Vatican: Sex abuse not just a Catholic problem

[Tom317]

I’ve heard comments from Anglican friends, and they felt deeply offended, not by the theological issues (which they understand), but by the brusque and dismissive *language * of the statement. I know what the Pope was trying to say, and I’ll be charitable and blame it on bad translation. *Really *bad translation. By someone apparently fluent only in stilted 18th Century English. That it was meant for the Faithful is irrelevant when its issued so publicly. Most Catholics heard it not from their priest or bishop, but from CNN…who I’m sure enjoyed the hell out the Pope putting his foot in his mouth again (i.e., like in Brazil last month).

If you disagree with your nieghbor you don’t send a letter to the local paper announcing to the world that “I believe that Joe Smith is defective”. Heck, why don’t we just go back to calling Protestants heretics? After all, aren’t they?

You don’t get it do you? We have seen 40 years of Catholics losing their faith and becoming “Protestant-lite” in many ways. The Pope had to address it and it was not going to be “polite” no matter what he said. Souls are at risk, this is no game, no living room or parlor, it is about eternal life and millions upon millions of Catholic souls have been at risk for the last 40 years.

 

[stashko]

Trust me there is no difference from the child’s perspective
who the commits the crime.
The great focus on the Church’s problems gives every one else a pass. This cover you and people like you give really isn’t any different the thinking of the bishop’s.

sexual abuse by the clergy isnt just a catholic problem…since the catholic church is bigger than the other Protestant and orthodox churches ,the sexual abuse is happening on a greater scale…the money so far payed out to the victims 2 billion for the 1950 to the present abuses and 660 million yet to be payed…plus 500 and so cases yet pending…it looks to me that the supreme pontiff isnt doing his job,he should be aware of what is going on…after all he is the supreme pontiff in the shoes of peter…one of the popes john paul the second i believe had a u.s. cardinal brought to the vatican to prevent him being prosecuted for shifting abusive priest,successor of peter at his finest sad sad sad …im glad as a orthodox christian ,we dont have such a thing as a supreme pontiff it doesnt seem to be work.ing…our patriarch ,metropolitans,bishops ,priests can easily be replaced …if they allowed this evil to continue for years and years…lord save thy children …stashko

 

[Tom317]

Correction to post #7. I accidently stated that non-Catholic Churches had 250 reports of abuse per week…that was a mistake in typing (and a huge error). There are 250 cases of sexual abuse reported every year, not per week (multiply that number by decades as with the Catholic abuse crisis and you will see the number becomes quite ugly).

Go here:
mondaymorninginsight.com/index.php/site/comments/protestant_church_staff_sex_abuse_over_250_reported_cases_a_year/

 

[DWPC]

Priests who rape children are really no big deal. Bishops who shuffle them around are just protecting the Church. Heck, Baptists preachers and teachers do it too. They’re just picking on us poor persecuted Catholics again.

Thanks for clarifying that. I understand now. Boy, do I understand.

 

[rlg94086]

Priests who rape children are really no big deal. Bishops who shuffle them around are just protecting the Church. Heck, Baptists preachers and teachers do it too. They’re just picking on us poor persecuted Catholics again.

Thanks for clarifying that. I understand now. Boy, do I understand.

To whom are you responding? No one has written anything to that effect in this thread and the article doesn’t state that. Are you hearing voices in your head?

 

[masondoggy]

msnbc.msn.com/id/19806068/

Two weeks ago, the Vatican releases the ridiculous “Ten Commandments for Driving”; last week, the Pope’s letter explicitly insulting other Christian churches, now this ‘we want to help them deal with their abuse issues’ announcement aimed at other churches. Its as if someone in the Curia is deliberately trying to make the Catholic Church look as ridiculous as possible.

Does anyone in the Vatican understand public relations??? Someone…please tell them, when you want to get out of a hole, first, STOP DIGGING!!

Would you prefer that the Church didn’t do anything at all to address this problem? Would that make you happy?

Oh, and …just for the record. The Church isn’t in the business of “public relations”. The Church is in the business of representing Christ. Please tell me where Christ was ever concerned about upsetting the public by His statements…

 

[estesbob]

To whom are you responding? No one has written anything to that effect in this thread and the article doesn’t state that. Are you hearing voices in your head?

DWPC is in Anti-catholic heaven . He makes increasingly absurd, inflammatory comments and sits back waiting for indignant responses. Best way to handle him is to ignore him.

 

[Tom317]

Priests who rape children are really no big deal. Bishops who shuffle them around are just protecting the Church. Heck, Baptists preachers and teachers do it too. They’re just picking on us poor persecuted Catholics again.

Thanks for clarifying that. I understand now. Boy, do I understand.

You are taking an irrational and quite emotional leap off the edge with this response.

No-one here defends the abuse of children, in fact we are saying all abuse of children should ellimated (as the Church is trying to say). That includes in the RCC and EVERYWHERE else.

Tell me something, when Enron did their horrible deeds and caused thousands to lose incredible sums of money (lives ruined, etc.), should the country just think that was the only company, or should we realize that corporate corruption is not relegated to only one corporation?

Likewise, isn’t it sexual abuse against children the real problem here (along with leaders who help protect the abusers)? And, shouldn’t we be concerned about sexual abuse of children everywhere? Or, do you think that sexual abuse is only happening in the RCC, or that somehow it is worse then a parent or family member or a teacher abusing a child?

Slow down, take a breath, stop trying to be “right,” stop trying to win a debate and think about what is right for the children, not your own ego.

 

[Digitonomy]

Public relations? Please. The Church doesn’t bother because the Church can’t win because there is an agenda being pushed

Using this logic, it is reasonable to suppose that the tobacco companies, the snack food companies, etc don’t engage in public relations because there is an agenda being pushed against them. Nothing could be further from the truth. The need to overcome, or at least minimize such agendas, makes it all the more necessary for organizations to pursue public relations.

masondoggy:

Oh, and …just for the record. The Church isn’t in the business of “public relations”.

Are you seriously claiming the Vatican has not hired anyone for its public relations needs?

masondoggy:

Please tell me where Christ was ever concerned about upsetting the public by His statements…

The Gospels are full of situations where Jesus used either a cunning turn of phrase, or simply a calm, non-belligerant statement in order to “win” a situation that he was presented with. One such example would be the stoning of the adulteress (John 8:2-11): Jesus didn’t say “You’re a band of bloodthirsty hypocrites. Desist at once!” It might have been the truth to say such a thing, but by instead using good public relations he defused the situation without antagonizing anyone directly.

 

[cathgal]

I didn’t say it was ridiculous, I said it was insulting. It was an unwarranted public humiliation of other Christians that could have been worded in a non-confrontational manner. “Defective”? “Wounded”? Those are essentially fighting words.

Well…you sure sounded like a smart person. So what words do you suggest that we Catholics use to define the protestant’s position ???
No more compromises nor feel-good kind of thing OK ?

The subject statement is an example of stunning hubris. As long as certain pedophile-enabling bishops are still employed running diocese, the Church has no business giving advice on the subject to any other institution, except perhaps about damage control when things blow up.

And what kind of advice is that?
To check if there are thorns in their eyes? This advice, if heeded, can save alot of victims in the near future. You ever thought of that ?

It’s always best to learn the mistake from the one who made mistakes, agree ??

 

[prodigal-sun]

Priests who rape children are really no big deal. Bishops who shuffle them around are just protecting the Church. Heck, Baptists preachers and teachers do it too. They’re just picking on us poor persecuted Catholics again.

Thanks for clarifying that. I understand now. Boy, do I understand.

So this is what you got out of the responses given by your fellow Catholics! I just don’t see how that is possible after reading all of the posts. The above quote however does explain why you believe the pope was insulting our protestant brothers & sisters.

sheesh man get a grip!

 

[cathgal]

Heck, why don’t we just go back to calling Protestants heretics? After all, aren’t they?

Ummm…no.

Unless they were Catholics to begin with.

 

[Riley259]

msnbc.msn.com/id/19806068/

Two weeks ago, the Vatican releases the ridiculous “Ten Commandments for Driving”; last week, the Pope’s letter explicitly insulting other Christian churches, now this ‘we want to help them deal with their abuse issues’ announcement aimed at other churches. Its as if someone in the Curia is deliberately trying to make the Catholic Church look as ridiculous as possible.

Does anyone in the Vatican understand public relations??? Someone…please tell them, when you want to get out of a hole, first, STOP DIGGING!!

Would you please actually read the document clarifying the Catholic church’s role - there’s nothing at all ridiculous about it because it speaks the truth. I wouldn’t be Catholic if I didn’t agree with that document 100%. The Ten Commandments of Driving was a light but useful reminder to those inclined to road rage to take a breath and relax while their driving and the Church’s experience in the sex abuse scandal can be invaluable for other organizations and denominations suffering the same fate (and they are at just as high a rate as the Catholic church did).

 

[Linda_Marie]

Addressing the title of this thread:
It is not just a religious problem either.

I think one of the side-effects of the Catholic clergy abuse scandal is that no one seems to see anybody else abusing children. If they do, it is being discounted because the accused isn’t a priest. Sort of - Catholic priests abuse children, this accused person isn’t a Catholic priest, ergo, no abuse has occurred.

Here in Western Australia last year, the Education Department was caught out shifting teachers who had abused children around to other schools. This has been happening for years with the Education Department covering up the extent of the abuse. Unfortunately, this has been swept under the carpet again and the Education Department has come out squeaky clean. So clean, in fact, that most of the on-line news stories about it seem to have been cleaned up too.

loop.wa.gov.au/mr_frame.asp?file=08-11-2006%20~%20Collier%20~%20Another%20week%20in%20education%20another%20damning%20report.htm

edwatch.blogspot.com/2006_10_15_archive.html
West Australia education chief quits over sex ‘cover-up’
(15 October 2006)
The head of Western Australia’s Education department has resigned after a damning report that found sexual misconduct is not being properly handled in the state’s schools. In a scathing report, the state’s Corruption and Crime Commission said the Department of Education and Training repeatedly covered up allegations of sexual abuse of children by teachers, and was more concerned with protecting the welfare of staff than students. Department of Education and Training (DET) director general Paul Albert has agreed to leave the job after a meeting overnight with Premier Alan Carpenter.
The CCC revealed that in one case where a teacher was convicted of indecently dealing with a child under 13, the department had responded by transferring him to another school.
In another case, a school principal and deputy principal were found to have covered up a relationship between a teacher and student after the teacher agreed to resign. The CCC said the deputy principal was aware the teacher had been investigated for inappropriate conduct with an under-age girl at another school five years earlier but he was allowed to resign before an investigation was conducted into the latest allegation.

Isn’t this exactly the same as bishops moving abusing priests to different parishes? Having the chief bureaucrat fall on his sword and issuing new guidelines really isn’t enough.

Additionally, just breaking, is a HUGE HUGE child sexual abuse scandal in some Aboriginal communities. Young girls [it was stated in the paper] view being raped by elders as just part of life. Boys are running away from initiation rites because they are being gang-raped. STD’s are rampant. Several communities have been taken over by the Federal government, they have sent in police and troops to assist. So far, police have arrested many elders and other men of varying ages, including teenagers. (27 from Kalumbaru alone).

The thing is, the respective State Governments have known about this abuse for years and have done nothing, refusing to interfere in what they deemed to be ‘indigenous culture’.

Magistrate hits out over Kalumbaru child sex

12th July 2007, 12:30 WST
A Perth magistrate has accused Aboriginal elders in Kalumbaru of taking advantage of their “mythical” status to sexually abuse children in the community for 20 years.
thewest.com.au/default.aspx?MenuID=145&ContentID=34141

Unfortunately, I can only find a few stories on-line. The newspaper was full of them.
Several stories here:
thewest.com.au/SearchResults.aspx?Keywords=child+sex+abuse&Option=WEST

abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/07/17/1980462.htm

abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/07/18/1981292.htm

No institution, be it religious or secular, should have a free pass on child sex abuse. Schools, churches and government social services would do well to clean their own houses instead climbing onto their high-horses and castigating the Church for pointing out that child sex abuses are occurring and being covered up in their own backyards and on their watch.

 

[Scottgun]

Using this logic, it is reasonable to suppose that the tobacco companies, the snack food companies, etc don’t engage in public relations because there is an agenda being pushed against them.

This is not my point. The op’s contention is that the Vatican does not understand public relations. Depends on what we mean by pr. Obviously the Vatican deals with the public and media and therefore does public relations. But when many of us think of pr, we think of organizations doing things to make its pronouncements and responses as palatable to the public as possible. I don’t think the Church really does that. They do understand public relations: they understand that since they are going to get hammered no matter how they put it, they might as well just put it out bluntly and if people don’t like it, tough nuggets. Good policy imho.

 

[Digitonomy]

when many of us think of pr, we think of organizations doing things to make its pronouncements and responses as palatable to the public as possible. I don’t think the Church really does that…they understand that since they are going to get hammered no matter how they put it, they might as well just put it out bluntly and if people don’t like it, tough nuggets. Good policy imho.

The only problem with this theory is that it’s clear the Vatican is trying to make its pronouncements more palatable, such as the pope’s letter accompanying Summorum Pontificum. I’m confident there was also Vatican-level PR explaining the technical rather than polemical nature of the Five Questions document, although what little I read along these lines was from pundits and local officials.

 

[Petergee]

Addressing the title of this thread:
It is not just a religious problem either.

I think one of the side-effects of the Catholic clergy abuse scandal is that no one seems to see anybody else abusing children. If they do, it is being discounted because the accused isn’t a priest. Sort of - Catholic priests abuse children, this accused person isn’t a Catholic priest, ergo, no abuse has occurred.

Here in Western Australia last year, the Education Department was caught out shifting teachers who had abused children around to other schools. This has been happening for years with the Education Department covering up the extent of the abuse. Unfortunately, this has been swept under the carpet again and the Education Department has come out squeaky clean. So clean, in fact, that most of the on-line news stories about it seem to have been cleaned up too.

loop.wa.gov.au/mr_frame.asp?file=08-11-2006%20~%20Collier%20~%20Another%20week%20in%20education%20another%20damning%20report.htm

edwatch.blogspot.com/2006_10_15_archive.html
West Australia education chief quits over sex ‘cover-up’
(15 October 2006)
The head of Western Australia’s Education department has resigned after a damning report that found sexual misconduct is not being properly handled in the state’s schools. In a scathing report, the state’s Corruption and Crime Commission said the Department of Education and Training repeatedly covered up allegations of sexual abuse of children by teachers, and was more concerned with protecting the welfare of staff than students. Department of Education and Training (DET) director general Paul Albert has agreed to leave the job after a meeting overnight with Premier Alan Carpenter.
The CCC revealed that in one case where a teacher was convicted of indecently dealing with a child under 13, the department had responded by transferring him to another school.
In another case, a school principal and deputy principal were found to have covered up a relationship between a teacher and student after the teacher agreed to resign. The CCC said the deputy principal was aware the teacher had been investigated for inappropriate conduct with an under-age girl at another school five years earlier but he was allowed to resign before an investigation was conducted into the latest allegation.

Isn’t this exactly the same as bishops moving abusing priests to different parishes? Having the chief bureaucrat fall on his sword and issuing new guidelines really isn’t enough.

…

No institution, be it religious or secular, should have a free pass on child sex abuse. Schools, churches and government social services would do well to clean their own houses instead climbing onto their high-horses and castigating the Church for pointing out that child sex abuses are occurring and being covered up in their own backyards and on their watch.

It’s even worse than that. Although the State governments moved known pedophile teachers from State school to State school for decades, the New South Wales parliament (and I think some other states) has passed a law prohibiting anyone from seeking any compensation for child sexual abuse from the government or any government employee or ex-employee.

So the situation is, if you were abused as a child by a teacher (or school librarian, cleaner or whoever) - if it happened in a State school - you get nothing (We wouldn’t want to put a burden on the poor taxpayers would we?)

But if the same abuse happened in a Catholic school, you can sue every Catholic instiution which was in any way conected to the abuser. (After all we all know the Catholic Church is just sitting on billions of dollars don’t we?)

True, the relatively few pedophile priests are the lowest scum on earth, and the Catholic priesthood is the very last place we should find pedophiles. But taking Cathoilic priests as a group, it is the very last place we find it. I don’t have a link but I remember reading that statistically speaking, if you had to place a child in the care of a man you didn’t know, and the only the thing you could specify about the man was his occupation, then to minimise the chance of the child being abused you should specify the occupation “Catholic priest”.

 

[Petergee]

I’ve heard comments from Anglican friends, and they felt deeply offended, not by the theological issues (which they understand), but by the brusque and dismissive *language * of the statement. I know what the Pope was trying to say, and I’ll be charitable and blame it on bad translation. *Really *bad translation. By someone apparently fluent only in stilted 18th Century English. That it was meant for the Faithful is irrelevant when its issued so publicly. Most Catholics heard it not from their priest or bishop, but from CNN…

Maybe instead of putting it on their website the Vatican should have posted out 1.2 billion person-to-person letters marked “strictly confidential”?
Any Catholic with half a brain has realised by now that the mainstream media never give a rational and factual report of ANY statement by any Catholic official, and that they need to go to the source to find out what was really said.

who I’m sure enjoyed the hell out the Pope putting his foot in his mouth again (i.e., like in Brazil last month).

The MSM may like to portray him as putting his foot in his mouth, but any fair and open analysis would show that Benedict XVI always ponders very carefully before saying or doing anything, and he would be the last person to put his foot in his mouth. You can be sure that he has a well-thought-out reason for everything he has said and each word he has used to say it.

 

[Petergee]

sexual abuse by the clergy isnt just a catholic problem…since the catholic church is bigger than the other Protestant and orthodox churches ,the sexual abuse is happening on a greater scale…the money so far payed out to the victims 2 billion for the 1950 to the present abuses and 660 million yet to be payed…plus 500 and so cases yet pending…it looks to me that the supreme pontiff isnt doing his job,he should be aware of what is going on…after all he is the supreme pontiff in the shoes of peter…one of the popes john paul the second i believe had a u.s. cardinal brought to the vatican to prevent him being prosecuted for shifting abusive priest,

You believe wrongly. If you’re referring to Cardinal Law, he wasn’t being prosecuted, and even if he was, he could have been extradited from Italy or the Vatican and the Pope would certainly not have prevented this. In fact JP2 removed Cd Law from his post specifically because many people had lost trust in him over his handling of pedophile cases.

,successor of peter at his finest sad sad sad …im glad as a orthodox christian ,we dont have such a thing as a supreme pontiff it doesnt seem to be work.ing…our patriarch ,metropolitans,bishops ,priests can easily be replaced …if they allowed this evil to continue for years and years…lord save thy children …stashko

Really? Who decides when an EO patriarch will be replaced, and how? In fact the problem in the USA seems to have been precisely that the local bishops had too little interference by the Supreme Pontiffs.

Btw is there any significance in the fact that you refuse to use a capital initial for any word except “Protestant”?

 

[stashko]

You believe wrongly. If you’re referring to Cardinal Law, he wasn’t being prosecuted, and even if he was, he could have been extradited from Italy or the Vatican and the Pope would certainly not have prevented this. In fact JP2 removed Cd Law from his post specifically because many people had lost trust in him over his handling of pedophile cases. Really? Who decides when an EO patriarch will be replaced, and how? In fact the problem in the USA seems to have been precisely that the local bishops had too little interference by the Supreme Pontiffs.

Btw is there any significance in the fact that you refuse to use a capital initial for any word except “Protestant”?

I believe since the vatican is considered a state a country they have no authorty to extricate him if the vatican doesnt agree to it…its protecting him …if he should travel abroad then they could arrest him,that if they are seeking to prosecute him,all in all for the successors of the blessed St.Peter to allow this evil to continue.for years and years and turning a blind eye and shiffting from parish to parish diocese to diocese they should all be removed sent to monastery the rest of there natrual life and repent for the lord is very serious that anyone to lead astry or make a inoccent lose its path to salvation…better to drown ones self in this God would show more mercy …ive notice here instead owning up to the wrongs done by the clergy most of the catholic here are saying its happening in other denominations or in schools what of it…very rarely do i read sampathy for the victims its more for the church… oh how could find fault with the church…quoiting Patriarch Pavle of serbia to the serbians that did those attrocity in bosnia,with out recognition of sin there can be no repentance…hopefull this pope will do a total house cleaning…peace stashko