’s time everyone respected the educated, careful choice of words and the proper response to too many people who are enthralled by the great and powerful mind of man that now worships at the church of science. This was a wake-up call to all Catholics who need to know that science has mutated into atheistic naturalism. And that too many scientists are getting out of their labs and yelling to America: Get off your knees! Worship man and his great mind! And that means us!

Peace,
Ed
 
You’re implying the Cardinal was just casually putting down random, not fully considered ideas for the New York Times? One of the principle authors of the Catechism of the Catholic Church was just thinking out loud without thinking about what he was saying?

It’s time everyone respected the educated, careful choice of words and the proper response to too many people who are enthralled by the great and powerful mind of man that now worships at the church of science. This was a wake-up call to all Catholics who need to know that science has mutated into atheistic naturalism. And that too many scientists are getting out of their labs and yelling to America: Get off your knees! Worship man and his great mind! And that means us!

Peace,
Ed
I’m saying that using buzzword insults like “neo-darwinist” or “darwinism” are clues that a rant is underway and that it degrades the substance of his argument by, oh, about 80%.

so, are you maintaining that the cardinal is speaking definitively for the church on this matter?
 
Yes, the Cardinal was speaking for the Church on this matter, carefully and with consideration and reflection. I think it is disrespectful to call the Cardinal’s writing a rant. A rant is typified by an emotional outburst where typing occurs, possibly followed by some thought, but often, the heck with thinking and careful consideration, I’m upset!

Peace,
Ed
 
Yes, the Cardinal was speaking for the Church on this matter, carefully and with consideration and reflection. I think it is disrespectful to call the Cardinal’s writing a rant. A rant is typified by an emotional outburst where typing occurs, possibly followed by some thought, but often, the heck with thinking and careful consideration, I’m upset!

Peace,
Ed
ed, that was an emotional outburst and the cardinal was on a rant. if I can discuss evolution v. creation without resorting to condescending terms for the opposition, so can the cardinal. I think.
 
when I read terms like “darwist” or “neo-darwinism” – which are inaccurate, disrespectful and attempts at being condescending and used only by creationists – I always expect, and am never disappointed, to find another anti-science rant.

so unless you’re telling me that the cardinal speaks definitively for the church on this matter, his statement is an embarassment.
It’s embarrassing as a Catholic to read Schoenborn writing such nonsense as “to date, no transitional fossils have been found.” Non-Catholic and atheist friends of mine ask me why I would continue in a church that includes people so scientifically ignorant. I reply that the Church is far bigger than one uninformed cardinal. After all, it is our God who created this dynamic and evolving universe!👍

StAnastasia
 
To StAnastasia,

That remark about the Cardinal was disrespectful. Ignorance of the Bible is ignorance of Christ. Amateur theology does not disprove the work of God. Adding the word God to evolution does not make it automatically acceptable.

“Blessed are they who have not seen but believed.”

Peace,
Ed
 
To StAnastasia,

That remark about the Cardinal was disrespectful. Ignorance of the Bible is ignorance of Christ. Amateur theology does not disprove the work of God. Adding the word God to evolution does not make it automatically acceptable.

“Blessed are they who have not seen but believed.”

Peace,
Ed
the cardinal’s amateur science doesn’t stand him well at all. it makes him look foolish and embarasses all Cathlolics.
 
To StAnastasia,That remark about the Cardinal was disrespectful. Ignorance of the Bible is ignorance of Christ. Amateur theology does not disprove the work of God. Adding the word God to evolution does not make it automatically acceptable.“Blessed are they who have not seen but believed.”
Peace,Ed
Ed. it’s not disrespectful to cal a priest on the carpet for abusing his altar boys. It’s not disrespectful to call a cardinal on the carpet for lying about there being no transitional fossils, when in fact the world’s natural history museums are crammed full of them!

StAnastasia
 
Ed. it’s not disrespectful to cal a priest on the carpet for abusing his altar boys. It’s not disrespectful to call a cardinal on the carpet for lying about there being no transitional fossils, when in fact the world’s natural history museums are crammed full of them!

StAnastasia
So there is no longer a need for punctuated equilibrium?
 
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