Vatican squelches rumors of new rules on Mass facing east

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The parish I grew up in, had a cathedral style church, with the altar in the center of the congregation. The people sat on all sides, so for over 150 years, the priest either faced the people. had his back to the people or his left or right profile.

The large crucifix hung above the altar.

Jim
 
If I had to guess, no one will be facing “east” unless they’re performing the EF.
There is a parish near me that only has one EF Mass out of the 5 Sunday Masses, but all the Masses are said ad orientem. 🤷 They never took out the old altar or added a new one.
 
One of my priests celebrates weekday masses ad orientum.

As I understood it from the beginning, this was a recommendation, not a rule. I don’t know why so many people got so worked up.
Because a certain segment of the Catholic population has been clamoring for this. And many of them ran with it. I mean the longer it went on the more I was seeing articles that were saying this WAS happening and that it was a mandate not a suggestion.
 
This is good to know. I had wondered how any of the churches in our cluster would manage - 2 face north and 1 faces west. 😉
 
There is a parish near me that only has one EF Mass out of the 5 Sunday Masses, but all the Masses are said ad orientem. 🤷 They never took out the old altar or added a new one.
The Mission at Santa Clara University is like that. The old “east” facing high altar was left in place. They never really put in a permanent replacement altar for versus populum masses and as a result masses today are actually held in what would have been the middle of the nave. And they hold them ad orientum, versus populum or facing liturgical north depending on what the priest that day fancies. Never seen them face liturgical south however.
 
Symbolic east? OK, still not any closer to understanding.

Please, someone explain to me as if I am completely ignorant, because apparently I am. 😊
Most churches historically were built in a basic cruciform or similar design. One end was where everyone came in (in theory), and the other end (liturgical east) was where the high altar with the tabernacle was located. Typically churches were built with liturgical east also facing or close to facing east on the compass. Over time as churches became more modernized and the designs changed it became less common for churches to be designed that way. But the terminology remains.
 
Most churches historically were built in a basic cruciform or similar design. One end was where everyone came in (in theory), and the other end (liturgical east) was where the high altar with the tabernacle was located. Typically churches were built with liturgical east also facing or close to facing east on the compass. Over time as churches became more modernized and the designs changed it became less common for churches to be designed that way. But the terminology remains.
God bless you for clearing that up for me! I knew that churches had been built in the shape of a cross. My childhood parish was built that way. But I had no idea that the “top” of the cross shape was called liturgical east. Brilliant.

Thanks again!
 
He recalled that the General Instruction on the Roman Mission, which “remains fully in force,” indicated that the altar should be built away from the wall so “that Mass can be celebrated at it facing the people, which is desirable wherever possible.”
Wasn’t there a subsequent study into the Latin which showed the “desirable wherever possible” refers to “the altar should be built from the wall”?

Ah, never mind…
 
I saw this comment on an article on this subject and found it particularly helpful in better understanding Cardinal Sarah’s context:
The translation of that item is a big issue. The way the English translation reads puts this item ii conflict with the rest of the GIRM. That’s why I was very disappointed to see Fr. Spadaro’s comment. He took the phrase “facing the people” as a directive for versus populum. But the reality is that the only reason that it is there is that all of the GIRM assumes that the priest is facing the same direction as the people and therefore must be told to turn to face the people for certain prayers. What he takes as an endorsement for versus populum as the norm is actually evidence that versus apsidem is the norm and versus populum simply a valid option.
The reality is that we had a common direction of worship for nearly 1900 years. I can see why people like versus populum, but I think we would do well to have a much better understanding of the theological underpinnings of common orientation.
I am Roman Rite and I live in an area with a dominant liberalized Catholic community. Most of the parish churches are of a modernist design and it seems that a laissez faire attitude towards any semblance of traditional orthodoxy is the norm. I have been going to a Byzantine Catholic parish because they adhere to the orthodoxy I am interested in, to include facing east during liturgy.
 
Symbolic east? OK, still not any closer to understanding.

Please, someone explain to me as if I am completely ignorant, because apparently I am. 😊
Symbolic East means the priests faces with his back to the people in a symbolic gesture of facing East toward Jerusalem.

Obviously, having a literal east facing construction of church buildings was not possible.

Jim
 
Symbolic east? OK, still not any closer to understanding.

Please, someone explain to me as if I am completely ignorant, because apparently I am. 😊
A more helpful word is Liturgical East. Liturgical East is the direction that the Priest and the people face together in the Extraordinary Form of the Roman Rite. Liturgical North and South are the two sides of the altar, and Liturgical West is the area where the faithful sit/stand/kneel during Mass.

Traditionally, Mass begins with the Missal placed on the (liturgical) South side of the altar to signify the truth dwelling in Jerusalem, then at the reading of the Gospel the Missal is moved to the (liturgical) North side of the altar to signify the passing of the truth to the gentiles in the North after Christ’s Ascension. The Missal remains in the North until the end of the liturgy when it is returned to the South to signify the Catholic teaching that Jerusalem will finally receive the Gospel in the last days. The directions are symbolic, designed to teach us the truths of the faith by engaging our external senses.
 
A more helpful word is Liturgical East. Liturgical East is the direction that the Priest and the people face together in the Extraordinary Form of the Roman Rite. Liturgical North and South are the two sides of the altar, and Liturgical West is the area where the faithful sit/stand/kneel during Mass.

Traditionally, Mass begins with the Missal placed on the (liturgical) South side of the altar to signify the truth dwelling in Jerusalem, then at the reading of the Gospel the Missal is moved to the (liturgical) North side of the altar to signify the passing of the truth to the gentiles in the North after Christ’s Ascension. The Missal remains in the North until the end of the liturgy when it is returned to the South to signify the Catholic teaching that Jerusalem will finally receive the Gospel in the last days. The directions are symbolic, designed to teach us the truths of the faith by engaging our external senses.
Very good.

I heard liturgical north preached to the barbarians in that direction but your explanation works okay too.
 
Symbolic East means the priests faces with his back to the people in a symbolic gesture of facing East toward Jerusalem.
Note: it’s not actually about facing Jerusalem, because parishes east of Jerusalem still faced East.

It’s east facing the rising sun. The rising sun being a metaphor for the Son of God rising. At least that’s what I read when I read part of Cardnial Sarah’s recommendation

Also the tabernacle or at least the concercrated hosts if no tabernacle, were placed on the Altar.

I personally like Liturgical East because I feel there is a lot of confusion with bowing during Mass as people (clergy included) pass the altar.

At my parish alone, some clergy bow towards the tabernacle and others bow towards the altar (with their back to the tabernacle).

Personally, if I was a clergy member, I would always walk in front of the altar (when possible)
 
Thank you all so much for taking the time to explain the meaning of liturgical east.

Our faith is not only the fullness of Truth, it is also unspeakably beautiful in its symbology.

God bless all y’all.
 
That should be obvious. Whatever the priest saying the OF Mass could do before, he cannot do now.
This is not true. Whatever the priest could do before this brouhaha he can still do. What was wrong was to interpret the prefect’s words as if they were carrying the force of law instead of his personal thoughts and insights…which he has long held.

They could not have the force of law – that is impossible since dicasterial directives operate on derivative authority of the Pope himself – and that this was not, is not, and will not be the will of the Pope…is quite manifest and for very good and sound reasons.

This meant that it was utterly impossible that this situation could be in the same sense “new law” in the way that – thanks be to God – the feet of women (and even exclusvely women) can be washed in the Holy Thursday rite. That was promulgated by Cardinal Sarah at the direct command of the Pope and was his expressed and explicit will and resolution: that women from here forward will have their feet washed in this liturgical rite.

In Europe we have said Mass using altars from before Vatican II – both long before and long after the council – just as we have built new altars to comply with the liturgical reform. There were no absolutes in that regard – the norms described implementing what was possible.

In many places in the intervening years, I offered Mass on altars where I was not facing the people because an altar versus populum was deemed impossible to be accommodated or added to because of space constraint and artistic merit of what was there. So we kept using what was present and at hand. People understood what was clearly evident…that the modifications that could be made were made and those that could not be made were adapted as far as possible.

On the other hand, where modification could be done and accomplished in a reasonable way, it was done with the celebration versus populum. I could not begin to tell you how many times I have celebrated Mass ad absidem. Too many to begin counting.

There was an option for Mass ad absidem. As the Cardinal said, it can be done – with much prudence, much caution, much catechesis. But it cannot be mandated. It should not be imposed upon people no longer familiar with it. Where we do it, it has been done that way since the Council itself. It is not the law. Offering mass ad absidem should be done only in consultation with the bishop of the diocese and with the presybyterate and very careful and thoughtful reflection. It can be done and I have done it to good effect…but it something to be gravelly considered. For us in Europe, too, it does not have the emotional connotations it seems to have for Americans. It is not an ideological statement; it is a practical response to a church or chapel configuration. .

On the other hand, it is crucial to indicate what it is not. The Mass celebrated in this way should not be some affectation to simulate aspects of the vetus ordo, as though it – or externals that mimic it – are in any way superior. They’re not. All forms of Eucharist and its synaxis are equal…utterly.

People offering comments on this website demonstrte far too much excitability…as if the direction the presider faced had some profound implication when it is a matter of relatively minimal significance, liturgically.

The presider should preside from the celebrant’s chair throughout the introductory rites. Lay readers and then the deacon fulfills their rightful ministry as the priest occupies the presider’s chair. It is only from the Offertory to the Priest’s Communion that the altar ad absidem should be employed and, even then, addressing himself to the litugical assembly throughout so that they are engaged in dialogue with the presider as well as engaged in full, conscious, and active participation that is above all others, as the Council Fathers mandated… with words… gestures… postures… acclamations…"
 
Symbolic East means the priests faces with his back to the people in a symbolic gesture of facing East toward Jerusalem
These are, frankly, words and ideas that are being advanced today (and recent past) regarding liturgy that really weren’t objects of discussion among laity when I was young – or among us when I was a seminarian and before I was ordained

My church had three altars. Before Vatican II, they faced south. The entrances faced north. After the council, three altars continued facing south and a versus populum altar was added which faced north. In the other parish I went to very frequently (it was our neighbour and slightly farther from my home) the altar faced west before the council…Mass was said facing east, ironically, only after the liturgical reform

In the cathedral, on the other hand, the altar originally faced north. After the council, it faced south. The buildings were built the way they were because of the limitations of the building’s layout relative to the property at the time they were constructed. As a priest, I became aware of just how few churches actually faced east in the diocese

After the council, I was chosen to do studies in liturgy in order to implement the sort of formation that Sacrosanctum Concilium mandated for the education of the clergy as well as the laity. I worked with clerics who were of the generation who built those buildings or no more than two generations removed from them – except our historic edifices that went way back

Given their backgrounds, they were not unaware of traditions…but neither were they going to see it as some diriment impediment if the building had to have a different orientation. Which is why we ended up with structures that are not ad orientem. Neither, I hasten to add, are a number of the holy places in Rome and elsewhere. This was not “a value above all” for us…as when Muslims must face Mecca to pray. It is an important symbol and a useful image of the Parousia. But it is not an absolute

Saying we “lost” something rings hollow for those who remember the council fathers at Vatican II citing that we had lost so much with the liturgy then in force in the West

Personally, the only time I use the expression ad orientem is if, in fact, I am offering Mass ad orientem. Normally, I say ad absidem, if not facing people

If you say that you are offering ad orientem, it really means (as words) that you are offering to the East. The East is rationally discernible by using science. If I am facing the East, I am facing East and I say that I am facing East

On the other hand, I would never allow my liturgy and sacrament students, as this term came into vogue in a certain era, no matter who had employed the expression, to employ the phrase “ad orientem” if the compass is indicating the direction is actually north, south or west. They had to use a different term

I appreciate that there are those who wish to evoke a symbolic East or a “liturgical” East (which is the most enigmatic to me of all, as a liturgist and theologian; I do not speak of liturgical ocean or a liturgical heavens, although I have seen them artistically depicted in church buildings

First, of all, I refuse to use it from the perspective of the integrity of Veritatis Splendor. It is fundamentally dishonest to speak of east that is only east in the imagination. I was very much a part of the world of moral theology of Veritatis Splendor and the issues over consequentialism and proportionalism. I am a great proponent of the philosophical position that truth is not relative but is absolute

Granted, if you are in the International Space Station, one has to have fixed points of reference…however, for us mortals who do not orbit the earth 18 times per day hurtling hundreds of miles above its surface, I can discern if the direction I am facing is, in fact, East or North or West or South

A symbolic east that is, in fact, north simply does not serve. For good purposes that we are going to pretend that this is east has infelicitous consequences. If truth is absolute, it should not matter who of us is looking at the compass to discern that we are all facing one direction. To say that “your” east is not “my” east and that it is fine that something so fundamental as a compass direction yields different statements and that we cannot agree because you can have your east and I can have mine is a statement that I simply cannot accede to. It undermines the Church witness that truth is absolute

If the value truly is facing east, the achievement of that can be had with several rather atypical outcomes. That is one question

What becomes clear, usually, is that the value actually being sought is less the actual direction being faced – although that is the premise presented initially – but rather that all clergy and all assisting at the Mass are physically facing the same same direction. And that the clergy are at the lead position of this synaxis. (The priest and deacon could be facing the nave as the anaphora is prayed and either the people turn also and face east, ahead of the priest and deacon, or the laity could turn to face the central aisle so they are half facing the altar and half facing the East. That would, of course, require them though to stand given contemporary furnishing. This seems less felicitous as a solution)

Finally, I am not a great fan of theories derived from anagogical interpretations. Placements of missals so that at one moment they are on the “left hand” of Jesus and then move to his “right hand,” which is more favoured and then subsequently that the “right hand” favoured position is reinterpreted to afford a sort of fanciful proclamation to the Septentrion has to undergo reconsideration when one is working, for example, in Australia or Chile…a remote reality for these exotic locations of Europe
 
Don Ruggero;
Code:
                  I agree with everything you have said Father. My explanation of Liturgical East being symbolic, was from those who have demanded Mass be celebrated Ad Orientum.
I was raised in the Pre-Vatican II Church, I never want to go back to the days of sitting in pews reading the missal while the celebrant and alter boys(girls weren’t allowed) mumbled the prayers of the Mass.

Anyway, I’m glad the Vatican has squelched the rumor which I believe was all it ever was.

As you can see, American Catholics often link their political ideology with their religion and want their religion to match their political identity i.e. conservative or liberal and of course this forum is the former.

Thanks for all your (name removed by moderator)uts which are informative.

Jim
 
Don Ruggero;

I was raised in the Pre-Vatican II Church, I never want to go back to the days of sitting in pews reading the missal while the celebrant and alter boys(girls weren’t allowed) mumbled the prayers of the Mass.
It would not have been reverting back to pre vatican II form. I imagine the thought was to have the priest revert back to facing east during the consecration and sprinkling in more latin responses,etc. Not everything would be in latin and there would still be active participation.
Anyway, I’m glad the Vatican has squelched the rumor which I believe was all it ever was.
Not sure how you can call the recommendation of the Prefect of the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments a rumor.
As you can see, American Catholics often link their political ideology with their religion and want their religion to match their political identity i.e. conservative or liberal and of course this forum is the former.
Thanks for all your (name removed by moderator)uts which are informative.
i fail to see how wanting to reform the reform has anything to do with politics. please.
 
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