Vatican 'Horrified' by Criticism from Germany ... Some even think the pope could resign

  • Thread starter Thread starter vs_trumpet
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
V

vs_trumpet

Guest
spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,605714,00.html

As frustrated as the pope may be about the continuing debate, at least one Vatican insider thinks Benedict may even consider turning in his resignation. Father Eberhard von Gemmingen, head of the German language staff at Radio Vatican, said the pope “has his back to the wall,” in comments to German radio. “As I know the pope,” he said, "then it is certainly possible that he has thought to himself: ‘At some point I might have to step down so that the papacy is respected.’"

May the pope be given wisdom, courage and humility in discerning and following G-d’s will in all matters.
 
The idea that the pope might step down over this is ridiculous. That “vatican insider” doesn’t know what he’s talking about. The pope did a good thing, working to restore unity in the Church.
 
It’s very apparent that the words from Merkel and others indicate their deep-seated resentment of the Catholic Church. Their blatant disrespect for the Pope and his actions is an attempt to silence him and other Church leaders so that they won’t criticize Merkel and other government leaders for their immoral actions.
 
Just an observasion here.

I find it funny how people will run with what a “vatican insider” says when it agrees with what they believe or want but then denounce another “vatican insider” when it goes against.

As for this one though, if John Paul II did not resign over the sex abuse scandal, something that, IMHO, was a greater scandal than this one (if you can even call this a scandal), then I highly doubt that Benedict has even thought about resigning.

As Neil_Anthony said, this appears to be a good thing in an effort to work towards Church unity. Now the next step is for the SSPX to enter into talks with Rome and to enter into communion. If that does not occur then we can revisit if what the pope did was a good thing when all is said and done.
 
This whole thing is a misunderstanding! The world misunderstanding the Pope, and the faithful misunderstanding Ms Merkel.
 
For heaven’s sake, as German Chancellor, Angela Merkel could hardly say nothing about the situation.
 
I think Pope Benedict caused more controversy with the Muslims than this. I highly doubt he will resign.
 
grampben said:
That she is a ‘godless liberal who hates the church’ etc.
Click to expand...
That’s what this whole mess is about. Anti-Catholicism.

“The media have no idea what a real Catholic is. If they did, they would scream for his martyrdom, they would scream for his skin.”
Bishop Williamson in 2005

Let them scream bloody murder.:mad:
 
Kaninchen said:
For heaven’s sake, as German Chancellor, Angela Merkel could hardly say nothing about the situation.
Click to expand...
Perhaps I’m ignorant, but why? What does the German government have to do with any of this? All she needed to do was say “I have no comment on how the Catholic Church manages its personnel issues.” Instead, she went on the offensive.

I’m still flabbergasted at the ruckus and I’m no Holocaust denier. The excommunication of these guys was for the schism they committed. The pope addressed that and ONLY that in considering lifting the excommunication.

Whether the bishop in question is fit for the loony bin is not pertinent to the issue over which he was excommunicated. Lifting of the sanction is NOT an endorsement of anything and everything these bishops have ever said. Period.
 
manualman said:
Perhaps I’m ignorant, but why?
Click to expand...
It’s German history as well as Jewish history that Williamson is denying and, as the Chancellor of Germany, she had every right to request that the Vatican made itself clear. The fact that German neo-Nazis might (and would) claim that holocaust denial was ok because a holocaust denier had been welcomed back into the Church might, indeed, be wrong but it wouldn’t stop them doing it.

Just because (certain) Catholics may consider a particular action to be of only internal consequence doesn’t mean that they can demand that everybody else accepts their position, certainly without clarification.

The Vatican is not a wholly owned subsidiary of any other entity but other entities are not wholly owned subsidiaries of the Vatican either.
 
Post WWII Germans have been conditioned to over react dramatically when confronting anything that smacks vaguely of Holocaust denial, IMO.🤷
What we have here is a failure to communicate, thus creating much misunderstanding, and when added to grandstanding there is chaos.
 
Kaninchen said:
It’s German history as well as Jewish history that Williamson is denying and, as the Chancellor of Germany, she had every right to request that the Vatican made itself clear. The fact that German neo-Nazis might (and would) claim that holocaust denial was ok because a holocaust denier had been welcomed back into the Church might, indeed, be wrong but it wouldn’t stop them doing it.

Just because (certain) Catholics may consider a particular action to be of only internal consequence doesn’t mean that they can demand that everybody else accepts their position, certainly without clarification.

The Vatican is not a wholly owned subsidiary of any other entity but other entities are not wholly owned subsidiaries of the Vatican either.
Click to expand...
Sorry, but no. It is a ridiculous double standard. Does the nation of Germany investigate every utterance of every citizen who applies for renewal of an expired passport? Does a German who moves to the Bahammas and moves back a few year later get interrogated as to his views on any and all potentially relevant matters before he is allowed back in the country? Of course not.

Excommunication is nothing more than a disciplinary action taken against someone for eggregious offenses committed against the Church. When and if those offenses are resolved in some matter, the excommunication is lifted. It is not anything more than that. And it takes nothing more than bare literacy to learn this fact.
 
manualman said:
Sorry, but no.
Click to expand...
Sorry, but yes.
It is a ridiculous double standard. Does the nation of Germany investigate every utterance of every citizen who applies for renewal of an expired passport? Does a German who moves to the Bahammas and moves back a few year later get interrogated as to his views on any and all potentially relevant matters before he is allowed back in the country? Of course not.
Click to expand...
If they were holocaust deniers, there’d be an awful lot of fuss. No double standard at all, in other words.
Excommunication is nothing more than a disciplinary action taken against someone for eggregious offenses committed against the Church. When and if those offenses are resolved in some matter, the excommunication is lifted. It is not anything more than that. And it takes nothing more than bare literacy to learn this fact.
Click to expand...
As I said before, the fact that you believe that it’s only of internal significance doesn’t make it so. The German Government doesn’t take orders from the Vatican any more than the Vatican takes orders from the German Government.
 
The German Chancellor is a woman of prestige equal to if not greater than the pope. Though she is the daughter of a Lutheran minister, if not the letter than at least the spirit of the church law can give us an understanding of how the church should by its own understanding should receive humbly the criticism of the German Chancellor

CIC 212.3 “According to the knowledge, competence, and prestige which they possess, they [the Christian faithful] have the right and even at times the duty to manifest to the sacred pastors [up to and including the pope] their opinion on matters which pertain to the good of the Church and to make their opinion known to the rest of the Christian faithful, without prejudice to the integrity of faith and morals, with reverence toward their pastors, and attentive to common advantage and the dignity of persons.”
translation etc borrowed from

The German Chancellor asked the pope to do more personally to make explicit that holocaust revisionism on what means were used, who was responsible, and scale is not acceptable for Catholics. The pope met her 1/6 of the way by permitting an unsigned statement of the Vatican Secretariat of State be published which for better or worse did not require of any Catholic, including the bishop Williamson, to reject those things as a condition of full communion:

“The pope is demanding a retraction from Williamson not as a pre-condition to full communion, but rather, as a pre-condition to higher function in the Church.”

Often overlooked is the German Chancellor’s request that the pope do other things such as make clear “a positive association with Judaism as a whole.” Given the pope’s statement that interreligious dialogue is impossible, it is not surprising that the pope has not fulfilled this part of her request.

Even in ages when the church had more power, the secular powers exerted influence on the church with some even having veto power over conclaves. The world is interconnected today and if the Holy See is to remain internationally recognized as the juridical equivalent of a state it must as a member of the international community act responsibly and no that what it does has repercussions not only internally but externally. We demand that Islamic leaders denounce certain things; we should demand the same of Catholic leaders. To their credit, some have risen to that challenge. In some dioceses, bishops have agreed to meet with Jewish leaders. One of these bishops is Herr Ratzinger.
 
opiemuyo said:
Post WWII Germans have been conditioned to over react dramatically when confronting anything that smacks vaguely of Holocaust denial, IMO.🤷
What we have here is a failure to communicate, thus creating much misunderstanding, and when added to grandstanding there is chaos.
Click to expand...
I think it is important to know what happened. But reacting dramatically no. My third and fourth grade teacher would tell us of the horrors of the Holocaust. But I will say it never got to me to the point of over reacting.
 
vs_trumpet said:
The German Chancellor is a woman of prestige equal to if not greater than the pope.
Click to expand...
What on earth are you saying??? Are you serious? Please, don’t make me laugh. I couldn’t care any less what this Chancellor may say. I don’t even remember her name. Be serious, how many people are going to remember her once she leaves this world, and home many will remember our Pope? I don’t know anything about her, so I cannot judge her, but put her on the same level as our Pope, you have to be kidding. Nonsense.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top