Vatican squelches rumors of new rules on Mass facing east

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JimR-OCDS said:
But again, God is not away from the people, but omnipresent and dwelling within each and everyone.

The priest doesn’t have to pray to God out in the cosmos somewhere.

God is present among us.

Jim
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As then Cardinal Ratzinger, noted in Spirit of the Liturgy
Now we can indeed pray everywhere, and God is accessible to us everywhere. This idea of the universality of God is a consequence of Christian universality, of the Christian’s looking up to God above all gods, the God who embraces the cosmos and is more intimate to us than we are to ourselves. But our knowledge of this universality is the fruit of revelation: God has shown himself to us. Only for this reason do we know him, only for this reason can we confidently pray to him everywhere. And precisely for this reason is it appropriate, now as in the past, that we should express in Christian prayer our turning to the God who has revealed himself to us. Just as God assumed a body and entered the time and space of this world, so it is appropriate to prayer – at least to communal liturgical prayer – that our speaking to God should be “incarnational,” that it should be Christological, turned through the incarnate Word to the Triune God. The cosmic symbol of the rising sun expresses the universality of God above all particular places and yet maintains the concreteness of divine revelation. Our praying is thus inserted into the procession of the nations to God.
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JimR-OCDS said:
You mixing apples and oranges here. At no time did I even suggest that the Mass is not centered on Christ.
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Not to belabor the point but the configuration in many churches DOES put the priest with his back to the crucifix while facing the congregation. I guess someone forgot about that part.
 
ProVobis said:
Not to belabor the point but the configuration in many churches DOES put the priest with his back to the crucifix while facing the congregation. I guess someone forgot about that part.
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Correct and in such cases, Ad Orientum is the proper position for the Celebrant, as specified by the Vatican.

Jim
 
PatrickKennedy said:
I’m pleased it was a retrograde step. I certainly don’t want the priest’s back to me
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Does it bother you when the person in the pew in front of you turns his or her back to you? I don’t understand why people are so offended by the traditional practice of priest and people facing the same direction as the priest offers the holy sacrifice on our behalf. This is still the norm among our Eastern brethren and they don’t complain. To be sure the priest faces us when he is speaking to us (proclaiming the Gospel or preaching), but when he is offering the eucharistic sacrifice, why is it so important that we be able to look at his face? For me, the priest disappears into the ritual. He is Christ. I don’t care what his face looks like during that particular moment. Priest and people face one direction showing our unitied purpose.
 
JimR-OCDS said:
If their Bishop allows it.

Jim
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Can you provide a source? The Novus Ordo Missal has always allowed either orientation. Why would special permission be required? Does a priest need special permission to chant or use incense? There are many options in the Novus Ordo missal - the orientation of the priest during the Eucharistic sacrifice is one of them. I’ve certainly been to ad Orientem OF masses… I’m not aware of any special permission from the bishop coming into play.
 
twf said:
Can you provide a source? The Novus Ordo Missal has always allowed either orientation. Why would special permission be required? Does a priest need special permission to chant or use incense? There are many options in the Novus Ordo missal - the orientation of the priest during the Eucharistic sacrifice is one of them. I’ve certainly been to ad Orientem OF masses… I’m not aware of any special permission from the bishop coming into play.
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The GIRM is as the “general,” instruction, but its the conference of Bishops along with the local Bishop who set the norms for the parishes in their dioceses.

Jim
 
JimR-OCDS said:
The GIRM is as the “general,” instruction, but its the conference of Bishops along with the local Bishop who set the norms for the parishes in their dioceses.
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Now it seems the Pope has solidified the norms. What bishop would start changing the norms now, without raising a turmoil? Never mind if the priest turns his back on the crucifix if he has to. :rolleyes:
 
ProVobis said:
Now it seems the Pope has solidified the norms. What bishop would start changing the norms now, without raising a turmoil? Never mind if the priest turns his back on the crucifix if he has to. :rolleyes:
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Well yes, changing to Ad Orientum as the norm is not going to happen.

But, the priest isn’t turning his back on Christ with the Crucifix behind him. The statue is just an image reminding us of Christ’s sacrifice, but it is not Christ.

Christ is among us spiritually and physically in the Eucharist.

Jim
 
twf said:
Does it bother you when the person in the pew in front of you turns his or her back to you? I don’t understand why people are so offended by the traditional practice of priest and people facing the same direction as the priest offers the holy sacrifice on our behalf. This is still the norm among our Eastern brethren and they don’t complain. To be sure the priest faces us when he is speaking to us (proclaiming the Gospel or preaching), but when he is offering the eucharistic sacrifice, why is it so important that we be able to look at his face? For me, the priest disappears into the ritual. He is Christ. I don’t care what his face looks like during that particular moment. Priest and people face one direction showing our unitied purpose.
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I wouldn’t say I’m offended by it. But I prefer it if I can see the actions of the priest, my own participation in the mass feels more whole for me.
 
PatrickKennedy said:
I’m pleased it was a retrograde step. I certainly don’t want the priest’s back to me
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I think that we can all agree that God deserved our attention and worship at mass.

Think about what you are implying here. The mass has nothing to do with how one individual feels, it is about worshipping God.

The argument you make has always come off as that the person making this statement deserves something during mass and is more important than worshipping God.

If by facing the Lit. East the priest is turning his back on you, what does it mean when the priest if facing you? Doesn’t it seem silly to say the priest is turning his back to God?
 
twf said:
Does it bother you when the person in the pew in front of you turns his or her back to you? I don’t understand why people are so offended by the traditional practice of priest and people facing the same direction as the priest offers the holy sacrifice on our behalf. This is still the norm among our Eastern brethren and they don’t complain. To be sure the priest faces us when he is speaking to us (proclaiming the Gospel or preaching), but when he is offering the eucharistic sacrifice, why is it so important that we be able to look at his face? For me, the priest disappears into the ritual. He is Christ. I don’t care what his face looks like during that particular moment. Priest and people face one direction showing our unitied purpose.
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good post. this all seems so selfish to me (not your post but those that are offended at ad orietum)

This isn’t about an individual…it is about the church turning towards God and offering Jesus.

In reality, I highly doubt it affects God which way we are facing. But traditionally, it makes sense and seems to bring about more reference.

I can see people’s stance more if they decided to go completely back to the extraordinary mass and how one could feel disengaged.
 
JimR-OCDS said:
If their Bishop allows it.

Jim
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Rome already has

In regards to Bishop Foley’s attempt to prohibit the priests of EWTN from celebrating Mass ad orientum. This was the letter faxed to Bishop Foley and to EWTN
this Dicastry has concluded that individual Diocesan Bishops may not prohibit celebration of the Sacred Liturgy facing the apse “ad orientum” and therefore, it must respectfully ask that Your Excellency withdraw this Decree because it is contrary to the ius *commune *with regard to liturgical matters. "
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adoremus.org/NewLiturgy9102K.html
 
CatholicSooner said:
I think that we can all agree that God deserved our attention and worship at mass.

Think about what you are implying here. The mass has nothing to do with how one individual feels, it is about worshipping God.

The argument you make has always come off as that the person making this statement deserves something during mass and is more important than worshipping God.

If by facing the Lit. East the priest is turning his back on you, what does it mean when the priest if facing you? Doesn’t it seem silly to say the priest is turning his back to God?
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Just saying I don’t like the idea of a return to the priest facing away from the people.
 
PatrickKennedy said:
Just saying I don’t like the idea of a return to the priest facing away from the people.
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It’s for literally like 10 minutes during an hour long service.

He isn’t turning his back on the people. He is turning towards God
 
TMC said:
Based on the recent statements by the Vatican, it appears you are in good company.
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Well you can still practice either form so…

all the vatican said was there will not be a dictate…atleast not at this time
 
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