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Fink
Guest
Considering the notoriety of these politicians, i reckon their Pastors and Bishops wouldn`t have any need to be told about their acts.
Vatican officials encouraging push to stop communion for pro-abort pols
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Carlan
Guest
Yes, I understand that, but why do you suppose the Bishops do not call them out publicly?Could it be that they assume they deal with their sin in the way the Church provides…in the confessional. They are in there with their judge , Jesus. We all face Him alone wih our sin ,not with our brothers tuning in. If they commit sacrilege they will pay the price.
Peace, Carlan
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Teelynn
Guest
Thanks so much for this Anne!!! Much needed on the battle front!
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NewEnglandPriest
Guest
Canon 915 is indeed an option that can be implemented but most bishops throughout the world have chosen other courses of action.
No one has said that individuals in a state of mortal sin should receive communion.
No one has said they should. The issue is if refusal is appropriate.
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NewEnglandPriest
Guest
I think you’re confusing a few issues here. Cardinal Burke is free to say whatever he wants as his own opinion however his only “magisterial authority” involves deciding cases officially before the Apostolic Signatura.
And what “public repentance” was Tony Blair made to do?
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Holly3278
Guest
Good! Pro-abortion politicians who also claim to be Catholic should not be receiving the Eucharist until they repent of their pro-abortion views and go to Confession and confess their sin. Once they have been absolved of their sin, then they can receive the Eucharist. But until then, they are only committing the grave sin of receiving the Eucharist in a state of mortal sin.
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ANNE_2
Guest
Cardinal Burke, Archbishop Chaput, and Cardinal Ratzinger (Pope Benedict) follow the teachings of the Church.
Any Bihsop who knowingly does not will have to answer to God because they contribute to the ‘Scandal’ causing the loss of Souls, and add to the ‘Relativism’ in today’s society; and in addition can be remote participants in Sacrilege.
(See the articles in my previous posts.)
Canon Law was passed by the Magisterium.
Canon Law 915 which can be found on the Vatican web site clearly states the following:
Can. 915 " Those who have been excommunicated or interdicted after the imposition or declaration of the penalty and others obstinately persevering in manifest grave sin are not to be admitted to holy communion ".
The “Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition” is also from the Magisterium.
CCC - " 2120 Sacrilege consists in profaning or treating unworthily the sacraments and other liturgical actions, as well as persons, things, or places consecrated to God. ** Sacrilege is a grave sin especially when committed against the Eucharist, for in this sacrament the true Body of Christ is made substantially present for us.** "
The public support or public vote of any Catholic politician for: abortion, euthanasia, embroyonic stem cell research, or homosexual marriage, also leads to the moral decay of society.
Failure on the part of some Bishops to correct Catholic politicians in their Diocese, and have them publically make reparation helps to cause political approval of homosexual marriage, abortion, loss of freedom of religion regarding adoption by gay couples and requirement for contraception, sterilization, and abortion in Catholic hospitals, - - - etc.
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NewEnglandPriest
Guest
No one has said they don’t.
Scandal is relative to time and place, and Church authorities also have to concern themselves with possible scandal taken by some who would not approve of a particular decision.
Its important to remember that canon law does not work like American law. The Code was written up by a committee appointed by the Pope and he then approved and promulgated it. The Pope is the supreme legislator, governor and judge of the law (canons 135 combined with 331).
The issue we have with making canon 915 mandatory on pro-abortion politicians is that its never been applied to politicians’ voting records before. While Cardinal Burke has advocated the interpretation that it mandatorily applies to voting records, the Holy Father has never issued that as an official interpretation. And given that Europe has yet to apply it in such a way, it does not appear that the Holy Father (the supreme judge of the law) has pushed anyone to apply canon 915 as a mandatory in such cases.
The Catechism is not a document of the Magisterium. It contains such documents but is not itself a document or magisterial teaching.
No bishop denies that.
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zz912
Guest
Canon 915 isn’t optional.
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NewEnglandPriest
Guest
In practice it has been…
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ANNE_2
Guest
You are correct. But Canon 915 is only ignored by those who do not follow the teachings of the Church, - who purposely ignore the Mortal Sins of Sacrilege and Scandal, and the resulting loss of Souls,
and by those who refuse to correct those in Mortal Sin to help them get to Heaven for eternity.
Many Souls are lost because of this, and Society has become morally corrupt through aiding in Relativism.
(Relativism is the concept that points of view have no absolute truth or validity, having only relative, subjective value according to differences in perception and consideration."
In addition 3 of the Spiritual Works of Mercy are: Admonish Sinners, Instruct the uniformed, and Counsel the Doubtful.
These apply to all Catholics regardless of their vocation in life.
calcatholic.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?id=0f724786-05df-4511-a0da-3ba138ccfeec
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ANNE_2
Guest
New England Pres -
I clearly stated the “Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition” is from the Magisterium of the Church.
All Catholics regardless of vocation or life position are required to adhere to its teachings.
The CCC contains the Doctrine of the Faith - regarding Faith and Morals.
" The Catechism of the Catholic Church, which I have approved…and the publication of which I order by virtue of my Apostolic Authority, is a statement of the Church’s faith and of Catholic Doctrine, attested to or illumined by Sacred Scripture, the Apostolic Tradition, and the Church’s Magisterium. I declare it to be a sure norm for teaching the Faith and thus a valid and legitimate instrument for ecclesial communion. " - Pope John Paul II (CCC pg 5)
Next here is the link from Cardinal Ratzinger (Pope Benedict) in 2004 when he was the Prefect for the Congregation of the Faith, regarding Worthiness to Receive Communion, and our not Voting for Politicans who support abortion and euthanasia.
priestsforlife.org/magisterium/bishops/04-07ratzingerommunion.htm
Further SCANDAL is not relative to time and place.
Those who publically profess to be Catholic and publically violate the teachings in the CCC commit SCANDAL.
Abortion, Euthanasia, Homosexual Marriage (rather than between one man and one woman), etc., have always been and will always be - Mortal Sins.
I clearly stated the “Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition” is from the Magisterium of the Church.
All Catholics regardless of vocation or life position are required to adhere to its teachings.
The CCC contains the Doctrine of the Faith - regarding Faith and Morals.
" The Catechism of the Catholic Church, which I have approved…and the publication of which I order by virtue of my Apostolic Authority, is a statement of the Church’s faith and of Catholic Doctrine, attested to or illumined by Sacred Scripture, the Apostolic Tradition, and the Church’s Magisterium. I declare it to be a sure norm for teaching the Faith and thus a valid and legitimate instrument for ecclesial communion. " - Pope John Paul II (CCC pg 5)
Next here is the link from Cardinal Ratzinger (Pope Benedict) in 2004 when he was the Prefect for the Congregation of the Faith, regarding Worthiness to Receive Communion, and our not Voting for Politicans who support abortion and euthanasia.
priestsforlife.org/magisterium/bishops/04-07ratzingerommunion.htm
Further SCANDAL is not relative to time and place.
Those who publically profess to be Catholic and publically violate the teachings in the CCC commit SCANDAL.
Abortion, Euthanasia, Homosexual Marriage (rather than between one man and one woman), etc., have always been and will always be - Mortal Sins.
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ANNE_2
Guest
Pray for Pope Benedict.
Pray for all Bishops and Priests - that they may do God’s Will.
No Catholic is exempt from the teachings of Faith and Morals in the CCC.
Pray for all Bishops and Priests - that they may do God’s Will.
No Catholic is exempt from the teachings of Faith and Morals in the CCC.
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NewEnglandPriest
Guest
I think that’s an unfair statement. To apply canon 915 to voting records is a rather new concept and I don’t blame bishops for being careful about treading into such waters. As I previously pointed out, the individual approach has been the preffered method throughout the world, not just in the USA. Thus that speaks to the attitude of the universal Church towards the matter and not just a few individual bishops.
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NewEnglandPriest
Guest
However when the USCCB issued guidelines saying that it was up to the local bishop to make such decisions Cardinal Ratzinger stated that there was no major problem with the USCCB guidelines.
It most certainly. Scandal means that which would lead others into sin. A skirt above the ankle might lead someone to sinful thoughts 200 years ago, but today such a skirt would be considered quite modest.
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TMC
Guest
According to your interpretation of Canon 915, Pope Benedict and Pope John Paul have both violated Canon law, and therefore are guilty of “not follow[ing] the teachings of the Church.” Each has given communion to pro-choice and pro-gay rights politicians. I believe that was a pastoral decision that was well within their authority, and the authority of any pastor, but I don’t see how it squares with your interpretation of the Canon.
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TMC
Guest
Cardinal George, Cardinal Wuerl and Archbishop Dolan have each said the same in the last few years. That is hardly a unorthodox or disobedient bunch, and the recent promotions of Wuerl and Dolan indicate the Pope must be pretty happy with them.
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cornbread_r2
Guest
If only there was a powerful group of Catholics who could outlaw abortions in this country without fear of being defeated in their next elections, or who didn’t have to represent diverse constituencies, or who didn’t have to worry about having their actions over-turned by the Supreme Cou…hey, wait a minute!
I’ll accept that these periodic admonitions of elected officials are not politically motivated when I read of a bishop threatening to refuse communion to any or all of the six Catholic Supreme Court justices.
I’ll accept that these periodic admonitions of elected officials are not politically motivated when I read of a bishop threatening to refuse communion to any or all of the six Catholic Supreme Court justices.
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ANNE_2
Guest
Voting records are public. Voting in Congress, and also approval by the President are public actions. Voting records speak the ‘truth’.
Politicians must be held accountable by their actions, not just their statements which may merely be lies and pandering to get re-elected.
priestsforlife.org/magisterium/bishops/04-07ratzingerommunion.htm
One good reason the world is in such a mess - regarding Relativism and Secularism - is because public Mortal sins and Scandal have not been corrected, and repentance has not been required.
Every poltician can do their “own” thing by this lack of correction.
It appears to many weak, fallen away Catholics and non-Catholics alike that there is a double standard in the Catholic Church whereby some have no obligation to follow the teachings of Christ’s Church.
Therefore many pick and choose ‘what is personally right for them’ rather than forming a correct conscience by reading the “Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition”.
Further this is how immoral politicians who hurt society get elected in the first place - voters are voting selfishly and/or ignorantly, and then these Politicans appoint Judges and Ambassadors with their same immoral convictions. And the cancer spreads.
Pope John Paul II approved the “CCC 2nd Ed” along with the Magisterium, and Pope Benedict’s statement in the link are very clear.
The Church’s teachings will not change regarding murder - abortion, euthanasia, etc and public funding of such. “Thou shall not kill”.
Individual Bishops - as the rest of us - will have to answer to God.
Further each Bishop is responsible for what happens ‘Catholic’ within their own Diocese with their own people.
You will find this in the “CCC 2nd Ed”.
ALL Bishops, and ALL of us, will not get to eternal Heaven, which must be our main goal in life.
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Fink
Guest
Regarding the Confessional, these politicians are PUBLIC sinners; and that makes all of the difference between them and us. They
ve caused scandal! They thumb their noses at the Church, and make her a laughing stock. Theyve brought discredit on her. To outsiders, the Church looks just like a toothless windbag! 
.That seems like a red herring.
There are grey areas with skirt length; there`s no grey area with abortion!
These politicians are PUBLICLY advocating abortion which is MURDER, regardless of the period in History!
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