Vatican: Receiving Eucharist kneeling will be norm at papal liturgies

[Caveman]

Why the special rule for the Pope alone though? I mean if he truly believes in what he’s doing, why not make it mandatory everywhere?

Lily,
It’s quite simple. Changes come slowly in Catholicism. I’m sure you realize that. A good example is the Mass of Paul VI. That was initially celebrated by only by Pope Paul VI, then it spread (again, initially) quite slowly.

In the meantime, may God bless The Holy Father. The restoration is underway!!!

 

[Caveman]

EEM? Would that be EMHC? Actually another Eucharistic Minister would be a Priest (cardinal, bishop) or deacon. Would the norm be the samre for receiving from them?

Lux

That’s actually a really good question. From what I’ve read, this applies to Papal Liturgies only. And to be quite honest, I’m not sure if The Holy Father has anyone else administering Holy Communion during any of his Masses.

I’m sure you’ll agree that this will be interesting to follow.

 

[Lux_et_Tenebrae]

MN, then let them stare at you harshly. What you’re doing is right. You know it… and they know it.

Possibly they’re just re-directing their own shame at you?

Actually the people following the instruction are also doing what is right, and they do know it. And they are distracted by someone doing something which calls attention to themself, whether or not it is permitted. The Mass is not a place to push your personal preferences. It is a community celebration, where we are instructed to worship as a community.

Lux

 

[Caveman]

Actually the people following the instruction are also doing what is right, and they do know it. And they are distracted by someone doing something which calls attention to themself, whether or not it is permitted. The Mass is not a place to push your personal preferences. It is a community celebration, where we are instructed to worship as a community.

Lux

That gives them the right to give this man dirty looks? THAT’S the “right thing to do”? And since when was kneeling before The Lord “bringing attention to one’s self”?

And I must also take issue with your comment that “The Mass is not a place to push your personal preferences”, even if it’s an permitted stance? No, I’m starting to wonder if you’re against someone in a particular stance that you find offensive.

But all that aside, I strongly suggest you re-enroll in some of the more basic catechism classes, Lux. When you describe the Mass as simply a “community celebration”, you are woefully off the mark. The primary purpose of the Mass is that it’s the Unbloody Sacrifice of Christ on Calvary.

You see, Lux… the Mass isn’t primarily about us… it’s about God.

And I’ll be honest, you comment here is very “us, me, I” centered. Seriously, does your parish engage in horizonal worship, or vertical worship?

 

[Jennifer_G]

Altar rails need to be reinstalled in the church buildings they were removed from. I honestly believe that communion went faster when we all knelt at the rail.

I love kneeling - now, I came from a traditional styled Lutheran church that had kneelers and a high altar (at least for a Lutheran church). There are still two kneelers at my parish (in front of the statues of Mary and Joseph), with the rest being stored in the garage. Maybe I can ask the archbishop when he comes next month to bless our new parish center!

 

[wanner47]

Good news!

The first time I was at a Latin Mass was the first time I received communion kneeling, and I found that I much prefer it to standing. It seems so much more reverent. (I usually receive on the tongue anyway just because I usually am carrying a child at the time!)

 

[Teelynn]

Altar rails need to be reinstalled in the church buildings they were removed from. I honestly believe that communion went faster when we all knelt at the rail.

I agree 1000%. I really don’t know what reasoning they had for yanking them out of churches in the first place. They really were not in anyone’s way. And yes, it seemed to go just as quickly if not more so when we had them. (which, I believe, was the excuse they had to stop the practice, or at least that’s what I was told ) Maybe someone will start a thread on the role of EMHC’s and how that might play out. I am very excited about this, but as we all know, things move at a snail’s pace within The Church. Hopefully, I will see it in my lifetime.

 

[Lux_et_Tenebrae]

That gives them the right to give this man dirty looks? THAT’S the “right thing to do”? And since when was kneeling before The Lord “bringing attention to one’s self”?

And I must also take issue with your comment that “The Mass is not a place to push your personal preferences”, even if it’s an permitted stance? No, I’m starting to wonder if you’re against someone in a particular stance that you find offensive.

But all that aside, I strongly suggest you re-enroll in some of the more basic catechism classes, Lux. When you describe the Mass as simply a “community celebration”, you are woefully off the mark. The primary purpose of the Mass is that it’s the Unbloody Sacrifice of Christ on Calvary.

You see, Lux… the Mass isn’t primarily about us… it’s about God.

And I’ll be honest, you comment here is very “us, me, I” centered. Seriously, does your parish engage in horizonal worship, or vertical worship?

I see. I am “me” centered, but the person who chooses a position different from the rest is God centered?

If I attend a Mass where the norm is kneeling or genuflecting, I would do my best to comply.

And I must also take issue with your comment that “The Mass is not a place to push your personal preferences”, even if it’s an permitted stance? No, I’m starting to wonder if you’re against someone in a particular stance that you find offensive.

Don’t take issue or offence with me…This is not my opinion

from the GIRM

1. The gestures and posture of the priest, the deacon, and the ministers, as well as those of the people, ought to contribute to making the entire celebration resplendent with beauty and noble simplicity, so that the true and full meaning of the different parts of the celebration is evident and that the participation of all is fostered.52 Therefore, attention should be paid to what is determined by this General Instruction and the traditional practice of the Roman Rite and to what serves the common spiritual good of the People of God, rather than private inclination or arbitrary choice.
   A common posture, to be observed by all participants, is a sign of the unity of the members of the Christian community gathered for the Sacred Liturgy: it both expresses and fosters the intention and spiritual attitude of the participants

Lux

 

[Walking_Home]

I see. I am “me” centered, but the person who chooses a position different from the rest is God centered?

If I attend a Mass where the norm is kneeling or genuflecting, I would do my best to comply.

Don’t take issue or offence with me…This is not my opinion
42. The gestures and posture of the priest, the deacon, and the ministers, as well as those of the people, ought to contribute to making the entire celebration resplendent with beauty and noble simplicity, so that the true and full meaning of the different parts of the celebration is evident and that the participation of all is fostered.52 Therefore, attention should be paid to what is determined by this General Instruction and the traditional practice of the Roman Rite and to what serves the common spiritual good of the People of God, rather than private inclination or arbitrary choice.
A common posture, to be observed by all participants, is a sign of the unity of the members of the Christian community gathered for the Sacred Liturgy: it both expresses and fosters the intention and spiritual attitude of the participants

from the GIRM
Lux

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Would your interpretation apply to our Holy Father too. Would you say —he is undermining the “spiritual good of the People of God”.

 

[Caveman]

I see. I am “me” centered, but the person who chooses a position different from the rest is God centered?

I’m asking you in all sincerity and objectivly look at your posts. You give (to me anyways) the distinct impression that the focus is on the assemby, rather than on God.

And as far as “the person that chooses a different position”… so? I’d like to remind you that said “different position” is what Holy Mother The Church practiced for century upon centiry. This “standing and in the hand” is a fairly new phenomenon.

BTW, that person IS different, precisly because that person is kneeling before God Almighty. Is that a bad thing?

If I attend a Mass where the norm is kneeling or genuflecting, I would do my best to comply.

So you go with the flow. I see. Never mind the fact that Catholics have been kneeling before Christ for almost 2,000 years. Do you ever “do your best to comply” with that?

Don’t take issue or offence with me…This is not my opinion

Selective interpretation, at best. But I just want to ensure I understand you… me, you, anyone else… who kneels to rcv Christ is somehow out of step with the official teachings of The Church?

 

[Caveman]

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Would your interpretation apply to our Holy Father too. Would you say —he is undermining the “spiritual good of the People of God”.

Silly Pope! What, does he think he’s the Vicar of Christ, or something!!??

 

[KathleenElsie]

My family and I sit in the first pew. This lets us be sure that the one that we receive the Eucharist from is our priest. It also gives us a great view of the scared marble floor where the kneelers once were. Oh they patched the floor to be sure. But the scar of the holes and the new marble never has gone away. It reminds everyone of us of what once was.

 

[Lux_et_Tenebrae]

I’m asking you in all sincerity and objectivly look at your posts. You give (to me anyways) the distinct impression that the focus is on the assemby, rather than on God.

Liturgy is not private. It is the public worship of the Church, and there are liturgical norms.

And as far as “the person that chooses a different position”… so? I’d like to remind you that said “different position” is what Holy Mother The Church practiced for century upon centiry. This “standing and in the hand” is a fairly new phenomenon.

Yes, but it is the rubrics of the NO Mass. Do you still favor readings in Latin?

So you go with the flow. I see. Never mind the fact that Catholics have been kneeling before Christ for almost 2,000 years. Do you ever “do your best to comply” with that?

If this is what the rubrics call for, and I am able.

Selective interpretation, at best. But I just want to ensure I understand you… me, you, anyone else… who kneels to rcv Christ is somehow out of step with the official teachings of The Church?

This is not “an interpretation”, but a direct quote from the GIRM, which is the official Catholic instruction on the NO liturgy. I do my best to comply. If I attend a TLM, I would kneel, if I am able

Lux

 

[Lux_et_Tenebrae]

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Would your interpretation apply to our Holy Father too. Would you say —he is undermining the “spiritual good of the People of God”.

Again, this is not my interpretation, but direct quotes from the GIRM. I follow thw instructions, Certainly, you may do as you choose.

But to respond to your ridiculous question
GIRM 43…

With a view to a uniformity in gestures and postures during one and the same celebration, the faithful should follow the directions which the deacon, lay minister, or priest gives according to whatever is indicated in the Missal.

 

[Walking_Home]

Again, this is not my interpretation, but direct quotes from the GIRM. I follow thw instructions, Certainly, you may do as you choose.

But to respond to your ridiculous question
GIRM 43…

GIRM 43…

Quote:
With a view to a uniformity in gestures and postures during one and the same celebration, the faithful should follow the directions which the deacon, lay minister, or priest gives according to whatever is indicated in the Missal.

.

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Again —based on the GIRM --is our Holy Father undermining the spiritual good of the people.

In your view – Does Pope Benedict XVI have the authority to say by word and or deed — how the GIRM is to be applied.

 

[Lux_et_Tenebrae]

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Again —based on the GIRM --is our Holy Father undermining the spiritual good of the people.

Certainly not.

Isn’t this clear from this instruction?

With a view to a uniformity in gestures and postures during one and the same celebration, the faithful should follow the directions which the deacon, lay minister, or priest gives according to whatever is indicated in the Missal.

The pope is the “priest” at a papal Mass. My observation pertains to a member of the congregation choosing to use a private personal preferance in community worship.

In your view – Does Pope Benedict XVI have the authority to say by word and or deed — how the GIRM is to be applied.

I really can’t imagine the Pope instructing anything against the GIRM, so this is really a moot point, but I know I would follow any instruction given by the pope. I can’t imagine using the kneeling posture at Yankee stadium or a similar Mass.

Lux

 

[Walking_Home]

Certainly not.

Isn’t this clear from this instruction?

The pope is the “priest” at a papal Mass. My observation pertains to a member of the congregation choosing to use a private personal preferance in community worship.

I really can’t imagine the Pope instructing anything against the GIRM, so this is really a moot point, but I know I would follow any instruction given by the pope. I can’t imagine using the kneeling posture at Yankee stadium or a similar Mass.

Lux

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So as far as you are concerned the Pope is only the priest at a Papal Mass. So his office does not count.

Would you follow an instruction our Pope made via example.

 

[saylo]

I really want to kneel for communion, but nobody else does and I don’t want to stick out more than I already do. I do genuflect and that already gets me harsh stares from people.

Kneeling, genuflecting before the Eucharist is an outward sign of humility. Some folks might abhor these outward acts.

If we would all contemplate that the Son of God “humiliated Himself” for ALL of us. We ALL would be eager to kneel before the Eucharist.

 

[Lux_et_Tenebrae]

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So as far as you are concerned the Pope is only the priest at a Papal Mass. So his office does not count.

Would you follow an instruction our Pope made via example.

You are twisting my words. I was quoting the GIRM, and attempting to show you how it applies in this instance.

The celebrant has options which a member of the congregation does not have. It is not a legitimate comparison to compare the pope’s actions with those of a member of the congregation.

I am speaking of the norms for an NO Mass. Obviously the TLM norms are different. I quoted the GIRM, which apply to a NO Mass. There are only a few instructions for the congregation. I choose to follow them. Others may choose to ignore them. This is their prerogative,

Lux

 

[Michael_Neal]

By the way I do not genuflect to bring attention to myself, I am generally an introvert and dislike drawing attention to myself. I do it because I think is a more fitting way to prepare to receive the Lord.