Vatican paper comes in praise of altar girls [John Allen]

[Sirach2]

That is true. Evidently, Fr. Z is on the same wavelength when he gave his take (in the red highlights) to what the author wrote:

Nevertheless, BOTH authors are reporting personal viewpoints. With regard to Fr. Z, I don’t see how his opinion should be regarded as superior to that of the reporter, for he is simply a priest, well known for his traditionalist views. It saddens me to hear negativity coming from the clergy, especially when he should be upholding the practices lawfully permitted in the Church. Views such as his only promote further alienation and dissension among the faithful.

This article explains what was missing in the OP’s link:

The article came the same week Pope Benedict XVI met with more than 53,000 altar servers from Europe during his Aug. 4 weekly general audience in St. Peter’s Square. The majority of young pilgrims, aged 14-25, were female – 60 percent, according to organizers.

The pope thanked the young people for their important service to the church and said by assisting priests at the altar, they were helping bring Jesus closer to the people and helping to make him ever more present in the world.

I applaud the Pope for not denouncing the practice or the servers as Fr. Z. did.

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

Questions:

Is it not a disservice to girls and young women to allow female altar servers?

How could such a service not entice females to desire the Priesthood as adults?

How could such a service, while done as a young person, not develop a sense of injustice in the hearts of women who cannot be ordained? In essence, we are telling females they are “good enough” to be altar servers, but they are not “good enough” to be ordained. How is that fair to females? How does that show clarity of roles within the Church?

It is a known fact (no guess) that altar serving has encouraged young men to consider the Priesthood…large percentages of Priests today were once altar servers. So, how could we possibly think that girls and young women would not respond the same way? Of course they will and of course they have. It simply leads to increased confusion and loss of clarity.

IMO

You know…I don’t know who thinks it isn’t clear that the Priesthood is for MEN only?

But if you want to talk about disservice to women…attitudes about women are interesting. I was not allowed to be an alter server when I was a girl…no big deal. I personally don’t see the big deal about it. If the Church went back to all men…no big deal IMO.

But I do have to admit I do get a knee jerk reaction when certain people have the cry against women readers and such. Like we are lesser beings. So…WHERE THE HECK ARE THE MEN…you don’t like it then step up to the plate! A lot of the men in our church are to busy being ushers… I don’t think it’s a matter of the women trying to take over…it’s the fact that men won’t step up. You want it to change? It begins with you…and your example to the young men. IMHO

 

[irishpatrick]

Irishpatrick was right. I wasn’t meaning Communion. This is why there are altar rails or if there isn’t, the altar is raised by one or two steps. Usually Communion is distributed below the altar.

I don’t believe it is a woman’s place to be serving at the altar. That also includes being a lector which was historically a minor clerical state. Granted, minor orders are gone but perhaps we need to get it back. I think that many people forget that the sanctuary is a sacred place for sacrifice. It has been treated very casually. I also have a problem to a degree with female sacristans since they come in and out of the sanctuary. In the older rubrics, all the sacred vessels were to be handled with gloves if a layman was taking care of them. The issue is restoring the sacred and encouraging young boys to become priests. The Church has become sooooo feminized and casual that there is hardly ANY sense of the sacred anymore .

What is an authentic and highly common abuse is the extreme overuse of Extraordinary Eucharistic Ministers. They are called “extraordinary” for a reason and nearly all parishes misuse them. It makes a party out of communion. I say take longer for communion and do it right.

 

[irishpatrick]

You know…I don’t know who thinks it isn’t clear that the Priesthood is for MEN only?

But if you want to talk about disservice to women…attitudes about women are interesting. I was not allowed to be an alter server when I was a girl…no big deal. I personally don’t see the big deal about it. If the Church went back to all men…no big deal IMO.

But I do have to admit I do get a knee jerk reaction when certain people have the cry against women readers and such. Like we are lesser beings. So…WHERE THE HECK ARE THE MEN…you don’t like it then step up to the plate! A lot of the men in our church are to busy being ushers… I don’t think it’s a matter of the women trying to take over…it’s the fact that men won’t step up. You want it to change? It begins with you…and your example to the young men. IMHO

I agree completely, men should step-up and the Churches should call for it regularly. The more feminized the Church becomes, the less men will be involved, and fewer men will go to Mass, and some will leave the Church for some other denomination that they think is better for them. It is just the nature of men, like it or not that is reality. Men, just like young men and boys, tend to volunteer for tasks that they think are manly. It makes no difference what some secular modernists think or want, men react in certain ways because they are men.

 

[rapunzel77]

What is an authentic and highly common abuse is the extreme overuse of Extraordinary Eucharistic Ministers. They are called “extraordinary” for a reason and nearly all parishes misuse them. It makes a party out of communion. I say take longer for communion and do it right.

I agree. It is sad to see that taking Communion and participating in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass has been cheapened by the abuse of using “extraordinary” ministers, etc. I honestly believe that we need to defeminize the Church and that does include getting the women out of the sanctuary. I think it was a very grave mistake to get rid of the minor orders and allow female altar servers. Again, women have NO business in the sanctuary. They are NOT clerics nor can they truly take the place of clerics. Women can be in the choir and help to clean altar linens, etc.

There needs to be a greater demarcation between the clergy and the laity. These lines have been blurred for too long and as we have seen, it has been detrimental to the Faith. Women CAN’T be clerics so why are they put in quasi-clerical positions??? It is ludicrous. Sure, then can teach RCIA and CCD but please quit trying to do Father’s job. Get the women off of the Altar for the sake of Our Lord.

 

[benedictgal]

Nevertheless, BOTH authors are reporting personal viewpoints. With regard to Fr. Z, I don’t see how his opinion should be regarded as superior to that of the reporter, for he is simply a priest, well known for his traditionalist views. It saddens me to hear negativity coming from the clergy, especially when he should be upholding the practices lawfully permitted in the Church. Views such as his only promote further alienation and dissension among the faithful.

This article explains what was missing in the OP’s link:

I applaud the Pope for not denouncing the practice or the servers as Fr. Z. did.

However, it’s not so much a denoucement of the practice on Fr. Z’s part, as it is Ms. Scaraffia’s reasoning.

There are some diocese and some parishes that do not allow female altar servers. While female altar servers are an option, they are not mandatory. A bishop and/or priest is well within his right to not permit this in his diocese/parish. That is the distinction.

 

[ljubim]

I was a female altar server when I was younger, and totally, wholeheartedly regret it, I really wish I could take that back or that some adult or priest had stood up and explained to me why I shouldn’t.

 

[irishpatrick]

I agree. It is sad to see that taking Communion and participating in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass has been cheapened by the abuse of using “extraordinary” ministers, etc. I honestly believe that we need to defeminize the Church and that does include getting the women out of the sanctuary. I think it was a very grave mistake to get rid of the minor orders and allow female altar servers. Again, women have NO business in the sanctuary. They are NOT clerics nor can they truly take the place of clerics. Women can be in the choir and help to clean altar linens, etc.

There needs to be a greater demarcation between the clergy and the laity. These lines have been blurred for too long and as we have seen, it has been detrimental to the Faith. Women CAN’T be clerics so why are they put in quasi-clerical positions??? It is ludicrous. Sure, then can teach RCIA and CCD but please quit trying to do Father’s job. Get the women off of the Altar for the sake of Our Lord.

I think women in lector positions is fine. I just have a problem with females serving at the altar because that is a place to encourage young men to consider the Priesthood.

I look at altar servers as being similar to the minor leagues in baseball. Without a good minor league system most teams will not be good.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I agree completely, men should step-up and the Churches should call for it regularly. The more feminized the Church becomes, the less men will be involved, and fewer men will go to Mass, and some will leave the Church for some other denomination that they think is better for them. It is just the nature of men, like it or not that is reality. Men, just like young men and boys, tend to volunteer for tasks that they think are manly.

I don’t disagree with you, but sometimes I think there’s more to it.

My family is sort of “dual parish” for historical reasons. Because my grandchildren all attend the parish school at “St. X”, my grandsons serve there. (My granddaughters didn’t want to do it.) But we sometimes attend “St. Y”. My grandsons are technically members of “St. X”. Recently, the parish RCIA director asked them if they would also serve at “St.Y”, and why? Because almost nobody cared to serve Mass there; girls or boys.

I do think having altar girls was a mistake. At “St. Y”, the boys dropped out immediately after the pastor started with altar girls. I’m not totally sure it was the presence of girls, exactly. Part of it, I think, was the “unisex” garb all were to wear. My own son commented that he did not want to “dress up like a girl” to serve Mass. I couldn’t persuade him otherwise; possibly it was a peer view of the thing.

Parents, I think, are the main reason kids serve Mass, or don’t. If the parent thinks it’s important, so will the kid. But still, I do think the former parental insistence that their boys serve “because it was the thing for boys to do” made a difference. Once it ceased being a gender role and duty, I think parental interest slackened across the board.

One last thing that may or may not have any relevance. At one time, serving Mass was very exacting. It took a lot to learn how to do it. That’s no longer the case. Fortunately, at “St. X” the priest demands more of the servers than at “St. Y”. Whether that’s the reason or not, my grandsons greatly prefer serving at “St. X” and have actually complained that “you don’t do anything” serving at “St. Y”.

 

[plato3]

The need for altar girls came because, in Italy and now most of Europe, church attendance is so low and most who attend are women. The top priority of our pope is now to re-evangelize Europe, which in old times was so rich in faith, and hopefully from that will come the return of many to Mass each week and more altar boys. A friend of mine attended Mass in Europe and the altar girl was about 70 years old-God bless her.

 

[irishpatrick]

I don’t disagree with you, but sometimes I think there’s more to it.

My family is sort of “dual parish” for historical reasons. Because my grandchildren all attend the parish school at “St. X”, my grandsons serve there. (My granddaughters didn’t want to do it.) But we sometimes attend “St. Y”. My grandsons are technically members of “St. X”. Recently, the parish RCIA director asked them if they would also serve at “St.Y”, and why? Because almost nobody cared to serve Mass there; girls or boys.

I do think having altar girls was a mistake. At “St. Y”, the boys dropped out immediately after the pastor started with altar girls. I’m not totally sure it was the presence of girls, exactly. Part of it, I think, was the “unisex” garb all were to wear. My own son commented that he did not want to “dress up like a girl” to serve Mass. I couldn’t persuade him otherwise; possibly it was a peer view of the thing.

Parents, I think, are the main reason kids serve Mass, or don’t. If the parent thinks it’s important, so will the kid. But still, I do think the former parental insistence that their boys serve “because it was the thing for boys to do” made a difference. Once it ceased being a gender role and duty, I think parental interest slackened across the board.

One last thing that may or may not have any relevance. At one time, serving Mass was very exacting. It took a lot to learn how to do it. That’s no longer the case. Fortunately, at “St. X” the priest demands more of the servers than at “St. Y”. Whether that’s the reason or not, my grandsons greatly prefer serving at “St. X” and have actually complained that “you don’t do anything” serving at “St. Y”.

It is sad that there are so many cases in which “St. Y” and “St. X” offer utterly different experiences…they are all supposed to be very nearly the same…thus the word “Universal” (catholic).

 

[Sirach2]

Benedictgal:

However, it’s not so much a denoucement of the practice on Fr. Z’s part, as it is Ms. Scaraffia’s reasoning.

Of course, that is YOUR opinion of the two OPINIONS.

Fr. Z: Which leads us to the question of why the priest’s hands are anointed, and the reason for a sanctuary in a church which is already a sacred space, and why only males are ordained and why the Lord was male.

As my third OPINION, His comment was extraneous and inappropriate. It reads like condescension and opposition to the entire concept female altar servers. Fr. Z is known also for being blunt and rude.

 

[benedictgal]

Of course, that is YOUR opinion of the two OPINIONS.

Fr. Z: Which leads us to the question of why the priest’s hands are anointed, and the reason for a sanctuary in a church which is already a sacred space, and why only males are ordained and why the Lord was male.

As my third OPINION, His comment was extraneous and inappropriate. It reads like condescension and opposition to the entire concept female altar servers. Fr. Z is known also for being blunt and rude.

Again, you are taking what Fr. Z said out of context. The author of the piece, Ms. Scarrafia, has taken stands that are not always in line with Church teaching. She is a feminist and, while she is a revert, much of her line of thinking has not really changed.

 

[wisdomseeker]

People like the blame game better. It’s much easier to try and pin something complex like vocation shortages on one concrete and simple idea. The truth I would guess is much more complex and based on several factors , and I would bet that at least some of these factors proved to be synergistic in nature.

i will add to that. protestants also have been of great impact on the people by constant preaching against the Church. this is a fact that must not be ignored. i think this plays a major role on the problems that the Church is facing. this thing of ecumenism, throwing Catholics into protestantism acceptance has greatly damaged the faith of the Church.
it is wrong to mix faith.

 

[irishpatrick]

i will add to that. protestants also have been of great impact on the people by constant preaching against the Church. this is a fact that must not be ignored. i think this plays a major role on the problems that the Church is facing. this thing of ecumenism, throwing Catholics into protestantism acceptance has greatly damaged the faith of the Church.
it is wrong to mix faith.

IMO, the single greatest reason for lack of vocations to the Priesthood is due to the fact that Catholics now contracept and abort their children at rates quite similar to non-Catholics. Catholic families used to have 5-10 kids and the parents had no issue with encouraging little Johnny to become a Priest. Today little Johnny might be there only son and they do not want to “give-up” that son to the Priesthood.

Females altar servers, as I have said before, also contributes, but there are many reasons.

 

[ProVobis]

Cardinal Arinze: “I think it was a mistake.”

youtube.com/watch?v=KWByiwHE4MY

 

[pnewton]

I had a question that was not answered earlier. Should boys and men that either:

a) have not desire to ever be a priest, or
b) have weighted the question and chosen a vocation apart from the priesthood
c) wed

be allowed to serve as altar servers are any where near the altar?

 

[Stylites]

It is good whenever any youth comes to serve at the altar.

 

[irishpatrick]

I had a question that was not answered earlier. Should boys and men that either:

a) have not desire to ever be a priest, or
b) have weighted the question and chosen a vocation apart from the priesthood
c) wed

be allowed to serve as altar servers are any where near the altar?

Yes for the boys. There are not very many men servers.

 

[snowbee]

Quote:“The exclusion of girls from all of this, for the sole reason of their being female, has always weighed heavily and represented a deep inequality within Catholic education,” it said…Permitting girls to assist at the altar “has meant the idea they were impure because of their gender came to an end” and has meant girls, too, “could live out this extraordinarily important formative experience,” it said.

Dangerous, because this same reasoning could be used to argue for women to be made priests. There is reasoning to allow only males in the sanctuary only, not simply scriptural but traditional as well. Slippery slope.