Vatican official suggests reconsidering Communion in the hand

[Miles_Mariae]

Giving both of you the benefit of the doubt that you are telling the truth-

Brendan’s claim proves that it is not impossible to distribute Communion on the tongue without touching the tongue. This is to say, it proves that it is possible by the fact that it has been done.

Eilish, for the priest to tell you that it is “impossible” to distribute Communion without touching the tongue is not a claim he can make. All he can say is that he’s never seen it done, or never been able to do it himeslf, but he cannot make a claim about whether it is possible. This is because “impossible” is a universal negative which cannot be proven with a particular instance. Convincing yourself of this fact will be left as an exercise for the reader.

If we give neither of you the benefit of the doubt, then neither of you has proven anything.

 

[japhy]

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD. My tongue has been touched by a finger on occasion when I receive Holy Communion. It’s a freaking accident, it happens either because I’m taller than the minister, or I don’t have my tongue out properly, or the minister just doesn’t know how to place it on my tongue without touching me. (Sometimes the minister is a priest, sometimes it is a layman.)

It’s an accident. It happens. Please stop attacking each other over it.

That being said, it did NOT happen when I received on the tongue while kneeling at Mater Ecclesiae.

 

[Eilish_Maura]

Giving both of you the benefit of the doubt that you are telling the truth-

Brendan’s claim proves that it is not impossible to distribute Communion on the tongue without touching the tongue. This is to say, it proves that it is possible by the fact that it has been done.

Eilish, for the priest to tell you that it is “impossible” to distribute Communion without touching the tongue is not a claim he can make. All he can say is that he’s never seen it done, or never been able to do it himeslf, but he cannot make a claim about whether it is possible. This is because “impossible” is a universal negative which cannot be proven with a particular instance. Convincing yourself of this fact will be left as an exercise for the reader.

If we give neither of you the benefit of the doubt, then neither of you has proven anything.

I have said that the priest(s) have indicated that it is impossible to totally avoid touching the tongue at all times - NOT that it is impossible not to touch the tongue.

It does happen sometimes - not all the time - and reasons it happens varies.



The ‘proof’ being offered is at best anecdotal - and that is what has been rejected on several occasions as being no proof at all for these boards.

That is when it has not been called a complete fabrication.

 

[Joannm]

Sometimes it is the fault of the one receiving. We had one man in my last parish who actually grabed onto your fingers with his lips when he received. He did this with the priests and EMs alike. We asked the priests to talk to him about how to receive properly but none of them wanted to talk to him.

 

[pnewton]

We asked the priests to talk to him about how to receive properly but none of them wanted to talk to him.

If we ever drop all communion in the hand, I would hope that instruction both to the reason and the method, would be given to the faithful. I know that our priest does this sort of thing and usually the diocese sends instructions to be passed on. I still wouldn’t count on communion in the hand being abbrogated though.

 

[Brendan]

. Please stop attacking each other over it.

.

This is simply disagreement. I have not seen any person attacks here at all, simply the present\counter-present of a reasoned adult debate.

Do I feel personally attacked because Eilish disagrees with my position, of course not. And she certainly seems adult enough that I can count on her to feel the same.

 

[brotherhrolf]

If we ever drop all communion in the hand, I would hope that instruction both to the reason and the method, would be given to the faithful. I know that our priest does this sort of thing and usually the diocese sends instructions to be passed on. I still wouldn’t count on communion in the hand being abbrogated though.

Pnewton, my friend. I can tell you when the communion rails were taken away in the 70s and, yes, I do remember instruction as to why this was being done and how were were to come up for communion. When I joined my cathedral parish in 83, I barely remember sometime later on in the 80s when the instruction to receive in the hand came down. There was no great rush in my parish to adopt this way and, to this day, the majority of us receive on the tongue. Given that there are still significant numbers of us who grew up before V II and cannot conceive of receiving in the hand (I mean that on a very personal level. It was my choice and I decided never to do it because it would be turning my back on that which I had been taught), why is everyone treating communion in the hand as some sort of inalienable right when the practice itself is only twenty years old? And, I might add, it is not part of the practice of the Church Universal but restricted to English speaking countries.

 

[pnewton]

why is everyone treating communion in the hand as some sort of inalienable right when the practice itself is only twenty years old.

Let me add that because I do not think it will be changed doesn’t mean I question my rights in the least. I like communion in the hand only because of my background, namely Baptist. I have started receiving on the tongue when I need to (carrying a child). I am sure I would eventually get where it seemed less awkward and irreverant. I sure wouldn’t kill me to stretch a little.

 

[brotherhrolf]

Well, my friend, between the two of us, we have brought out something that may shed some light. When I made my First Communion back in '58, we were actually taught how to receive on the tongue. Not using unconsecrated hosts, but the readily available Necco Wafer candy which is surprisingly still manufactured:

tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:rI-SJzg6jOuLeM:http://bp3.blogger.com/lDeF-fnewU/RsxzXJR1HNI/AAAAAAAAAB0/fWz3rH9Y7JA/s320/2137.jpg

It was drilled into us the sacred nature of what we were to receive and our unworthiness to receive it. We were read stories of the marytrs who died rather than let a host be profaned. The entire time I was a kid in Catholic school - even through high school it was emphasized to us that one did not receive the Eucharist unworthily. For the host to touch my hands…quite simply I cannot conceive of it. Not from being “holier than thou” but from years and years of training.

You posted some really illuminating words…“awkward and irreverant”. Awkward, certainly…many of the folks my age have forgotten that we had to practice with those Necco Wafers. And, I can see how you might view it as being irreverant - humans with their mouths open like baby birds being fed except that that was one of the images we were shown way back when in preparation for communion. I could also show some Northwest Coast Native American masks and some Polynesian masks in which the tongue is stuck out and is aggresive. So, your point is well made.

For me? I would prefer to kneel as I did when I was a child. I do believe that the sanctity - body, blood, soul and divinity of Our Lord Jesus Christ has suffered. But is that a fault of the means of reception or is it the fault of improper catechisis?

 

[pnewton]

Well, my friend, between the two of us, we have brought out something that may shed some light. When I made my First Communion back in '58, we were actually taught how to receive on the tongue. Not using unconsecrated hosts, but the readily available Necco Wafer candy which is surprisingly still manufactured:

tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:rI-SJzg6jOuLeM:http://bp3.blogger.com/lDeF-fnewU/RsxzXJR1HNI/AAAAAAAAAB0/fWz3rH9Y7JA/s320/2137.jpg

Oh my gosh, does that bring back memories. By the way, Happy Fat Tuesday. I think I will step out and enjoy a last cigar. I just wish I had some Necco wafers to go with it.

 

[brotherhrolf]

And a happy Mardi Gras to you too! Those Necco’s came in handy when I was senior altar boy and training new members on my team.

 

[palmas85]

Be prepared to be told that such accounts will not be ‘proof’ - unless some here are just pulling that nonsense on me.

When you make a blanket statement as you did that plenty of priests report it happening it raises questions. Who did these plenty of priests report it to? Where was it reported? When was it reported? You made it sound like the practice is constant ongoing and a problem so great that many priests speak out about it.

Simply throwing a statement out there like you often do naturally raises questions. In the instant case I have never heard a Priest report it happening and in 54 years of receiving on the tongue it has never happened to me. I doubt that I am unique in that regard. I really don’t. Hey you don’t care for the practice, thats fine and dandy. Receive in the hand as long as it is allowed. I don’t have a problem with it. Thats on you.

Elish, you seem to think that when you make outrageous statements we are to accept them unconditionally. Almost as if you have some lock on truth and sincerity and no one should doubt anything you say or even disagree with your opinion.

Why? Especially when you have proven beyond any shadow of a doubt that you have a definite agenda on this forum concerning the Traditional Mass and Traditional Catholicism in general, as well as in other forums…

Don’t be surprised if you are called upon to defend your statements. It happens. Why does that bother you so much?

It happens to the rest of us, quite often I might add, so why should you deserve special treatment?

Happy Mardi Gras!

 

[palmas85]

And a happy Mardi Gras to you too! Those Necco’s came in handy when I was senior altar boy and training new members on my team.

Neccos, boy thats going back a long way. I bet most people today don’t even know what they are.

Hope you had a great Mardi Gras. I did, hooked up with my sons family, daughter, grandkids and assorted other family members down at 2nd and St, Charles, It was great. Real family oriented and none of the trash that gets publicized so much.

Don’t be late for Mass tomorrow.

 

[Miles_Mariae]

The ‘proof’ being offered is at best anecdotal - and that is what has been rejected on several occasions as being no proof at all for these boards.

That is when it has not been called a complete fabrication.

Correct. Every time you post "my friend who is a priest told me " without citing any teaching, it is purely anecdotal and unworthy of much attention in a debate. It’s about time you realized!

 

[Uncle_Norbert]

No one touches anyone’s tongue in the process.

I don’t know where you get that silly idea.

From many years as an altar server back in the late sixties and through the seventies…I’ve seen probably tens of thousands of hosts administered (use your favorite appopriate term here).

I’ve seen fat tongues, skinny tongues, long ones, short ones, bright red ones, slimy whitish ones…tongues stuck WAY out, some barely past the lips…you name it.

It depended not only on the priest, but on the communicant, as to whether tongues got touched…but yes, indeedy, tongues got touched. No doubt about it!

 

[Uncle_Norbert]

Correct. Every time you post "my friend who is a priest told me " without citing any teaching, it is purely anecdotal and unworthy of much attention in a debate. It’s about time you realized!

It cracks me up when people outright reject “anecdotal” information, as if somehow reality observed doesn’t exist.

 

[Uncle_Norbert]

Documentation please if you have any.

I doubt you do, but we’ll see,

Do you really expect that the Mother Church wastes it’s resources documenting cases of priests fingers touching communnicants tongues?

Why do so many of you insist on using the “documentation please” smoke screen for things that are plainly evident?

 

[Uncle_Norbert]

I’ve received on the tongue since the 60’s. Never has it happened that my tongue/lips have been touched in the process.

NEVER? NEVER in 40 years? methinks there must be a tad of exaggeration here…

 

[Eilish_Maura]

It cracks me up when people outright reject “anecdotal” information, as if somehow reality observed doesn’t exist.

It is very amusing when a thread starts as an exchange (not a debate) then someone gets it in their head to, hmm, play dirty.

There does seem to be an area where anecdotal information is “acceptable”.

 

[Eilish_Maura]

Correct. Every time you post "my friend who is a priest told me " without citing any teaching, it is purely anecdotal and unworthy of much attention in a debate. It’s about time you realized!

Since when were we debating the potential of a priest or EMHC accidentally touching the tongue of a communicant?

Where would the Church put a ‘teaching’ on such a thing???

Who would believe remarking on such a thing would qualify as an ‘outrageous’ statement regarding the Church!