Vatican: Receiving Eucharist kneeling will be norm at papal liturgies

[Lux_et_Tenebrae]

Joysong, what you posted earlier referred to the posture after one receives Holy Communion. That has no bearing on the issue at hand, nor were Lux’s comments about standing during the EP (which, by the way is incorrect).

Ah another unsubstantiated claim–please give an authentic reference(according to the hierachy of documents)
from the GIRM on the Vatican website

1. The faithful should stand from the beginning of the Entrance chant, or while the priest approaches the altar, until the end of the collect; for the Alleluia chant before the Gospel; while the Gospel itself is proclaimed; during the Profession of Faith and the Prayer of the Faithful; from the invitation, Orate, fratres (Pray, brethren), before the prayer over the offerings until the end of Mass, except at the places indicated below.

They should, however, sit while the readings before the Gospel and the responsorial Psalm are proclaimed and for the homily and while the Preparation of the Gifts at the Offertory is taking place; and, as circumstances allow, they may sit or kneel while the period of sacred silence after Communion is observed.

In the dioceses of the United States of America, they should kneel beginning after the singing or recitation of the Sanctus until after the Amen of the Eucharistic Prayer, except when prevented on occasion by reasons of health, lack of space, the large number of people present, or some other good reason. Those who do not kneel ought to make a profound bow when the priest genuflects after the consecration. The faithful kneel after the Agnus Dei unless the diocesan Bishop determines otherwise.[53]

With a view to a uniformity in gestures and postures during one and the same celebration, the faithful should follow the directions which the deacon, lay minister, or priest gives according to whatever is indicated in the Missal.

 

[Lux_et_Tenebrae]

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Bah.

Well. I’m still waiting

 

[Walking_Home]

Well. I’m still waiting

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Lux et Tenebrae – the “nastiness” showing thru – is the obvious anti-kneeling agenda some of you are immersed in.

 

[Lynn-D]

I really want to kneel for communion, but nobody else does and I don’t want to stick out more than I already do. I do genuflect and that already gets me harsh stares from people.

I grew up in the Catholic faith and my first Holy Communion was received on my knee’s. All of us who attended Catholic Schools learned that to receive communion was to be done giving honor to Christ on our knees at the altar rail.

I now bow to the host and receive communion on my tongue no different than I did as a child. Then I make the sign of the cross while walking back to the pew. :byzsoc:

Understand that I have received communion from deacons at the rail before so that would be the same if communion was to once again be received at the rail on our knees? I hope that we return to that format.

Lynn-D

 

[Lux_et_Tenebrae]

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Lux et Tenebrae – the “nastiness” showing thru – is the obvious anti-kneeling agenda some of you are immersed in.

must you always have the last word, which adds nothing to the discussion. as well as make unsubstantiated accusations? I am still waiting for you to show anything which substantiates your slander of me.

You do owe me an apology, Do you honestly believe that Jesus is more pleased by your kneeling than apologizing for false accusations?

 

[Walking_Home]

must you always have the last word, which adds nothing to the discussion. as well as make unsubstantiated accusations? I am still waiting for you to show anything which substantiates your slander of me.

You do owe me an apology, Do you honestly believe that Jesus is more pleased by your kneeling than apologizing for false accusations?

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Lux et Tenebrae — it is obvious from your posts in this thread --or have you forgotten them already.

 

[rlg94086]

I grew up in the Catholic faith and my first Holy Communion was received on my knee’s. All of us who attended Catholic Schools learned that to receive communion was to be done giving honor to Christ on our knees at the altar rail.

I now bow to the host and receive communion on my tongue no different than I did as a child. Then I make the sign of the cross while walking back to the pew. :byzsoc:

Understand that I have received communion from deacons at the rail before so that would be the same if communion was to once again be received at the rail on our knees? I hope that we return to that format.

Lynn-D

I like it too. I am a convert, so I did not have the early experiences with an altar rail. However a few years ago, when we moved back to “Silicon Valley” for a couple of years, we started to go to Our Lady of Peace. They use an altar rail, and I do think it is a better method.

I currently genuflect before receiving on my tongue and make the sign of the cross on the way back to the pew. (the “right way” though )

 

[Lux_et_Tenebrae]

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Lux et Tenebrae — it is obvious from your posts in this thread --or have you forgotten them already.

Please leave me alone. Why are you stalking me with no substantiation for your accusations?

Slander is a sin, did you not know this?

I will pray for you.

 

[Walking_Home]

Please leave me alone. Why are you stalking me with no substantiation for your accusations?

Slander is a sin, did you not know this?

I will pray for you.

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Stalking you —are you for real. You keep posting in this thread and when I respond – you accuse me of stalking. As for the slander --your posts in this thread speak for you.

 

[Lux_et_Tenebrae]

I have put you on my ignore list, please do the same

 

[Walking_Home]

You can do what you want. Just as the people are free to kneel – you are free to put me on ignore.

 

[benedictgal]

It pays to be trilingual. What many of you have posted is the English version of the GIRM, as if this is the only one available. Looking at the Vatican website, I have found this in the Spanish translation of the GIRM:

Los fieles comulgan estando de rodillas, o de pie, según lo haya determinado la Conferencia de Obispos

Translation:

The faithful receive Holy Communion kneeling, or standing, as determined by the Conference of Bishops.

In Spanish, the word “incar” means “to kneel”. The phrase “de rodillas” describes the action. This is the open door to the adaptation for standing.

Let’s see what it says in Italian:

I fedeli si comunicano in ginocchio o in piedi, come stabilito dalla Conferenza Episcopale.

Translation:

The faithful receive Communion kneeling, or standing, as established by the Episcopal Conference.

In Italian, the word “ginocchio” means to kneel. Again, the option to stand is established by the Episcopal Conference.

 

[ElizabethPH]

I like it too. I am a convert, so I did not have the early experiences with an altar rail. However a few years ago, when we moved back to “Silicon Valley” for a couple of years, we started to go to Our Lady of Peace. They use an altar rail, and I do think it is a better method.

I currently genuflect before receiving on my tongue and make the sign of the cross on the way back to the pew. (the “right way” though )

You mentioned and the person you replied too did as well that you make the sign of the cross on the way back to your pew. I was taught to step aside right after receiving and face the tabernacle and at that time make the sign of the cross.

 

[Robert_Bay]

GENERAL REMINDER

Please discuss the issues, not each other. Participants are strongly reminded that charity is essential to our discussions here.

If you wish to review the subject, please see Charity for specifics, or CAF rules for an overview, both of which are located in the Rules of the Road sub-forum.

 

[rlg94086]

You mentioned and the person you replied too did as well that you make the sign of the cross on the way back to your pew. I was taught to step aside right after receiving and face the tabernacle and at that time make the sign of the cross.

I’ve seen some parishioners do that, and I’ve seen others cross as they are walking. I don’t remember any particular instruction during RCIA.

If someone can clarify and/or give some documentation, I would appreciate it.

 

[Joysong]

At least we are making progress, B’gal, for now you will concede that we spoke correctly, that the universal norm is not simply kneeling as you formerly alleged. However, in order to be ‘right’, you are now spinning the commas in the translations for other countries. The MAIN translation is latin, which is universal, and has no commas.

1. Sacerdos deinde accipit patenam vel pyxidem, et accedit ad communicandos, qui de more processionaliter approprinquant.

160 … The faithful may communicate either standing or kneeling, as established by the Conference of Bishops.

Your private interpretation:

I fedeli si comunicano in ginocchio o in piedi, come stabilito dalla Conferenza Episcopale. [note the position of the comma, please]

Translation:

Quote:
The faithful receive Communion kneeling, or standing, as established by the Episcopal Conference. [Note how you moved the comma to make it mean what you want it to say below.]

In Italian, the word “ginocchio” means to kneel. Again, the option to stand is established by the Episcopal Conference.

The correct translation means to kneel or stand both options] are established by the E.C. and not as you have wrongly implied, only for standing. The same may be said of the spanish translation - NO commas in the original, except where you added them in your translation to change the meaning.

 

[MHalsey]

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What you promote – is for the people to become pawns.

A bishop can exercise his authority to a point —he does not have the authority to abrogate/suppress kneeling in his diocese. If a bishop denies the right to kneel --it will only put his disobedience out front — for all to see. In this situation Rome needs to be made aware of the bishop’s actions.

Rome has been clear on this matter. Do you want to continue down a path which seems to be in search of obstacles to curtail the full freedom people have to kneel.

Card. Arinze --Prefect for the Congregation of Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments.

“But even if the bishops decide that the people will receive in the hand standing as in the United States, Our Congregation in Rome has said yes, **provided that those who want to receive kneeling, you give them full freedom **and those who want to receive on the tongue you leave them in peace not in peaces.”

the-hermeneutic-of-continuity.blogspot.com/2008/06/classic-arinze.html

Are you deliberately trying to insult? Or are you just not reading my posts? I have already said a bishop has no right to deny someone their right to kneel. However, that denial does NOT negate his authority to declare his preference for standing in his diocese.

As someone else pointed out regarding my post:

Here is my point in all this mess. I think standing out of humble submission to legitimate authority is a good and meritorious act.

Thanks to Fix for that.

Let me ask you, do you openly question all that your bishop says or does in your diocese? After all, you say following my bishop makes me a pawn, therefore you must not. However, I must remind you, your bishop is an Apostle of the Church. He is your shepherd who is there to guide you. By openly questioning him, and “going above his head” to Rome, on everything puts you in a position of disobedience. My following his legitimate authority does not make me a pawn.

 

[Lynn-D]

You mentioned and the person you replied too did as well that you make the sign of the cross on the way back to your pew. I was taught to step aside right after receiving and face the tabernacle and at that time make the sign of the cross.

You are right of course but sometimes that can be difficult.

I make the sign of the cross after receiving communion and since I take communion from either the priest or the deacon who might be serving on the left side of the altar I turn right toward the tabernacle and it is then I make the sign of the cross. I am moving toward the return to my seat but I do always look toward the tabernacle but in passing. To stop would really be a burden on others since I do not take the wine/blood and would hold up everyone if I stopped to give proper honor in facing the tabernacle.

If kneeling I think it would, as before, be easier to receive, then face the tabernacle before standing and make the sign of the cross.

Lynn-D

 

[rlg94086]

You are right of course but sometimes that can be difficult.

I make the sign of the cross after receiving communion and since I take communion from either the priest or the deacon who might be serving on the left side of the altar I turn right toward the tabernacle and it is then I make the sign of the cross. I am moving toward the return to my seat but I do always look toward the tabernacle but in passing. To stop would really be a burden on others since I do not take the wine/blood and would hold up everyone if I stopped to give proper honor in facing the tabernacle.

If kneeling I think it would, as before, be easier to receive, then face the tabernacle before standing and make the sign of the cross.

Lynn-D

Thanks Lynn-D. Only one question…isn’t the tabernacle empty during communion? I guess I figured that giving proper reverence to the Eucharist before and during receiving is the equivalent to showing reverence to the tabernacle when Christ is present in the tabernacle.

Also, even if I don’t receive His Holy Blood, I stop and briefly bow as I pass…remember, He is present in the chalice.

 

[Lynn-D]

Thanks Lynn-D. Only one question…isn’t the tabernacle empty during communion? I guess I figured that giving proper reverence to the Eucharist before and during receiving is the equivalent to showing reverence to the tabernacle when Christ is present in the tabernacle.

Also, even if I don’t receive His Holy Blood, I stop and briefly bow as I pass…remember, He is present in the chalice.

Oh yes, the tabernacle is empty I might suppose during communion but I still look upon it as the ‘house’ of the lord whether empty or not.

I again agree that his presence is in the chalice as it is in the hand of the priest as we receive. I do bow before receiving the host and don’t when I pass the chalice of His blood or even the tabernacle. Maybe I should.

Lynn-D