Vatican Survey on Summorum Pontificum Sent to the Bishops of the World

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Vatican survey asks bishops to comment on Summorum Pontificum | News Headlines

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Apologies if a topic on this has already been made; I couldn’t find any.

Needless to say, I’m interested to see the results of the survey.
 
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The Vatican decides to poll bishops about the Traditional Latin Mass whilst still sitting on the McCarrick Report???
 
I’m curious about what this is meant to achieve. Some new optional prefaces were recently published, which shows the TLM is a living part of the Church.

But given what SP currently does, the traditional rite cannot be liberated much more than it already is. I hope this doesn’t mean the old unjust restrictions are being considered again. Along those lines, an important reason for SPs existence was for priests to be free from the anti-TLM bias of the contemporary crop of bishops, who were often too restrictive in the indult days. Their makeup hasn’t changed a lot.

I pray Pope Francis takes the following verse to heart:
Col. 3:21 Fathers, do not provoke your children, lest they become discouraged.
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IanM said:
The Vatican decides to poll bishops about the Traditional Latin Mass whilst still sitting on the McCarrick Report???
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It’s always interesting what takes priority. With everything going on in the Church and world, and all real problems the CDF should be dealing with, why this, why now? Even if it was being carried out in a pro-SP spirit, it seems like a low priority.
 
And coming out shortly after yet another ‘let’s explore the possibility of a female diaconate. Again.
 
Maybe instead of female deacons there will be female subdeacons 😆.
 
Here’s the first paragraph run through Chrome Translate:

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Please remember that the person is one Italian ‘theologian’ (not even a priest!) giving his unsolicited view.

It is entirely possible that Pope Francis is going to give people like that enough rope to . . . Well you get the picture. So who cares about a disgruntled stuck in the 60s ‘theologican’ throwing a hissy?

I trust in Jesus.
 
stpurl said:
Please remember that the person is one Italian ‘theologian’ (not even a priest!) giving his unsolicited view.

It is entirely possible that Pope Francis is going to give people like that enough rope to . . . Well you get the picture. So who cares about a disgruntled stuck in the 60s ‘theologican’ throwing a hissy?

I trust in Jesus.
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Well, that’s kind of true. But he isn’t just a theologian. He’s a theologian close to the pope. Hopefully it all amounts to nothing.
 
I know who that theologian is. Never met him personally but he teaches at the Pontifical Athenaeum of Sant’ Anselmo abbey, also the HQ of the Benedictines worldwide and the seat of the Abbot Primate. I’ve walked past is office many times when I’ve been at S. Anselmo (annually since 2013, this year will be pandemic exception), and I have an oblate friend for whom Prof. Grillo was his doctoral advisor.

He is no flake. And his opinion is being taken seriously. He’s actually launched a petition on the topic. So far 388 signatures. The initial objective was 100. Now it’s 500. You can read the full text in English here:

www.cittadellaeditrice.com

Open letter on the "state of liturgical exception" (english version)

Open letter on the “state of liturgical exception” To all theologians, scholars, and students of theology The great liturgical tradition, which has always accompanied and supported the Church in her history of grace and sin, hears the groaning of individuals and nations in this pandemi
www.cittadellaeditrice.com www.cittadellaeditrice.com
 
Even nice and intelligent people can still ‘get it wrong’. I believe this theologian has done so. I don’t believe he has done so maliciously. But I still believe he is wrong.

The Church has been through some very difficult times where things have been done ‘for the good’ which turned out badly. And even good people and orders have ‘gone to the bad’ for a time (the Jesuits for example WERE suppressed for a few years back in the day for their errors; Jansenists were given the slap down but only after they had had their ‘time to strut’ and their influence is still wafting around in places). And let’s not forget how many decades we have heard how the Church was going to embrace this, that, or the other; it was spoken of confidently as happening ‘imminently’. . .and yet the things never came to pass.

I’m still not worried. Pope Benedict was quite clear that the EF had never been and never COULD be ‘suppressed’. I personally saw (and so did you) decades where 99.999% of Catholics never saw an EF and were TOLD it was verboten (and this was prior to good old You Tube etc where we once were blind but now we see), and yet Summorum Pontificum. Even if we had a Pope who decided to say, “no more EF”, I do not believe that the EF would cease for all time. What might happen, whether the Second Coming or a Pope who ‘saw differently’ or something else entirely, I don’t know. . .but I do know that The Mass of the Ages is part of the deposit of Faith, not the equivalent of an old rug or a decrepit building that needs to be replaced with linoleum or a new ‘state of the art’ multipurpose building. (And lest you think I’m making a comparison and finding the OF ‘cheap’, linoleum is actually a sought-after material at least in my neck of the woods!)
 
stpurl said:
Jansenists were given the slap down but only after they had had their ‘time to strut’ and their influence is still wafting around in places.
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I’m just reporting what I know from the theologian in question. I have my own opinion on SP which I will keep to myself, but in all fairness. I think it is too soon to judge whether the impact has been positive or negative. It certainly didn’t result in a rapprochement with the SSPX, if that was the intent.

I just wanted to comment on your bringing up of the Jansenist issue. Some times good intentions that turn bad (and in this was was a heresy as well) can do very lasting damage. Jansenism nearly ruined the Church in Québec where I live (and it did no good in Ireland either). We underwent the “quiet revolution” in the early 60s at the same time as Vatican II was getting underway. Quebecers at that time decided to throw off the yoke of an oppressive Church (and yes it was oppressive).

The backlash was so tremendous, the Church here may never rise from its ashes Society has completely kicked the Church out of the public sphere (health care, education), crucifixes were subjected to about the same treatment as statues of Lenin at the fall of the USSR, and church attendance fell to all-time lows. Vocations are next to nil. Our abbey struggles to get a few interns a year. It’s been years since one stuck around long enough to enter the noviciate. Last I heard there were something like 16 priests in formation in Québec seminaries. Sixteen! For a population of 8.5 million!

From some of the horror stories I have heard from first hand experience, the Québec Church got what it richly deserved. Fortunately it opened up the Church to real change and now the people in Church are there because they want to be. There is no appetite in Québec for rolling back any of the reforms of Vatican II, if anything most Québec Catholics feel it didn’t to far enough. I am among those who wouldn’t roll back a single VII reform, nor would I roll back the liturgy although I am all for incorporating tradition (people around here know I’m a huge fan of Gregorian chant) into the modern liturgy.
 
gracepoole said:
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stpurl:
Please remember that the person is one Italian ‘theologian’ (not even a priest!) giving his unsolicited view.

It is entirely possible that Pope Francis is going to give people like that enough rope to . . . Well you get the picture. So who cares about a disgruntled stuck in the 60s ‘theologican’ throwing a hissy?

I trust in Jesus.
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Well, that’s kind of true. But he isn’t just a theologian. He’s a theologian close to the pope. Hopefully it all amounts to nothing.
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What does that mean “close to the Pope”? How many theologians are “close to the Pope”?

I don’t buy it for a second.
 
Feanor2 said:
What does that mean “close to the Pope”? How many theologians are “close to the Pope”?
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He is a professor of Sacramental Theology at the Pontifical Athenaeum of Sant’ Anselmo in Rome. That’s as much as I know. I’d say though, that this is “closer” to the pope than most of us here, if not personally, at least geographically 😉
 
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OraLabora said:
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Feanor2:
What does that mean “close to the Pope”? How many theologians are “close to the Pope”?
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He is a professor of Sacramental Theology at the Pontifical Athenaeum of Sant’ Anselmo in Rome. That’s as much as I know. I’d say though, that this is “closer” to the pope than most of us here, if not personally, at least geographically 😉
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LOL. Definitely closer than the hundreds of armchair theologians on CAF.
 
stpurl said:
and never COULD be ‘suppressed’.
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Where did he say this? Was he speaking absolutely (as in, not even the Roman Pontiff), or what was the qualification did he attach to it?

Pius XII in Sacramentum Ordinis (1947) taught that: “[E]very one knows that the Church has the power to change and abrogate what she herself hasn’t established.” (n. 3)
 
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