Vatican refuses to share sex abuse investigations with U.N. panel

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The Vatican signed the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child in 1990. Nobody forced them to sign the Convention.

ohchr.org/en/professionalinterest/pages/crc.aspx

The list of questions from the UN Committee on the Rights of the Child to the Vatican - July 2013:
ccrjustice.org/files/Holy%20See_List%20of%20Issues_CRC.pdf

And the response of the Vatican - Nov 25, 2013:
ccrjustice.org/files/Holy%20See_Written%20Replies_CRC.pdf
This is same U.N. that has promoted the likes of China, Algeria, Cuba, Saudi Arabia and Russia to its Human Rights Council not so long ago, i.e., November of 2013. :rolleyes: I have a hard time believing that they are concerned with anyone’s rights but their own.
 
Yes, like they*** are helping*** the Syrian refugees right this very moment. That they couldn’t do more is a function of the power of veto built into the UN and used by Russia and China to prevent meaningful action. Also note that the UN’s determination that WMDs had been used in Syria, propelled the deal to destroy their chemical weapons.

As for sex scandals, show me a country/party/organization that doesn’t have those. The UN employs human beings no?
There is no point to the U.N. if countries like Saudia Arabia, Pakistan, Iran, Cuba. . . etc. are part of the U.N., and as such can participate on a global level.
 
Why does the Church need to pass inspection by the UN? Do you have more faith in the UN than you do the Church to do what is right?
You took the words right out of my mouth literally, i.e., it seems some people have more faith in the U.N. than they do their own Church.
 
When and how was this done?
i believe it was the reason given on why they did not have to provide any information on the investigations. I think each diocese is responsible for the investigations in its area, but how can the Holy See be separate from the Roman Catholic Church?
 
Unfortunately, it is not possible to copy and paste from the pdf, but for those interested, here are the replies to the “list of issues.”

tbinternet.ohchr.org/Treaties/CRC/Shared%20Documents/VAT/CRC_C_VAT_Q_2_Add-1_15897_E.pdf

You can also go to this page and in the upper right-hand corner, you can check out different states and their reports. ohchr.org/EN/HRBodies/CRC/Pages/CRCIndex.aspx

After slotting in a few other states, I think Reuters made a mountain out of molehill, but hey it was a nice headline.
 
The point being that even if the Vatican - as a political entity - agreed to the convention, it would seem unreasonable to infer that the terms of the agreement stretch beyond its status as a nation state to include all of its 1.2 billion members worldwide within it. Why should its existence as a “religious” entity necessarily be included in an agreement it signed as a political body? That simply doesn’t make sense to me.

Catholics all over the world belong to Catholicism as a body of believers. The executive that governs the Vatican as a state is not de facto the hierarchy that functions as the leadership of Catholicism as a religious entity, even if it is the same individuals who may formally do both. Catholics world wide do not view the Vatican as their “government” in the same way that they do their home state leadership.

Why would you insist that by signing an agreement with the UN, the Vatican has taken on the SAME role of political governance with regard to all of its 1.2 billion members that nation states do? A more reasonable assumption would be that a political role might be the case as far as representing those who live as citizens in the Vatican state itself, and to whom the terms of the agreement would apply, but there is no reason for assuming that every Catholic in every country of the world should politically be considered citizens of the Vatican and, thereby, also fall under the agreement.
Not to mention the Holy See (not the Vatican, the article confuses these two separate entities) is neither a political entity nor a member nation. The Holy See is a permanent observer only.
 
And anyway, the Catholic Church has done far more than other entities to ensure safety of children. Statistics show that more children are molested by pulic school teachers in the US than by Catholic priests. Why doesn’t the UN ask for the US government to give them information on that?!:rolleyes:

In another development,
catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=19877
Pope Francis has decided to establish a Vatican commission for the protection of young people, in a new global response to the sex-abuse scandal…
The new commission will be responsible for drafting guidelines for the prevention of abuse, developing training programs, advising on cooperation with law-enforcement officials, and promoting care for victims of abuse, in collaboration with experts on the subject. The panel will be composed of experts on sexual abuse and prevention. Pope Francis will issue a document setting forth the specific details of the commission’s work and appointing the first members…
In explaining the role of the new commission, Cardinal O’Malley said that the Church needs a strong pastoral response to the abuse scandal, to complement the existing juridical response. …
 
Only convicted sex offenders names are made public. It seems they are following the laws of most countries. Perhaps some convictions will come out of this new commission. I don’t know if any convicted priests would still be priests. Anyone know?
 
The UN is way too political. There’s no way any confidential information given to it would stay that way. Turning it over wouldn’t help anyone.
My thoughts exactly. The UN is not a governing body in this matter, any criminal activity should be turned over to the local authorities, NOT the UN. Not only does the UN not have any right to even ask, no one should even consider trusting them with any knowledge past the current time of day, and even THAT is iffy.
 
Only convicted sex offenders names are made public. It seems they are following the laws of most countries. Perhaps some convictions will come out of this new commission. I don’t know if any convicted priests would still be priests. Anyone know?
That’s how it should be, but this diocese recently released a list of names of priests who had only been credibly accused. Some of the men are deceased. This to me is totally wrong. archspm.org/resources/articles-detail.php?intResourceID=10863 Too many people seem to assume that Catholic priests have no rights. 😦
 
I do not see how sharing this with the UN helps anyone???

I do believe the Vatican should share with the countries in which the certain priest lives and serves.
 
Then don’t sign treaties obligating you to do so.
The treaty only obligates the countries to fill out a report for the UN. The news story is about an internal investigation, not failure to file a report. The UN has no more right to demand this report than does the New York Times.

I know this will shock many, but the Church has a long history of converting sinners, and this remains its primary goal. The worst sinners are still not outside the mercy of God. This is why the seal of confession is absolute. If an internal investigation was conducted in confidence, and if that confidence was legal and the investigation broke no laws, it should remain in confidence.
 
I better not say what I want to say. I don’t want to get tarred and feathered off this forum… since I just signed up here tonight. 😛

I’ll stand back and hear what the Catholics have to say on this.
Probably not a bad idea considering how other Christians use the child sex trade…
 
reuters.com/article/2013/12/04/us-vatican-abuse-idUSBRE9B304620131204

(Reuters) - The Vatican refused to provide a United Nations rights panel with information on the Church’s internal investigations into the sexual abuse of children by clergy, saying on Tuesday that its policy was to keep such cases confidential.
You mean the same organization whose workers were trading food for sex with minors in Africa?

Now would be a good time for the splinter vs plank Gospel reading.

BTW, at least the Vatican is handling this. What has the UN done about the issue in Africa or the Oil for Food Scandal?

And where was the American left on those issues?
 
Why not release their investigation regarding child abuse? Show us all that steps were taken immediately to stop the abuse, to get rid of the perverts and protect others from abuse.
This is the Universal Church that listens to what the Pope, in Rome, says. The Holy See should be overjoyed to show us all the urgent steps they took.

I, for one, believe this is a great opportunity for the truth to be presented.
St. Paul intensely condemned the idea that Church matters be judged by civil authorities,
non-believers, in Corinthians.

Now, crimes of course should be punished, but these “investigations” also involve innocent people, who shouldn’t have their names and false allegations about them submitted to the U.N. for, obviously, a witch hunt.

You hear the U.N. harp constantly against the “atrociites” committed by Israel in their own defense, but you don’t hear the U.N. demanding, say, the Saudis, submit reports on their abuses of Christians and non-Arabs, do you?

Really, the U.N. is NOT a government anyway, and as a body, its history shows it to be the last organization for holding governments accountable, unless the U.S. which funds them and houses them (in N.Y) opposes the government of course. History shows this to be repeatedly true.

In a sentence, the U.N. largely promotes the culture of death espoused by the U.S. government, so why should the Catholic Church submit “for review” to the U.N. as though it were accountable to them anyway, as only an “observer”?
 
The problem is that the Vatican has failed to cooperate to the extent of the treaty, as well.
With which specific parts of the treaty did the Vatican fail to cooperate?

Also, if I understand the Vatican reply correctly, these are the two pertinent paragraphs detailing why the UN would not receive explicit case details:*[T]aking into account its specific nature, which differs from the structure and the finality of the other Parties to the Convention, the Holy See considers in good faith that some of the committee’s explanation requests refer to concrete situations that fall outside the direct control of the Holy See, since they concern matters for which Catholic persons and institutions present in other countries are responsible. For this reason, the interpretation, evaluation and legal prosecution of these matters and situations come under the competence of the juridical system of the States concerned.

On the other hand, the Holy See provides all the necessary information requested by the Committee with regard to what takes place within Vatican City State, over which territory it exercises full jurisdiction and with regard to which it therefore has the obligation to implement fully the Convention and oversee its application.*
 
Really, the U.N. is NOT a government anyway, ?
This is the limitation of the United Nations. It has no authority for governance. Authority is derived from the will of the people. Has anyone ever seen on a ballot where we vote for United Nations representation or leadership? Of course not. That is because it is not a government.
 
To bring this thread back to life.
UN published its report today. LINK
What are your comments? Especially to their request for Church to review its social and moral teachings (about sexuality, homosexuals, contraception and abortion).

I’d say the UN has passed the line, they are in no way authorized to ask the Church to change its teachings. I find it positive that the Vatican has cooperated nonetheless with the committee, to show the Church is not hiding anything, on the contrary. However, it seems to me as if the report has been written even before the talks started, and that they didn’t really care about what bishops representing the Church had to say about it.
 
What are your comments? Especially to their request for Church to review its social and moral teachings (about sexuality, homosexuals, contraception and abortion).

I’d say the UN has passed the line, they are in no way authorized to ask the Church to change its teachings. I find it positive that the Vatican has cooperated nonetheless with the committee, to show the Church is not hiding anything, on the contrary. However, it seems to me as if the report has been written even before the talks started, and that they didn’t really care about what bishops representing the Church had to say about it.
The UN is acting morally indignant about the abuse scandals while, at the same time, trying to pressure the Catholic Church to abandon Her teachings on sexual morality. The UN is either misguided or disingenuous since what they are advocating would only make things worse.
 
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