Vatican makes attempted ordination of Women a grave crime

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Via_Dolorosa said:
Here is more information. I hesitated to cite the Huffington Post for obvious reasons.

huffingtonpost.com/2010/07/15/vatican-ordination-of-wom_n_647296.html
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Thank you that was much more informative than the other articles. Mainly since those who try to attempt woman’s ordination are automatically excommunicated, but now the priest/bishop could also be defrocked.

I think why these are in the same document is because it is giving the CDF the authority to investigate and defrock in all these kinds of cases. It is like in a police station you have one division investigating both kidnapping and fraud causes. obviously they are not saying that kidnapping is equal to fraud but rather that the division which investigates fraud has the right tools and expertise to investigate kidnapping.
Scicluna defended the inclusion of both sex abuse and ordination of women in the same document as a way of codifying two of the most serious canonical crimes against sacraments and morals that the congregation deals with. Also included are other sacramental crimes, including desecrating the Eucharist and – for the first time – heresy, apostasy and schism.
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Clerical abuse is “an egregious violation of moral law,” Scicluna said. “An attempted ordination of a woman is grave, but on another level: It is a wound, it is an attempt against the Catholic faith on the sacrament of (holy) orders. So they are grave, but on different levels.”
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The Huffington post
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I would have thought this would have been more noteworthy:
Art. 7
§ 1. A criminal action for delicts reserved to the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith is extinguished by prescription after twenty years, with due regard to the right of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith to derogate from prescription in individual cases.
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Especially since I think the thing about women’s attempted ordinations is actually old news from 2007, if I understand the document correctly. But the MSM seems to prefer anything that makes the Church look bad.
 
GraceSofia said:
I would have thought this would have been more noteworthy:

Especially since I think the thing about women’s attempted ordinations is actually old news from 2007, if I understand the document correctly. But the MSM seems to prefer anything that makes the Church look bad.
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The Vatican just made another statement on this a few days ago. That is what the thread is referring to.
 
Via_Dolorosa said:
I guess I just don’t understand why these two issues are addressed in the same paper. It doesn’t make sense to me.
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There is someone on the radio explaining that for our local diocese right now. There was an update to several of the Canons, something which is done at various times, one of these changes dealt with ordination of women and one added disabled adults to a canon already in existence. The media jumped on these two and, as usual, jumped to conclusions. He also explained why Canon Law doesn’t impose going to the police with every case – and it’s because Canon Law is universal and there are many countries where going to the police with an accusation could be a death sentence, for either or both the accuser and the accused, without so much as a trial.
 
Via_Dolorosa said:
I guess I just don’t understand why these two issues are addressed in the same paper. It doesn’t make sense to me.
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That seemed quite odd to me as well. The abuse of children is utterly abhorrent. On the other hand, I suspect that in future years there will be serious discussions about married priest as well as female priests. The church hierarchy may believe the ordination of women is a serious crime against the church now, but that stance might change in the future. However, there will never ever be any question that child abuse is repugnant and evil.
 
Not a crime.

You won’t go to jail.
If, however, disobedience is a sin …

On the other hand, you might go to h*ll.

[are we allowed to say that?]
 
Holly3278 said:
Good! It should have already been a grave crime!
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"Terry Sanderson, called the document “one of the most insulting and misogynistic pronouncements that the Vatican has made for a very long time. Why any self-respecting
woman would want to remain part of an organisation that regards their full and equal participation as a ‘grave sin’ is a mystery to me.”
 
StAnastasia said:
"Terry Sanderson, called the document “one of the most insulting and misogynistic pronouncements that the Vatican has made for a very long time. Why any self-respecting
woman would want to remain part of an organisation that regards their full and equal participation as a ‘grave sin’ is a mystery to me.”
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I guess it would depend what you’d call “full/equal participation”. The canon requiring us to attend mass actually says “participate at”, so we are participating at each mass (for 1, at the point where you say “May the Lord accept the sacrifice at your hand…”, you are enabling the priest to make the sacrifice on your behalf, along with everyone else who says it. That’s participation).

It has nothing to do with participation and everything to do with perceived social status. It’s the typical ultra-feminist view that if women aren’t doing exactly everything men are doing then there’s something wrong. They should really be focusing on engineering. There are some disciplines where men outnumber women by 3 to 1 or more. In my university, the number of male to female students in engineering physics is 29:1 (yes, that is also the full number of students in the class). Over the entire faculty, the ratio 3.8:1. But apparently promoting more female engineers isn’t controversial enough for them.
 
Monte_RCMS said:
Not a crime.

You won’t go to jail.
If, however, disobedience is a sin …

On the other hand, you might go to h*ll.

[are we allowed to say that?]
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It might be a crime, but only within the city limits of the Vatican City.

Don’t know if they have a jail.

I guess if it IS a crime, they would give you a ticket and send you to your hotel room.
 
Monte_RCMS said:
It might be a crime, but only within the city limits of the Vatican City. Don’t know if they have a jail. I guess if it IS a crime, they would give you a ticket and send you to your hotel room.
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You would not collect $200 as you pass “Go.”
 
Apparently, the church has forgotten the “legend” of sexually active Pope Joan in the 10th or 11th century. Are there too many details of this person’s existence among chroniclers for it to be a legend? Why do the Popes avoid a certain street during processions? Has anyone ever X-rayed the bust of Pope Zacharias to see whether her image remains after apparent revision of the bust to obliterate and revise her image to that of a man?

Just curious.
 
Hoosiercommons said:
Apparently, the church has forgotten the “legend” of sexually active Pope Joan in the 10th or 11th century. Are there too many details of this person’s existence among chroniclers for it to be a legend? Why do the Popes avoid a certain street during processions? Has anyone ever X-rayed the bust of Pope Zacharias to see whether her image remains after apparent revision of the bust to obliterate and revise her image to that of a man?

Just curious.
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This has been de-bunked for centuries, even by Protestant historians. Total waste of your posting time.
 
Christopher68 said:
That seemed quite odd to me as well. The abuse of children is utterly abhorrent. On the other hand, I suspect that in future years there will be serious discussions about married priest as well as female priests. The church hierarchy may believe the ordination of women is a serious crime against the church now, but that stance might change in the future. However, there will never ever be any question that child abuse is repugnant and evil.
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Possibly you don’t recall that Pope John Paul II said this will NEVER happen.
 
Flame4 said:
Good. Now its time to hear those who support female ordination whine.
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From my cousin, a Catholic woman in her 70s:

“Is that any different than not passing an amendment to the constitution that women are equal? I think some men get their feeling of masculinity by putting down women. It took time to realize that African Americans are people like you and me. It will take time for men to realize the talent and value of women.”
 
There are some good women priests, I don’t see why the Catholic church considers it a grave crime.

There’s a shortage of Catholic priests, I think that ordination of women might be good thing.

Even Paul said there is no male or female in Christ.
 
JadeStarr said:
There are some good women priests, I don’t see why the Catholic church considers it a grave crime. There’s a shortage of Catholic priests, I think that ordination of women might be good thing. Even Paul said there is no male or female in Christ.
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From my elderly Catholic cousin again:

“In other denominations women are serving as priests. The Catholics will eventually come around as they have with many things. With the shortage of priests and bringing in married Episcopalians as priests they will be pressured into it or start losing parishes because of the lack of spiritual leaders. I still say it is not limited to the church. Men have always had a problem with women having a position of authority. If the Catholic Church doesn’t change many of its rules, such as celibate priests (already gone by the wayside with the Episcopal priests), birth control (not adhered to in the U.S. and other parts of the world), it will lose. The Pope sits in Rome and spouts off all the things people are supposed to do but more and more people do what they want and what seems practical. The woman priest is not too far in the future I think.”
 
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