Vatican punishes French priest for being a Freemason

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great information yet still no condemnation of a man that attacks a choir. Very interesting and very revealing of what we hold most dear and sacred.

Thank you for all the (name removed by moderator)ut but I hope I am not sitting in mass with any of the respondents.
 
FreciaMarie said:
My experience, as well, prior to moving to California.
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What is the leadership? What constitutes the leadership that you are referring to? I know several Masons that are in positions but not sure if that’s considered leadership.
 
TexasTech said:
great information yet still no condemnation of a man that attacks a choir. Very interesting and very revealing of what we hold most dear and sacred.

Thank you for all the (name removed by moderator)ut but I hope I am not sitting in mass with any of the respondents.
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I’m sure no one is condoning attacking anyone, I’m certainly not. But the post where you introduce this reads like an intentional red herring logical fallacy, and we get plenty of that around here. Derailing the thread may or may not be your intent, i’m inclined to think not. However, that is what it looks like.

Regardless, if people respond to you and engage on that topic, pretty soon the original topic will be lost and it will be nothing but how we can’t support Church teaching on Freemasons because it might lead to someone beating up a choir and we have to be charitable, etc. etc. etc. You may laugh, but it happens here on CAF with great frequency whenever someone actually tries to support Church teaching on anything.

Since many Catholics have been concerned about this for a very long time and are happy that things are finally starting to get done, they simply have no interest in falling into the typical pattern. If you want to talk about this, consider starting a thread on it and those who are interested will join in.

Back to the topic at hand.

Peace of Christ,
 
jwinch2 said:
I’m sure no one is condoning attacking anyone, I’m certainly not. But the post where you introduce this reads like an intentional red herring logical fallacy, and we get plenty of that around here. Derailing the thread may or may not be your intent, i’m inclined to think not. However, that is what it looks like.

Regardless, if people respond to you and engage on that topic, pretty soon the original topic will be lost and it will be nothing but how we can’t support Church teaching on Freemasons because it might lead to someone beating up a choir and we have to be charitable, etc. etc. etc. You may laugh, but it happens here on CAF with great frequency whenever someone actually tries to support Church teaching on anything.

Since many Catholics have been concerned about this for a very long time and are happy that things are finally starting to get done, they simply have no interest in falling into the typical pattern. If you want to talk about this, consider starting a thread on it and those who are interested will join in.

Back to the topic at hand.

Peace of Christ,
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Here is what I am interested in doing:
Your concerns about Freemasonry may or may not be valid. I am a grown man and can make my own decisions but that’s of no concern here.
I am not trying to derail any conversation or dialogue. What I am completely aware of is that when its violence for the seemingly right reason, nobody says anything about it. We ignore the whole issue. I am deeply concerned that we take such a apathetic position since the apparently deranged man did it for the seemingly right reasons.

I am equally incensed when we have someone blow up an abortion clinic. When we have a devout member performing such insane acts, despite the intention, it does NOTHING for our cause or beliefs. In fact it serves to illustrate the exact opposite.

Now when the general public look at that headline in the newspaper, do you think that the average reader says “wow the Freemasons must really be bad to deserve that” or do you think that say “wow, what a total lunatic and crazy Catholic to randomly attack his own choir with such crazy accusations”. My own inclination is the latter.

I don’t know that much about the Freemasons so I am neutral on what they do or stand for but I do know this much; standing idly by and not condemning such actions only makes the Freemasons look oppressed and draws favorable attention to them. If that’s what we are trying to do then we, as Catholics, are doing a great job. If we are trying to cast aside the allure of Freemasonry then we need to change our actions and responses. The public is watching and we aren’t acting in a Christian manner by nodding our heads in silent approval thinking that any group deserves that.

That’s all I am trying to do or say. I would hope that if me or my family were being violently attacked in mass somebody would step up and intervene despite the sins and errors I have committed in my life. God forgave me my sins and he didn’t smite me so why should be wittingly permit it to be done to others.
 
Pulvis said:
Being a member of the local Lodge was/is your ticket to advance in most businesses and professions, especially in the Police, Fire, EMS and civil government. As a Catholic it has been very apparent to me how this system works and it is only now changing due to the influx of Catholics from up North. But in the smaller towns, this rule still stands. You do not want to run afoul of the local Lodge. And a Catholic who believes the teachings and admonishments of The Church is seen as a threat.
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Kind of reminds me of the “No one can serve two masters” example in Matthew (though the context is in comparison to God and money). I don’t want to make a hasty generalization but what you said might be the reason why it’s so difficult for a person (a priest to be precise) to leave masonry and seek first His kingdom and righteousness.
 
TexasTech said:
Here is what I am interested in doing:
Your concerns about Freemasonry may or may not be valid. I am a grown man and can make my own decisions but that’s of no concern here.
I am not trying to derail any conversation or dialogue. What I am completely aware of is that when its violence for the seemingly right reason, nobody says anything about it. We ignore the whole issue. I am deeply concerned that we take such a apathetic position since the apparently deranged man did it for the seemingly right reasons.

I am equally incensed when we have someone blow up an abortion clinic. When we have a devout member performing such insane acts, despite the intention, it does NOTHING for our cause or beliefs. In fact it serves to illustrate the exact opposite.

Now when the general public look at that headline in the newspaper, do you think that the average reader says “wow the Freemasons must really be bad to deserve that” or do you think that say “wow, what a total lunatic and crazy Catholic to randomly attack his own choir with such crazy accusations”. My own inclination is the latter.

I don’t know that much about the Freemasons so I am neutral on what they do or stand for but I do know this much; standing idly by and not condemning such actions only makes the Freemasons look oppressed and draws favorable attention to them. If that’s what we are trying to do then we, as Catholics, are doing a great job. If we are trying to cast aside the allure of Freemasonry then we need to change our actions and responses. The public is watching and we aren’t acting in a Christian manner by nodding our heads in silent approval thinking that any group deserves that.

That’s all I am trying to do or say. I would hope that if me or my family were being violently attacked in mass somebody would step up and intervene despite the sins and errors I have committed in my life. God forgave me my sins and he didn’t smite me so why should be wittingly permit it to be done to others.
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If that is what you wish to talk about, then start a thread about it. I am sure you will find many people who are willing to condemn the actions, myself included. However, you are again throwing a red herring logical fallacy. In no way does this conversation related to a Freemason priest have anything to do with you or your family being attacked at Mass. You are again trying to derail this thread, which is why I am the only one responding to you.

Also, your accusing others of silent approval of violence is entirely unwarranted and frankly, offensive. Lumping people in and suggesting that we all need to change our actions and responses as a result of one person who did something stupid and violent is also unwarranted and offensive.

This is why no one is responding to your bait.
 
Lumping people in and suggesting that we all need to change our actions and responses as a result of one person who did something stupid and violent is also unwarranted and offensive

Hope that equally applies to Freemasonry my friend. Lets not lump everyone in the same group.

Have a blessed day. Thank you for your veiled attempt at deriding the converstion. It didnt work and wont work.
 
For what its worth, TT, I publicly refute the individual who attacked the Choir. I cannot condemn anyone for anything, I do not have that authority. That was an act of violence chosen by an individual, Not the Church. But I do stand by my earlier post as to the issues with freemasonry in regards to the Church. And as stated in my earlier post, I have lived in the South for 57 years and am very well aware of both the power and the dangers of freemasonry as concerns the Catholic Church. I have also seen their attempts to draw out members from, and infiltrate the parishes in South Carolina where I have lived my entire life, save for my Army service. The Church has spoken, I obey the Church.
 
Who has failed to condemn the American attack? I ask you, who here, or anywhere, has supported it or said anything positive about it? What kind of reasoning are you trying to use with your obvious red herring and derailment? What do you expect us to say about it?
 
jwinch2 said:
Brutal. That was so bad I should report it to the moderation staff! 😃

Just kidding.
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Just a note of levity to keep things from getting too heated.

I know Freemasonry has been condemned by past Popes and that they’re considered anti-Catholic … but the guys who drive the little cars at parades or the people who build hospitals kind of “moderate” me without the need of outside help. 🙂

This priest seems disobedient and has his priorities out of whack. If a person is a priest THAT vocation must come first. It sounds like the Vatican is totally justified in its discipline.

So maybe, relieved of his confliction, “Father” can start driving the little cars at parades INSTEAD of being a rebel priest 🤷
 
And maybe we should start evangelising to the Freemasons! Convert the lot, and we’ll have nobody to staff the masonic lodges after that. 😃
 
CaptFun said:
Just a note of levity to keep things from getting too heated.
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Very much appreciated actually.
I know Freemasonry has been condemned by past Popes and that they’re considered anti-Catholic … but the guys who drive the little cars at parades or the people who build hospitals kind of “moderate” me without the need of outside help. 🙂
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This priest seems disobedient and has his priorities out of whack. If a person is a priest THAT vocation must come first. It sounds like the Vatican is totally justified in its discipline.
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So maybe, relieved of his confliction, “Father” can start driving the little cars at parades INSTEAD of being a rebel priest 🤷
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They always seemed pretty harmless to me as well, and the Shriners do some great work with their hospitals and other programs. However, the fact of the matter remains that Freemasonry has been spoke about by multiple popes as inconsistent with Catholicism and as you noted, anti-Catholic. So any priest that would join them knows he is doing something wrong, and should be dealt with accordingly.
 
TexasTech said:
great information yet still no condemnation of a man that attacks a choir. Very interesting and very revealing of what we hold most dear and sacred.

Thank you for all the (name removed by moderator)ut but I hope I am not sitting in mass with any of the respondents.
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The man who attacked the choir probably has some kind of serious mental illness. He needs psychiatric intervention (possibly institutionalization), not condemnation.
 
m134e5 said:
The man who attacked the choir probably has some kind of serious mental illness. He needs psychiatric intervention (possibly institutionalization), not condemnation.
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He can have both, actually. There’s nothing wrong with condemning a vile act even if it was perpetrated in the context of a mental illness. 🙂
 
It is also worth noting that the American brand of Freemasonry, though still forbidden to Catholics, has traditionally been more of a social networking venue for white Protestants… there are some elements of the occult at higher levels (a Lutheran friend of mine became a cabalist and gnostic after joining) but it’s less prevalent.

Freemasonry in Europe and South America, however, is aggressively secularist and laicist. They have actively worked in an organized fashion to attack the Church, her institutions, her temporal powers and prerogatives, and the social kingship of Jesus Christ.

The difference is sorta like the difference between being a Maoist in the USA (smoke weed and call cops “pigs” while occupying Wall Street or maybe just Main Street) and being a Maoist in South Asia (massacre people with AK-47s and retreat to your remote hideout). One brand is a bit more overt than another.
 
Filii_Dei said:
He can have both, actually. There’s nothing wrong with condemning a vile act even if it was perpetrated in the context of a mental illness. 🙂
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There is a big difference between a crazy person being crazy, and an evil person being evil. The actions of both are unfortunate, but I’m not sure the person who attacked the choir is morally culpable because this incident sounds like a mentally ill person acting on a delusion. The masonic priest, on the other hand, knows better. He was warned, and remained obstinate in his disobedience.
 
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