Vatican: Sex abuse not just a Catholic problem

[DWPC]

msnbc.msn.com/id/19806068/

Two weeks ago, the Vatican releases the ridiculous “Ten Commandments for Driving”; last week, the Pope’s letter explicitly insulting other Christian churches, now this ‘we want to help them deal with their abuse issues’ announcement aimed at other churches. Its as if someone in the Curia is deliberately trying to make the Catholic Church look as ridiculous as possible.

Does anyone in the Vatican understand public relations??? Someone…please tell them, when you want to get out of a hole, first, STOP DIGGING!!

 

[gus]

msnbc.msn.com/id/19806068/

Two weeks ago, the Vatican releases the ridiculous “Ten Commandments for Driving”; last week, the Pope’s letter explicitly insulting other Christian churches, now this ‘we want to help them deal with their abuse issues’ announcement aimed at other churches. Its as if someone in the Curia is deliberately trying to make the Catholic Church look as ridiculous as possible.

Does anyone in the Vatican understand public relations??? Someone…please tell them, when you want to get out of a hole, first, STOP DIGGING!!

Did you actually get by the MSM headlines on any of the documents? I suggest you read them and compare them to the headlines.
Also since we are the most scrutinized institution with regard to child abuse any expertise we have gained should be shared to prevent future abuse.To do less would be negligent
Do you really understand the scope of abuse?
Some statistics say 1 in every 3 females and 1 and every 4 males has been abused. Usually by a family member.
The whole Catholic scandal was 10,000 reports over a 50 year period
Even if under-reported by 10 times
The Church is a tiny fraction of the problem

 

[Gerry_Hunter]

Oh I’m confident they know about PR, and they do not let considerations pertinent to it stand in the way of proclaiming the truth. I’m sure they fully expect to be misrepresented, even by some Catholics.

Blessings,

Gerry

 

[Catholig]

msnbc.msn.com/id/19806068/

Two weeks ago, the Vatican releases the ridiculous “Ten Commandments for Driving”; last week, the Pope’s letter explicitly insulting other Christian churches, now this ‘we want to help them deal with their abuse issues’ announcement aimed at other churches. Its as if someone in the Curia is deliberately trying to make the Catholic Church look as ridiculous as possible.

Does anyone in the Vatican understand public relations??? Someone…please tell them, when you want to get out of a hole, first, STOP DIGGING!!

I might agree with you about the “Ten Commandments for Driving”, however the Pope’s letter concerning Christian Communities not in union with Rome only reaffirmed the Traditional position of the Roman Catholic Church. It is NOT ridiculous.

As for this the Church saying that it is not the only one to have to deal with sexual abuse problems - that’s true. And I don’t think that is ridiculous either - it is quite possible that Rome wants to make sure that this never happens again.

Catholig

 

[estesbob]

Does anyone in the Vatican understand public relations??? Someone…please tell them, when you want to get out of a hole, first, STOP DIGGING!!

Since when should a Church be interested in Public Relations?

 

[DWPC]

Do you really understand the scope of abuse?
Some statistics say 1 in every 3 females and 1 and every 4 males has been abused. Usually by a family member.
The whole Catholic scandal was 10,000 reports over a 50 year period
Even if under-reported by 10 times
The Church is a tiny fraction of the problem

Those figures are irrelevant. The scandal isn’t about general sexual abuse, but about the institutional enabling of serial child rapists by responsible Church authorities. There is a huge difference between an ordained priest abusing his very special trust and common abuse.

 

[Tom317]

Those figures are irrelevant. The scandal isn’t about general sexual abuse, but about the institutional enabling of serial child rapists by responsible Church authorities. There is a huge difference between an ordained priest abusing his very special trust and common abuse.

The stats matter. I have recently read stats that reflect Protestant Churches have 250 reports every week about abuse of some kind or another (including child absue similar to what the Catholic Church is guilty of). I have also read that public schools sexual abuse rates remain high, and the highest level of sexual abuse happens in children homes. So, yes it matters and yes it is VERY important for the RCC to bring attention to this horrible problem across our culture. The RCC has learned the hard way what price kids pay when they are abused and the RCC wants to help that not happen anywhere.

As for the Pope’s recent statement about the seperated Churches, the Pope was speaking to Catholics, trying to remind them who we are…that is something the Pope is supposed to do.

 

[DWPC]

I might agree with you about the “Ten Commandments for Driving”, however the Pope’s letter concerning Christian Communities not in union with Rome only reaffirmed the Traditional position of the Roman Catholic Church. It is NOT ridiculous.

I didn’t say it was ridiculous, I said it was insulting. It was an unwarranted public humiliation of other Christians that could have been worded in a non-confrontational manner. “Defective”? “Wounded”? Those are essentially fighting words.

As for this the Church saying that it is not the only one to have to deal with sexual abuse problems - that’s true. And I don’t think that is ridiculous either - it is quite possible that Rome wants to make sure that this never happens again.

Catholig

The subject statement is an example of stunning hubris. As long as certain pedophile-enabling bishops are still employed running diocese, the Church has no business giving advice on the subject to any other institution, except perhaps about damage control when things blow up.

 

[Catholig]

I didn’t say it was ridiculous, I said it was insulting. It was an unwarranted public humiliation of other Christians that could have been worded in a non-confrontational manner. “Defective”? “Wounded”? Those are essentially fighting words.

It doesn’t matter if it offends other Christians because that is what we, as catholics believe. We are the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.

The subject statement is an example of stunning hubris. As long as certain pedophile-enabling bishops are still employed running diocese, the Church has no business giving advice on the subject to any other institution, except perhaps about damage control when things blow up.

Are pedophile-enabling bishops sitll employed running diocese? If so who, and how much involvement did they actually have.

Catholig

 

[Tom317]

I didn’t say it was ridiculous, I said it was insulting. It was an unwarranted public humiliation of other Christians that could have been worded in a non-confrontational manner. “Defective”? “Wounded”? Those are essentially fighting words.

The are defective and wounded, they are not true chruches, those are facts. It is about time to stop lying.

The subject statement is an example of stunning hubris. As long as certain pedophile-enabling bishops are still employed running diocese, the Church has no business giving advice on the subject to any other institution, except perhaps about damage control when things blow up.

Tell me truly, who is better to talk to people about the dangers of illegal drug use, the person who used them and escape death, or a person who has never used them?

 

[DWPC]

The are defective and wounded, they are not true chruches, those are facts. It is about time to stop lying.

Its not the underlying meaning, but the inflammatory language and off-handed manner of its release. If governments spoke that way, the world would be a cinder.

Tell me truly, who is better to talk to people about the dangers of illegal drug use, the person who used them and escape death, or a person who has never used them?

I’d want to be quite sure he was off the stuff first.

 

[Tom317]

Its not the underlying meaning, but the inflammatory language and off-handed manner of its release. If governments spoke that way, the world would be a cinder.

We have seen 40 years of soft wording the real truth. It is time to speak plainly. The Pope was speaking to Catholics, not to non-Catholics and I have no clude why any non-Catholic would give a whit what the Pope says, if they do care then they should become Catholic. Catholics need to be strongly reminded of who they are.

I’d want to be quite sure he was off the stuff first.

Yes, of course, yet first hand experience always sells better then second hand. The Church has first hand experience with the subject of sexual abuse and it will be feeling the pain for many years to come. They have a far more “Moral” ground to speak then any other institution because no other institution has been forced to open-up like the Church has.

 

[francesco920]

msnbc.msn.com/id/19806068/

Two weeks ago, the Vatican releases the ridiculous “Ten Commandments for Driving”; last week, the Pope’s letter explicitly insulting other Christian churches, now this ‘we want to help them deal with their abuse issues’ announcement aimed at other churches. Its as if someone in the Curia is deliberately trying to make the Catholic Church look as ridiculous as possible.

Does anyone in the Vatican understand public relations??? Someone…please tell them, when you want to get out of a hole, first, STOP DIGGING!!

I agree with you only about the “Ten Commandments for Driving.” However I strongly disagree with you about the CDF document concerning the Church. You charge that the document was “explicitly insulting” to other Christian confessions. Please quote the alleged explicit insults in the document, because I did not see any.

 

[NewUlm1976_2000]

Those figures are irrelevant. The scandal isn’t about general sexual abuse, but about the institutional enabling of serial child rapists by responsible Church authorities. There is a huge difference between an ordained priest abusing his very special trust and common abuse.

Exactly, and the Vatican is correct, all religions are prone to this, but do often not get the press because they are smaller churches to begin with. It is wrong no matter who does it.

 

[DailyBread]

Yeah, the Vatican needs to wise up on PR stuff, since how the rest of society measures you is really the measuring stick of God… ummm yeah and I have a bridge to sell in NJ.
Sorry to get off on this, but Jesus said we would be rejected and hated by the world. I mean if we look at PR jobs, then we would have to criticize Our Lord for standing for the eucharist in John 6 when others left, when others especialy the Pharisees questioned his teachings, and most especially the way He died. All these things, that there is one true Church that Christ founded, that we need to have respect while driving on the roads (I mean if you lived in Italy you would see why), and that they wish to help others prevent abuse (which the Church got criticized for not doing originally by some of its members), are true and we dont look to obey man, but rather God as the Apostles in Acts say!

 

[DWPC]

I agree with you only about the “Ten Commandments for Driving.” However I strongly disagree with you about the CDF document concerning the Church. You charge that the document was “explicitly insulting” to other Christian confessions. Please quote the alleged explicit insults in the document, because I did not see any.

I’ve heard comments from Anglican friends, and they felt deeply offended, not by the theological issues (which they understand), but by the brusque and dismissive *language * of the statement. I know what the Pope was trying to say, and I’ll be charitable and blame it on bad translation. *Really *bad translation. By someone apparently fluent only in stilted 18th Century English. That it was meant for the Faithful is irrelevant when its issued so publicly. Most Catholics heard it not from their priest or bishop, but from CNN…who I’m sure enjoyed the hell out the Pope putting his foot in his mouth again (i.e., like in Brazil last month).

If you disagree with your nieghbor you don’t send a letter to the local paper announcing to the world that “I believe that Joe Smith is defective”. Heck, why don’t we just go back to calling Protestants heretics? After all, aren’t they?

 

[gus]

Those figures are irrelevant. The scandal isn’t about general sexual abuse, but about the institutional enabling of serial child rapists by responsible Church authorities. There is a huge difference between an ordained priest abusing his very special trust and common abuse.

Trust me there is no difference from the child’s perspective
who the commits the crime.
The great focus on the Church’s problems gives every one else a pass. This cover you and people like you give really isn’t any different the thinking of the bishop’s.

 

[francesco920]

I’ve heard comments from Anglican friends, and they felt deeply offended, not by the theological issues (which they understand), but by the brusque and dismissive *language * of the statement. I know what the Pope was trying to say, and I’ll be charitable and blame it on bad translation. *Really *bad translation. By someone apparently fluent only in stilted 18th Century English. That it was meant for the Faithful is irrelevant when its issued so publicly. Most Catholics heard it not from their priest or bishop, but from CNN…who I’m sure enjoyed the hell out the Pope putting his foot in his mouth again (i.e., like in Brazil last month).

If you disagree with your nieghbor you don’t send a letter to the local paper announcing to the world that “I believe that Joe Smith is defective”. Heck, why don’t we just go back to calling Protestants heretics? After all, aren’t they?

I disagree that the language is at all offensive. This is the paragraph you seem to take issue with (my emphasis):

“It follows that these separated churches and Communities, though we believe they suffer from defects, are deprived neither of significance nor importance in the mystery of salvation. In fact the Spirit of Christ has not refrained from using them as instruments of salvation, whose value derives from that fullness of grace and of truth which has been entrusted to the Catholic Church”[12].

Wow, so offensive…

(Notice that that is a quote from the Vatican II document Unitatis redintegratio.)

In my opinion, everybody has to grow up. Nothing in this document was new. Nothing was offensive unless you adhere to radical political correctness. The Pope wanted to clear up these questions once and for all, and that’s what he did. That IS his duty. Let’s remember that had it not been for the modernists/relativists who badly misinterpreted Vatican II and caused so much confusion, these types of documents from the CDF would not be necessary.

And yes, we as Catholics DO have a duty to tell non-Catholic Christians that they lack something in their faith. After all, if we truly love our non-Catholic brothers and sisters, we want them to come to the fullness of the faith don’t we?

Here is the Q&A specifically about protestant confessions:

FIFTH QUESTION
Why do the texts of the Council and those of the Magisterium since the Council not use the title of “Church” with regard to those Christian Communities born out of the Reformation of the sixteenth century?
RESPONSE
According to Catholic doctrine, these Communities do not enjoy apostolic succession in the sacrament of Orders, and are, therefore, deprived of a constitutive element of the Church. These ecclesial Communities which, specifically because of the absence of the sacramental priesthood, have not preserved the genuine and integral substance of the Eucharistic Mystery[19] cannot, according to Catholic doctrine, be called “Churches” in the proper sense[20].

Straightforward, honest, not new, not surprising, and not offensive in the least.

 

[Digitonomy]

Oh I’m confident they know about PR, and they do not let considerations pertinent to it stand in the way of proclaiming the truth.

estesbob:

Since when should a Church be interested in Public Relations?

A Church should only be interested in public relations if it feels that communicating with the public would benefit its mission.

 

[Scottgun]

Public relations? Please. The Church doesn’t bother because the Church can’t win because there is an agenda being pushed: getting people to believe that wrongdoings in the Church are not caused by the individuals, but by Catholic teachings and disciplines themselves.

This nothing new. Check out this from the 1800’s:

bettnet.dyndns.org/gallery/anticatholic/source/cup2.html

Get that? Witholding the cup from the laity causes alcoholism. This is an absurd example, but nothing has really changed since then. Today everyone believes celibacy causes sexual repression, and sexual repression causes sexual deviancy. Therefore, the Church discipline of celibacy causes sex abuse. The Church is right to call attention to abuses in other sectors of life (which occur with same frequency) because it blows this canard out of the water.