Vatican Shot Across the Bow for Hard-Line U.S. Catholics

[lynnvinc]

VATICAN CITY — Two close associates of Pope Francis have accused American Catholic ultraconservatives of making an alliance of “hate” with evangelical Christians to back President Trump, further alienating a group already out of the Vatican’s good graces.

The authors, writing in a Vatican-vetted journal, singled out Stephen K. Bannon, Mr. Trump’s chief strategist, as a “supporter of an apocalyptic geopolitics” that has stymied action against climate change and exploited fears of migrants and Muslims with calls for “walls and purifying deportations.”…

msn.com/en-us/news/world/a-vatican-shot-across-the-bow-for-hard-line-us-catholics/ar-AApkaR9?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartandhp

 

[JHC]

What exactly is a hard-line U.S. Catholic?

 

[J_Peterson]

What exactly is a hard-line U.S. Catholic?

Think Church Militant and other similarly minded folks. Steve Bannon is a great example(not sure if he’s practicing or not though).

 

[ComplineSanFran]

What exactly is a hard-line U.S. Catholic?

If you read the critique of the article cited above, I believe the NYTimes is defining the ‘hard-line Catholic’ as one who is conservative and makes political decisions the over-arching concerns of the faith, similar to conservative evangelical Christians. The two groups, as the original article cites, are mostly white, are changing the nature of American Catholicism, and not for the good. They are forming ‘an ecumenism of hate.’

Here is the original article that the critique is writing about. It has gotten quite a bit of publicity to say the least. I’m surprised no one here has been following the article as well as the write ups in the Times, Crux, etc.

laciviltacattolica.it/articolo/evangelical-fundamentalism-and-catholic-integralism-in-the-usa-a-surprising-ecumenism/

 

[J_Peterson]

If you read the critique of the article cited above, I believe the NYTimes is defining the ‘hard-line Catholic’ as one who is conservative and makes political decisions the over-arching concerns of the faith, similar to conservative evangelical Christians. The two groups, as the original article cites, are mostly white, are changing the nature of American Catholicism, and not for the good. They are forming ‘an ecumenism of hate.’

Here is the original article that the critique is writing about. It has gotten quite a bit of publicity to say the least. I’m surprised no one here has been following the article as well as the write ups in the Times, Crux, etc.

laciviltacattolica.it/articolo/evangelical-fundamentalism-and-catholic-integralism-in-the-usa-a-surprising-ecumenism/

Catholic Answers came to my mind when I read the article. It won’t be very popular in these parts.

 

[JimG]

What exactly is a hard-line U.S. Catholic?

I thought that a hard line Catholic was one who is not squishy on Church teaching and doctrine.

 

[JimG]

Didn’t we discuss a similar article recently published in L’Osservatore Romano? The authors of this article seem to have little understanding of U.S. Catholics or Evangelicals, focusing as they do on minor figures. They seem to impose a peculiarly European worldview on U.S. Religion and politics.
Here is a recent article from Catholic World Report:

An excerpt:

“Last month, Civilta Cattolicà featured an article co-authored by its editor-in-chief, Father Antonio Spadaro, SJ, and Pastor Marcelo Figueroa, who edits the Argentine edition of L’Osservatore Romano, the Vatican newspaper. The article purported to analyze a startling “ecumenism of hate” in the United States, forged by ultra-conservative Catholics and evangelical Protestants, and creepy-dangerous for its indulgence in a new Manicheanism that distorts the Gospel and divides everything in the world into rigid and narrowly-defined categories of good and evil. This bizarre*screed generated weeks of controversy in the blogosphere, during which Father Spadaro tweeted that the article’s critics were “haters” whose vitriol confirmed the article’s hypothesis – a Trumpian outburst ill-becoming a paladin of “dialogue.”

My friends and colleagues R.R. Reno, Robert Royal, and Fr. Raymond de Souza have ably replied to the comprehensive inanities of the Spadaro/Figueroa article: its ill-informed misrepresentation of American religious history; its surreal descriptions of 21st-century American Catholicism and evangelical Protestantism; its obsessions with marginal figures in contemporary American religious life like R.J. Rushdoony and Michael Voris; its misreading of the dynamics of religiously-informed public moral argument in American politics; and its weird description of the premises of current Vatican diplomacy, which will give comfort to the likes of Vladimir Putin, Raul Castro, and Nicolas Maduro. Those who care to sift through this intellectual dumpster can consult Dr. Reno’s article, Dr. Royal’s, and Fr. De Souza’s.”

Full article here.

 

[tomarin]

What exactly is a hard-line U.S. Catholic?

Someone who has the temerity to make alliances with Evangelicals and support Donald Trump’s policies, according to the article. It’s fairly ludicrous.

 

[PJH_74]

I thought that a hard line Catholic was one who is not squishy on Church teaching and doctrine.

I think it depends on who you are talking to. I believe what we are talking about are Catholics who think along the line of Steve Bannon. Basically that there is a black and white fight coming between “Judeo-Christian” people and Muslims. There’s often references to medieval Crusades and invasions from the east. I’ve heard at least a few people here espouse this sort of thinking. These people aren’t squishy on Catholic teaching, they believe strict Catholic teaching gives them a base for their beliefs, especially medieval Church practices.

As an aside, the whole “Judeo-Christian” thing gives me a bit of a laugh. If this whole thing has been a centuries long struggle of “Judeo-Christians” against Muslims, Christians must have forgotten to tell the persecuted Jews that they were on the same side.

 

[Joe_5859]

Here’s Archbishop Chaput’s response to the La Civiltà Cattolica’s article:

catholicphilly.com/2017/07/think-tank/archbishop-chaput-column/a-word-about-useful-tools/

 

[tseleehw]

This is the same article that came out in the Vatican journal several weeks ago that has been widely panned and critiqued by many prominent American Catholic journalists.

There is a thread about Archbishop Chaput’s response here:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=1058758

Also an interesting article that includes links to other critiques of the original article:

catholicworldreport.com/2017/08/02/spadaro-figueroa-and-questions-of-competence/

 

[Pat_Payne]

Since I’m not allowed to have an opinion…

 

[TK421]

What exactly is a hard-line U.S. Catholic?

A make-believe term.

 

[TK421]

Sorry, but I’m not really interested hearing opinions on what’s “good” or “not good” for the Catholic Church from a member of the Anglican Church, any more than I’m interested in giving opinions to an Anglican about the state of theirs. Or they’d be interested in me bloviating about same.

Inappropriate.

The purpose of people sharing their religion is not so they can be profiled, prejudged, and treated differently from everybody else without a valid reason. This forum is 90% Catholic. It takes a degree of honesty and even courage to choose to identify differently and to participate in the forum.

 

[ComplineSanFran]

Sorry, but I’m not really interested hearing opinions on what’s “good” or “not good” for the Catholic Church from a member of the Anglican Church, any more than I’m sure they’d they’d be interested in me bloviating about what’s “good” or “not good” for the Anglicans.

Perhaps you misread my post. I was summarizing what was in the article that the OP posted.

 

[Pat_Payne]

Perhaps you misread my post. I was summarizing what was in the article that the OP posted.

Maybe I did. I just get hot under the collar sometimes about people not of the faith trying to tell us all the ways we need to change to suit the world, then tellin us to mind our own buisiness and go back into our corner when we preach the Gospel. If that wasn’t your intent, I do apologize.

 

[Ridgerunner]

A remarkable article. They obviously have little understanding of:
-“Hard line” U.S. Catholics.
-Evangelicals.
-U.S. politics.
-Donald Trump.
-Religious liberty as understood in the U.S.

 

[ComplineSanFran]

Maybe I did. I just get hot under the collar sometimes about people not of the faith trying to tell us all the ways we need to change to suit the world, then tellin us to mind our own buisiness and go back into our corner when we preach the Gospel. If that wasn’t your intent, I do apologize.

As I said, I was summarizing the article originally written by The Reverends Antonio Spadaro and Marcelo Figueroa in LA CIVILTÀ CATTOLICA.

 

[ProdigalSun]

As I said, I was summarizing the article originally written by The Reverends Antonio Spadaro and Marcelo Figueroa in LA CIVILTÀ CATTOLICA.

You were giving a summary based on your biased opinion.

Most Hard line Catholics the world over have a fairly strong inkling of what many in the pontifical fold believe and want to see change. Once again it has to be stated that this is the opinion of the writer and not necessarily the Pope. If it is the belief of the Pope then he and the authors are greatly mistaken and misinformed about the truth of the North American Catholic.

We should forgive there ignorance and pray for the Will of God to move the Church and not Politics!

 

[Peebo]

If you read the critique of the article cited above, I believe the NYTimes is defining the ‘hard-line Catholic’ as one who is conservative and makes political decisions the over-arching concerns of the faith, similar to conservative evangelical Christians. The two groups, as the original article cites, are mostly white, are changing the nature of American Catholicism, and not for the good. They are forming ‘an ecumenism of hate.’

Here is the original article that the critique is writing about. It has gotten quite a bit of publicity to say the least. I’m surprised no one here has been following the article as well as the write ups in the Times, Crux, etc.

laciviltacattolica.it/articolo/evangelical-fundamentalism-and-catholic-integralism-in-the-usa-a-surprising-ecumenism/

Well…I agree…you only have to look at some of the posters on CAF…especially those here in the US…they pretty much are in sync with right wing Evangelicals on certain major issues…Immigration… Healthcare…Capitalism V Socialism…Capital Punishment…Climate Change…yet when ever the Pope (or the Bishops of the Catholic church) says anything counter to their beliefs on these issues then they just brush it off as the Pope isn’t speaking “ex cathedra” so they can just disagree with or ignore him…same goes towards the Bishops of the church…Evangelical politics has become the new religion here in the US for some Catholics…the left is no better on the other extreme…( I thought I’d add that in case I get accused of being a left wing liberal…instead of the RINO which I am )