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pnewton
Guest
That would be God that made this elementary error that you see.
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StAnastasia
Guest
No, it was the male staff of the Hebrew scribal community who could not see beyond their maleness in writing stories about an all make-Godhead.
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StAnastasia
Guest
Correction: “an all-male Godhead”
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pnewton
Guest
If you believe the Bible is a man-made story, then the differences here are too great to find common ground.
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Tantum_ergo
Guest
No offense I hope, but you mean the Holy Spirit was ‘powerless’ in the face of these sexist ‘scribes?’
When you look at how Scripture presents St. Peter’s denials in all their excruciating (and humiliating) detail, and when you look at how Esther, for example, is extolled for HER role in saving the Jewish people, you have to wonder.
If there’s so much ‘corruption’ and bias, how come it appears to be limited only to ‘gender’? If the men are all out to prove male superiority, why weren’t incidents of being ‘evil’ given solely to women, while the men were presented as all-holy?
The ‘sexism’ of the scribes is a very ‘modern’ view. . .but then again, the idea that there is any particular ‘element’ we cannot trust about ‘revealed’ Scripture but must look to the ‘enlightened’ ones to explain all harks back to a very early problem in the Church. It appears to me to be a type of Neo-Gnosticism.
When you look at how Scripture presents St. Peter’s denials in all their excruciating (and humiliating) detail, and when you look at how Esther, for example, is extolled for HER role in saving the Jewish people, you have to wonder.
If there’s so much ‘corruption’ and bias, how come it appears to be limited only to ‘gender’? If the men are all out to prove male superiority, why weren’t incidents of being ‘evil’ given solely to women, while the men were presented as all-holy?
The ‘sexism’ of the scribes is a very ‘modern’ view. . .but then again, the idea that there is any particular ‘element’ we cannot trust about ‘revealed’ Scripture but must look to the ‘enlightened’ ones to explain all harks back to a very early problem in the Church. It appears to me to be a type of Neo-Gnosticism.
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StAnastasia
Guest
You’re wrong – the Bible is not a man-made story.
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pnewton
Guest
I did not say it was. You may want to slow down your reading and be more careful.
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StAnastasia
Guest
I’m very careful; that’s the nature of theology!
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rlg94086
Guest
I stepped away for a little bit…did I miss any great, careful theological discourse with citations from the Bible and/or Church Fathers regarding the Holy Spirit’s supposed feminine nature?
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Via_Dolorosa
Guest
This is why we, as Catholics, do not take the bible literally. an old joke from the site stated:
Political Jokes http://z.about.comhttp://z.about.comBush and the Bible: A Letter to George Bush
Dear President Bush,
Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God’s Law. I have learned a great deal from you and understand why you would propose and support a constitutional amendment banning same sex marriage. As you said “in the eyes of God marriage is based between a man a woman.” I try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that *Leviticus 18:22 *clearly states it to be an abomination… End of debate.
I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some other elements of God’s Laws and how to follow them.
1. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can’t I own Canadians?
2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?
3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanness - Lev.15: 19-24. The problem is how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.
4. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is, my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?
5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2. clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself, or should I ask the police to do it?
6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don’t agree. Can you settle this? Are there ‘degrees’ of abomination?
**7. **Lev.21:20 states that I may ! not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle- room here?
**8. **Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?
**9. **I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?
10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev.19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? Lev.24:10-16. Couldn’t we just burn them to death at a private family affair, like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)
I know you have studied these things extensively and thus enjoy considerable expertise in such matters, so I am confident you can help.
Thank you again for reminding us that God’s word is eternal and unchanging.
Political Jokes http://z.about.comhttp://z.about.comBush and the Bible: A Letter to George Bush
Dear President Bush,
Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God’s Law. I have learned a great deal from you and understand why you would propose and support a constitutional amendment banning same sex marriage. As you said “in the eyes of God marriage is based between a man a woman.” I try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that *Leviticus 18:22 *clearly states it to be an abomination… End of debate.
I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some other elements of God’s Laws and how to follow them.
1. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can’t I own Canadians?
2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?
3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanness - Lev.15: 19-24. The problem is how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.
4. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is, my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?
5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2. clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself, or should I ask the police to do it?
6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don’t agree. Can you settle this? Are there ‘degrees’ of abomination?
**7. **Lev.21:20 states that I may ! not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle- room here?
**8. **Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?
**9. **I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?
10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev.19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? Lev.24:10-16. Couldn’t we just burn them to death at a private family affair, like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)
I know you have studied these things extensively and thus enjoy considerable expertise in such matters, so I am confident you can help.
Thank you again for reminding us that God’s word is eternal and unchanging.
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rlg94086
Guest
What in the world does this have to do with the thread? [that is a rhetorical question, since anyone can see it has no relation whatsoever.]
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Via_Dolorosa
Guest
If memory serves me someone, maybe you, are asking for biblical references to prove a point. The point I’m trying to make is that we, as Catholics, don’t always take the bible literally. I know the post is silly. It does, however, make the point.
[that is a rhetorical question, since anyone can see it has no relation whatsoever.]
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rlg94086
Guest
I asked for Biblical and/or Church Fathers. That is what our faith is based on - Bible and Tradition. If you can’t cite something from those sources, an encyclical will do. Anything? You made the charge that the “all-male Trinity” is “one model of God.” Where does the other “model” come from? Science Fiction/Fantasy writers? Comedians? Heretics? Oh yeah…probably the latter.
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curlycool89
Guest
Isn’t that funny, eh? There’s all these women “bishop’s” running around claiming that they were properly “consecrated” and claim apostolic succession, and yet they refuse to name where their lineage comes from. What are the chances that not only is it a sham (they aren’t priests no matter who laid hands on them), but it’s also all theatrics and that there was no originating male bishop? What are the chances that it’s just a bunch of disgruntled women angry at God?
It all comes from the fact that the Spirit is God, and we always refer to God in male terms (because that’s how God revealed Himself. So Moses would have heard a deep male voice for example I would guess (it is not strictly required that He sounded like Morgan Freeman
). The Trinity is one and inseparable.
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catharina
Guest
If I ever think I “need” your advice about anything,
I’ll be certain to ask for it. (Don’t hold your breath while waiting … .)
Did the above make you giggle?
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Via_Dolorosa
Guest
I didn’t make that statement. Our faith is based on bible and tradition but I still contend we do not take the bible literally. Jesus used parable and metaphors so people would understand and apply his teachings. Get a grip on yourself.I asked for Biblical and/or Church Fathers. That is what our faith is based on - Bible and Tradition. If you can’t cite something from those sources, an encyclical will do. Anything? You made the charge that the “all-male Trinity” is “one model of God.” Where does the other “model” come from? Science Fiction/Fantasy writers? Comedians? Heretics? Oh yeah…probably the latter.
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Eric_Hilbert
Guest
Remain on topic please
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Via_Dolorosa
Guest
What difference would it make to anyone’s faith if the the Holy Spirit were female. Does this cause anyone distress. I have never in my life even thought about the gender of the Holy Spirit or, for that matter, if the Holy Spirit even had a gender.
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rlg94086
Guest
My apologies. I got you confused with St Anastasia, since you referenced my call for a biblical citation in response to her post. I’m still waiting for her response, but the thread has nothing to do with a literal interpretation of the Bible.
Since our faith is based on Bible and Tradition, there is no way that we can ordain women - the Church’s hands are tied. I’m guessing the tie-in with the feminizing of the Holy Spirit was directed towards women’s roles in the Church.
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rlg94086
Guest
That is a pretty low bar, when it comes to theological questions. Anyway, I’m guessing the reason it came up (I didn’t bring it up) is due to argument for female clergy. It obviously causes some people distress to have an all-male Trinity and/or all-male priesthood.
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