Vatican Says No to Anti-Mosque Proposal in Italy

[notsmart]

Many mosques are funded with money from entities whose main purpose is to preach to moderate muslim youth jihad against the West. That’s just a plain fact.

I was thinking the same thing actually.

There is a large mosque about 8 min from here. On the fourth of July, their mosque was on the route to the fireworks display. Their people were trying to tie up the road leading up to it.
Police let them get away with blocking the roads with their if you want to call it, march? demonstration? Procession?
I have no idea what you can call it. But police finally broke them up, and put crossing guards in front of it to direct traffic and break up their protest.

 

[pnewton]

Many mosques are funded with money from entities whose main purpose is to preach to moderate muslim youth jihad against the West. That’s just a plain fact.

Then better to spend the money on brick and mortar than bombs and guns.

Does anyone really think that the presence or absence of a particular building will prevent terrorists from meeting? In a pinch, would not a Starbucks suffice? The problem with Islam is the message of the radicals, not the architecture. If anything, Christians should well understand that persecution does not suppress the growth of radicalist ideas.

 

[notsmart]

Then better to spend the money on brick and mortar than bombs and guns.

Does anyone really think that the presence or absence of a particular building will prevent terrorists from meeting? In a pinch, would not a Starbucks suffice? The problem with Islam is the message of the radicals, not the architecture. If anything, Christians should well understand that persecution does not suppress the growth of radicalist ideas.

That is a good point.
I just dont think they could be a unifyed front, if not directed by some leader. Its no coincidence that they tried to suppress traffic to the fourth of july fireworks display here. You cant say that suddenly several hundred people had the same idea on their own at the same time?
I think they only did what they were told to do.

 

[paarsurrey]

I really don’t think these historical religious bashings are all that relevant. For all those who say Catholicism never was spread by the sword, I might recommend a look to Catholicism as propagated in Latin America. Now, it was a political reign’s interest to do this and it was for the glory of Spain with Christianity coming along as a fellow traveler. I can’t help but suspect that the advance of Islam was the same. That is, the advance of the Moghuls was about the glory of the Moghuls and Islam was simply a fellow traveler.

I will say, that Jews lived better under the Moors than they did under the Christians. It’s why they were ethnically cleansed after the reconquest of Europe. Because the Christian rulers did not trust them. Of course, the rulers could have simply provided them the equivalent rights they had received under the Moors, but I guess it was easier to simply drive them out.

The one thing I agree with Marx about is that most of the clashes of history have been about class interests and power, not about other facing interests. For instance, the Protestant Reformation may have had theological underpinnings, but it was also a revolt of the German burghers against the aristocracy. The western Catholic Church got caught in the crosshairs because it had sided with the aristocracy and acted as a gatekeeper with the divine rights of monarchs. So I would imagine Islam’s spread had some class issues as well.

Hi

I appreciate your fair analysis.

I love Buddha and Krishna as I do love Jesus and Mary.

Thanks

 

[notsmart]

Hi

I appreciate your fair analysis.

I love Buddha and Krishna as I do love Jesus and Mary.

Thanks

Are you not requried to say PBUH each time you mention Jesus?

 

[swariffin]

It remains a fact that the muslim population in europe is growing rapidly… Do muslims, because they follow a different faith, not deserve a place to worship?

I think Christ’s model for us, is to love our “enemies” (though I would hardly call the muslim PEOPLE my enemies… the system of belief as opposed to Christ, yes, but not the people.) I think by demonstrating charity in this instance, it is showing that we are not an oppressive people, but that we have charity towards others. Even someone who does not worship Christ, may still be Christ in our lives.

I like to think of mother theresa, and how she saw the face of Jesus in every person she encountered

The problem is, when there is a Muslim community is a certain region, they begin to think that the Government of that region must be an Islamic government.

 

[Valke2]

Then better to spend the money on brick and mortar than bombs and guns.

Does anyone really think that the presence or absence of a particular building will prevent terrorists from meeting? In a pinch, would not a Starbucks suffice? The problem with Islam is the message of the radicals, not the architecture. If anything, Christians should well understand that persecution does not suppress the growth of radicalist ideas.

THat’s not the fear. Here’s the fear. A mosque is built with the intention of spreading hatred for the West and/or promoting the most fundamental and oppresive aspects of Islam – something that is not widely adopted by most muslims. The Mosque offers schooling for children in which the same doctrine is taught.

It is not simply a place for terrorists to meet. It is a place for teaching the sacredness of jihad with the west. It is a place for rasing holy warriors.

A country like Saudia Arabia is anxious to export this type of radical Islam. To paraphrase a Bushism, they are exporting it over there (Europe) so that they don’t have to have it over here (Saudi Arabia). But you can’t blame solely the middle east of the muslims for doing this. After all, it is the West that has given the cash to do this. As I’ve stated before, if we want to really fight terrorism than we need to stop funding it through oil purchases as quickly possible.

 

[paarsurrey]

A mosque is built with the intention of spreading hatred for the West and/or promoting the most fundamental and oppresive aspects of Islam – something that is not widely adopted by most muslims. The Mosque offers schooling for children in which the same doctrine is taught.

Hi

I disagree with you.

I think you are doing over simplification or over-generalization. No Ahamdia Muslim Mosque anywhere in the world is involved in any such activities.

Thanks

 

[dzheremi]

And the Ahmadiyya are how much, percentage-wise, of the world total? I’m not disagreeing with you, just wondering how much of an impact a small sect that is considered to be heretical to most Muslims can have on the world situation.

 

[paarsurrey]

And the Ahmadiyya are how much, percentage-wise, of the world total? I’m not disagreeing with you, just wondering how much of an impact a small sect that is considered to be heretical to most Muslims can have on the world situation.

Hi

Second Coming 1835-1908 has more following, in my opinion, than Jesus had in his ministry till he disapperared from Judea and went to India.

The question is if truth has ,supposedly, not large numbers, should it be ignored?

Didn’t the Jews believe that Jesus was heretical?

I love Jesus and Mary as I do love Buddha and Krishna.

Thanks

 

[Feanor]

Hi parsurrey,

I am just following up on my question as to whether you would support a Catholic Church being established in Saudi Arabia? Allowing Christians to own crucifixes would be nice too?

I have stated that I have no issue with Mosques being established in Italy so I am hopeful if this charity is reciprocated.

Thanks and Peace to you,

 

[inJESUS]

When we point out to Islamic history, it’d be useless if not combined to ideology because actions are not always based on belief/ideology, but they sometimes are, that is why comparing what Christians did with what Muslims did must be compared in terms of ideology, not just the action.

 

[Valke2]

Hi

I disagree with you.

I think you are doing over simplification or over-generalization. No Ahamdia Muslim Mosque anywhere in the world is involved in any such activities.

Thanks

My apologies for my poor grammar. I did not mean to say that every mosque is built ot spread the idea of jihad. I mean that there is so much money being given to what is called “desert Islam”, that they have been able to spread their views throughout the muslim world. If it weren’t for oil, they would not have the access to moderate muslims that they are enjoying today.

This is especially true in Pakistan, for example, where a very large portion of the population can’t afford to send their children to decent schools. So they send them to schools that offer a good education and are free == built by organizations dedicated to waging war against the West.

The problem is oil, which generates money. And too much money is going to the people who represent the worst elements of Islam.

 

[dzheremi]

Hi

Second Coming 1835-1908 has more following, in my opinion, than Jesus had in his ministry till he disapperared from Judea and went to India.

The question is if truth has ,supposedly, not large numbers, should it be ignored?

Didn’t the Jews believe that Jesus was heretical?

I love Jesus and Mary as I do love Buddha and Krishna.

Thanks

The question is not whether or not truth should be ignored, but whether or not a small, heretical sect can make a big impact on what those outside of it do. The comparison with Jesus is not apt, since the believers in Jesus’ divinity ceased to be considered as “heretical Jews” (which, yes, you are right, they certainly were) after some generations (first mentioned as a separate group in the book of Acts). Ahmadiyya, by contrast, still consider themselves Muslims no matter what the Orthodox wings of Islam have to say about their theology. This would be comparable to Christianity only if Christians today insisted on being referred to as Jews, despite having an unorthodox interpretation of the Jewish scriptures that is at odds with that of the Jews themsleves.

 

[Feanor]

I still would love to have a response from parrsurrey or any muslim.

Since the Vatican has allowed mosques in Italy should Catholic Churches be allowed in Saudi Arabia?

 

[ChristIsLord]

It remains a fact that the muslim population in europe is growing rapidly… Do muslims, because they follow a different faith, not deserve a place to worship?

not until we see reciprocity from the muslim world, that’s my take. you can’t have a dialogue with a group of people who want to take take take and give nothing back. look at christians in muslim lands who have to pay a tax just for being christian, who can’t fix thier delapidated churches or build new ones, who are treated as second class citizens. no sorry with zero reciprocity they should not be allowed to build new mosques in europe. i’m sick of seeing rome pander to the muslim invasion of europe…

 

[paarsurrey]

I still would love to have a response from parrsurrey or any muslim.

Since the Vatican has allowed mosques in Italy should Catholic Churches be allowed in Saudi Arabia?

Hi

Well I have already answered this on the thread of building a mosque in Russia.

Personally, I don’t see a problem in building a church in Saudi Arabia.

It is however between the Vatican and the rulers in Saudi Arabia to decide politically. Already there are plenty of Churches in Muslim countries; one more won’t make a difference.

Thanks

 

[Feanor]

Great- sorry I didn’t see your answer. I appreciate it!

I am not of the overly narrow minded type. I say the more churches/mosques/temples the better as long as no one causes any trouble.

Sometimes the civil authorities might have to periodically check out suspicious chuches/mosques/temples suspected of encouraging civil unrest or worse- killing.

 

[paarsurrey]

Great- sorry I didn’t see your answer. I appreciate it!

I am not of the overly narrow minded type. I say the more churches/mosques/temples the better as long as no one causes any trouble.

Sometimes the civil authorities might have to periodically check out suspicious chuches/mosques/temples suspected of encouraging civil unrest or worse- killing.

Hi

Thanks for your appreciation.

Regards

 

[swariffin]

Hi

Well I have already answered this on the thread of building a mosque in Russia.

Personally, I don’t see a problem in building a church in Saudi Arabia.

It is however between the Vatican and the rulers in Saudi Arabia to decide politically. Already there are plenty of Churches in Muslim countries; one more won’t make a difference.

Thanks

To worship God in whatever religion is the most fundamental human right. Building a place of worship according to a religion, is also a fundamental human right.