Vatican proposes EU as example of Social Doctrine

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Our conference wants to understand in detail why nationalism became important in one specific historic phase of human history, what its presuppositions and consequences were,….
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Treaty of Westphalia ended the Eighty Years War and the Thirty Years War and began the dissolution of the supranational Holy Roman Empire because people were tired of fighting.
why after World War II supranational institutions became increasingly powerful,
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People were tired of fighting.
and why in the last years there has been a backlash against internationalism and a resurgence of nationalism.
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Tower of Babel redux. EU has 24 official languages.
 
A million times better than Maggie Roberts, the grocer’s daughter from Lincolnshire, enrolling a coach to change her shrill, heavily accented voice into the standard ‘received pronunciation’ (or RP) she thought she needed to reach the highest echelons of power in Tory Britain, newly christened as Margaret Thatcher the “Iron Lady”.

By the end of her career, she had become so unmoored from her roots (and from reality) that she was using the royal “We” and swaning around speaking with jories in her mouth like the baroness she became.

Before she took those elocution lessons, Maggie pronounced mustard ‘moostard’ and custard ‘coostard’.
 
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Isn’t that the job of the Irish government (and the NI administration, if only the DUP didn’t get in such a stupid tizzy about it)? Agreeing it as an official language seems a positive act of support.
 
Or it might be argued to be failing to apply proper subsidiarity.
 
There are other groups in Europe which have sought independence. For example, what to do about:

The Basques

Catalonia

Russians in Donetsk and Luhansk Сою́з наро́дных респу́блик the confederation of DPR and LPR

Partition of Belgium

Walloons

Moravia

Corsica

Hungarian sections of Romania

Transnistria
etc.
 
This is VERY true. There is a vast difference in what things are like in the gigantic Los Angeles region of Southern California and in rural Oklahoma. There can be vast differences in different parts of states. Northern Virginia is very much a part of the greater Washington DC metropolitan area and has become quite diverse and cosmopolitan (and has some of the worst traffic problems imaginable). Southwestern Virginia, on the other hand, is deep into Appalachia and coal country and is a very different place entirely culturally, although geographically they are not that far apart.
 
Canvas said:
There is a vast difference in what things are like in the gigantic Los Angeles region of Southern California and in rural Oklahoma.
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There is a lot of homelessness and starving people begging for a bite to eat in southern California. Starving homeless people are sleeping during the day in many public libraries. I went to the local public library recently and there was an elderly homeless man with his cart of (dirty) belongings and old clothes sleeping in the children’s section of the library. The librarian woke him up and asked him to leave that section, because it was the children’s section. He started screaming all kinds of loud foul curses at the lady librarian calling her all kinds of foul names and everyone was frightened at what he might do next. However, he finally left but not without a flood of loud filthy language directed at the librarian and in front of all the shocked and frightened children and other patrons.
 
AlNg said:
There is a lot of homelessness and starving people begging for a bite to eat in southern California. Starving homeless people are sleeping during the day in many public libraries.
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Nope, we don’t have lots of starving people
but we do have homeless people and people with mental illness,
as indicated in your anecdote.
 
Theo520 said:
Nope, we don’t have lots of starving people
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There are approximately 40,044,000 food insecure people in the USA. Food insecurity refers to USDA’s measure of lack of access, at times, to enough food for an active, healthy life for all household members and limited or uncertain availability of nutritionally adequate foods.

map.feedingamerica.org

Hunger & Poverty in the United States | Map the Meal Gap

The food insecurity rate in the United States was 14.3% in 2023. Explore a map of hunger statistics in the United States at the state and local level.
map.feedingamerica.org map.feedingamerica.org
 
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I wonder when the Russians are going to give the Chechens there independence? Dagestanis and so on.
 
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Victoria33 said:
I wonder when the Russians are going to give the Chechens there independence?
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Not sure. Will the Americans give Californians their independence? And there is talk of a Texas-exit also.
It seems that the Americans would not allow this because:
" Current Supreme Court precedent, in Texas v. White, holds that the states cannot secede from the union by an act of the state. More recently, Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia stated, “If there was any constitutional issue resolved by the Civil War, it is that there is no right to secede.”"

Could California really become its own country? | Constitution Center

There is now a movement afoot by a group seeking a ballot referendum in California for that state to become its own sovereign nation. It’s not actually a new idea, but it is one that faces extremely long odds.odds.
constitutioncenter.org

en.m.wikipedia.org

Yes California - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org en.m.wikipedia.org

www.cnbc.com

The 'Calexit' plan to split California from the US gets a second chance, while others are looking to break up the state

California's secession movement will get a second try, but there are two other proposals to split up the state.
www.cnbc.com www.cnbc.com
 
The question was about the Chechens, not California and not Texas. Thank you for your response.

I’m sure there are plenty of other groups this can be spoken about with Russia as well including the Far East…definitely with Asian peoples.

How very moral, it is okay to break international law and steal land such as Crimea and Eastern Ukraine… which might have been some deal where Russians sent out people to essentially displace the existing population since the Kremlin exterminated so many with famine.

Everyone too! Who started World War II? The Red Army collaborated with the Nazis to divide up Europe.

There are pictures of the great Red Army saluting the Nazi flag, the Swastika, having a joint parade with the Nazis.

We should not let people steal land and break international law.

PS, the 10,000 people who have died in Eastern Ukraine because of the Russian aggression you are talking about would take issue with the facts you cite of these lands being there, being Russian majority, wanting to belong to Russia or even being Russian peoples. That is propaganda.
 
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I, for one, think that succession should be a legitimate political option for any state. It makes no sense to me that a sovereign entity should be able to vote to join the union of the United States, but not be able to leave it. There are pros and cons to being a state within the United States, mostly pros imo, and states should be able to choose when to begin or end that relationship. In the fantasy land where this would be allowed by the federal government, I think it should be governed by some serious rules, such as maybe 3/4 of the state legislature voting for it or something. But honestly if states cannot leave then the union is a farce as a voluntary organization. Just look at the way the EU is going, with completely different national cultures. You try to leave, they try to destroy you.

So as far as I am concerned, Cali is free to vote to leave or break up their state, and they can sink under the crushing debt of their policies alone. It is going to float off into the Pacific eventually anyways.
 
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FirstFiveEighth said:
Just look at the way the EU is going, with completely different national cultures. You try to leave, they try to destroy you
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No.

You try to leave, they try to reach agreement with you on the terms under which you leave. When they reach agreement with your government on the terms under which you leave, and yet your government cannot get parliamentary assent to the terms it has agreed, they give you plenty of time to try to make up your mind.

Evil, eh?
 
The supranational authority has been tried before, with lamentable results. Just look at the thousand-year reich of Hitler or the Soviet Union. Each claimed millions of lives and destroyed the European continent, not to mention the Catholic church.
 
ontheway1 said:
The supranational authority has been tried before, with lamentable results. Just look at the thousand-year reich of Hitler or the Soviet Union.
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Which weren’t voluntary organisations, meanwhile, Europe has centuries of experience of squabbling nations and dynasties.
 
All supra-national organizations (empires) have always been ruled at gun-point and relied on enslaving vast majorities of peoples they ruled. The European Union is viewed by some as a rehashing of the third reich or Bizmark’s Germany of two centuries ago. And looking at it’s political orientation, it may be closed to the Soviet model.
Lenin always dreamed of a communist Germany. Maybe his dream is becoming reality?
 
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