Vatican Survey on Summorum Pontificum Sent to the Bishops of the World

[TMC]

While there may be some individuals who act this way, they are not the norm. I believe that accepting a stereotype as fact makes it a fact for those who want to denigrate us. This “trads are rude” mentality is right there with, “the Church is hostile to those with SSA.” I have never seen anyone mistreated in a church - for any reason , yet the bishops on the USCCB apologize for our behavior.

I think the on-line community is largely responsible for this perception. Most Catholics don’t know much (if anything) about the EF or the traditionalist movement. If they are interested and just go to Google and go to some “traditionalist” websites, they encounter some pretty negative material and hostile attitudes. If they went to meet real life people, their experience would certainly be different. But, as often happens on-line, a very vocal minority is creating a negative impression of an entire community.

 

[stpurl]

Actually, while it may be true that some people who voice their ‘traditionalism’ while NOT accepting the current Pope (Sedes) and who are thus not in line with the vast majority of people who like traditions of the Church (and who accept the Pope) can be found on websites, I can tell you that the majority of people whose only experience of “trads” is gleaned from THESE FORUMS, because they trust that they will either meet tradition-minded people here, or that they’ll hear ‘the facts’ here, are getting a mighty skewed view of ‘traditional Catholics’ from a few very vocal ‘critics’ of same, usually full of anecdotes and ‘gospel true’ stories as backed up by priests etc of how hateful trads are.

I’m sorry to say it, but there is a marked antipathy to the TLM/EF, ‘Latin”, ‘traditions’, etc. among some otherwise intelligent and personable people, based on a variety of factors, that is far greater than one could imagine, and unparalleled in antipathy as compared to, for example, people who express atheistic views, people who address ‘indifferentism”, or who argue for things like women priests, or even for abortion rights.

In fact, the only thing that seems to stir up equal anger and disgust is people who express support of the current US president!

And it’s surprising because a LOT of traditional Catholics do NOT like or support the current US president. So if we talk ‘politics’, our views are welcome, but the minute we start to talk about liking the EF, WHAM down comes the iron curtain and the ‘unpersoning’!

 

[twf]

experience, the Québec Church got what it richly deserved. Fortunately it opened up the Church to real change and now the people in Church are there because they want to be. There is no appetite in Québec for rolling back any of the reforms of Vatican II, if anything most Québec Catholics feel it didn’t to far enough. I am among those who wouldn’t roll back a single VII reform, nor would I roll back the liturgy alt

I wonder if immigration could bring new life into the Church in Quebec?
BC isn’t a traditionally Catholic region. Catholics have always been and remain a minority. Yet, our archdiocese has many full thriving parishes thanks, in large part, to immigrants…Filipinos in particular deserve a call out. I can think of one Vancouver parish in particular, which has 7 packed Sunday Masses, that would probably be pretty close to empty if not for the Filipino community.

 

[Emeraldlady]

Emeraldlady:

expressing a worrisome trend among traditionalists.

While there may be some individuals who act this way, they are not the norm. I believe that accepting a stereotype as fact makes it a fact for those who want to denigrate us. This “trads are rude” mentality is right there with, “the Church is hostile to those with SSA.” I have never seen anyone mistreated in a church - for any reason , yet the bishops on the USCCB apologize for our behavior.

My first real awareness of the traditionalist movement was not gleaned by the internet but in the general reaction of people after the death of Pope St John Paul II. There was a big resistance to his beautification which most people expected would come from liberal types because of the Popes orthodoxy, actuallly came from the traditionalists who called him an ineffective populist. That’s when I personally became aware of the varying degrees of anti VII sentiment fundamental in the traditional movement. Pope Francis has mentioned problems within the traditional movement ever since he was elected, so it’s not like all the impression is only coming from a small group of internet traditionalists. I’d go so far as to say that in 15 years or so, I’ve never found a traditionalist minded person who really embraces the fullness of the Holy Spirit in the work of Vatican II.

Edit: that reply was mostly addressed to StPurl.

 

[OraLabora]

For us in Québec our two main sources have been Haitians and people from the Magreb. The former have many good Catholics (and evangelicals too), the latter… not so much. But they’re francophone. I’ve worked with a few of them, especially in the last few years before I retired. I generally found that while not Catholic, they respected my Catholic faith a lot more than the nominally Catholic, no longer practicing, “pure laine” Quebecers! I of course returned the favour and respected theirs. One colleague when I worked at Telus knew I recited the LOTH, and she told me of an obscure company policy that allowed anyone to reserve any free conference room for religious devotions.

 

[MagdalenaRita]

But they aren’t vague attacks. Even (a) Priest within the traditionalist movement are concerned about these problems.

No disrespect to a priest intended, but he is using strawman arguments -

Plus, it is always the one argument that “Father Rippinger said in this interview sound bite’

This one video gets posted frequently by Emeraldlady but it is important to notice that there are 9 other videos in his series, so every time this gets posted it is always posted out of context of the other videos in this series and the many other talks he has made encouraging what he calls the traditionalist movement. Posting this video alone gives the impression he is speaking out against tradition and traditional Catholics and he is not. He is a very traditional priest and is very encouraging to traditional Catholics and that is what this video is about, to encourage traditional Catholicism, to help “recoup traditions” that have been lost.

Here is a link to so many more of his sermons.

http://sensustraditionis.org/multimedia/sermons/

Sorry, but I grow tired of vague attacks.

I grow weary of these vague attacks also or the insinuation that Catholics who follow the Church’s 2000 year history of tradition are sinners and the more liberal, progressives are not. Jesus did die for all of our sins, not just tradtiional Catholics.

While there may be some individuals who act this way, they are not the norm. I believe that accepting a stereotype as fact makes it a fact for those who want to denigrate us

This, exactly. Stereotyping people is out of step with the Gospel.

 

[MagdalenaRita]

Personally I think that traditionalists have turned on him for not condemning Pope Francis. I think that is a big no no in traditionalist circles.

In all charity, traditionalists are not condemning Pope Francis. Condemnation can only come from God alone. There are things that traditional Catholics disagree with that Pope Francis might say or has said but they are NOT condemning him but rather praying for him.

Also, traditional Catholics have not turned on Fr. Ripperger either. Here is a link to just one FB group of those who listen to his talks:

Log into Facebook

“The ancient ritual on the other hand actually fosters a prayer life.”

—Fr. Chad Ripperger

God bless

 

[Emeraldlady]

Emeraldlady:

But they aren’t vague attacks. Even (a) Priest within the traditionalist movement are concerned about these problems.

No disrespect to a priest intended, but he is using strawman arguments -

Plus, it is always the one argument that “Father Rippinger said in this interview sound bite’

This one video gets posted frequently by Emeraldlady but it is important to notice that there are 9 other videos in his series, so every time this gets posted it is always posted out of context of the other videos in this series and the many other talks he has made encouraging what he calls the traditionalist movement. Posting this video alone gives the impression he is speaking out against tradition and traditional Catholics and he is not. He is a very traditional priest and is very encouraging to traditional Catholics and that is what this video is about, to encourage traditional Catholicism, to help “recoup traditions” that have been lost.

Here is a link to so many more of his sermons.

Sermons - Sensus Traditionis

Sorry, but I grow tired of vague attacks.

I grow weary of these vague attacks also or the insinuation that Catholics who follow the Church’s 2000 year history of tradition are sinners and the more liberal, progressives are not. Jesus did die for all of our sins, not just tradtiional Catholics.

While there may be some individuals who act this way, they are not the norm. I believe that accepting a stereotype as fact makes it a fact for those who want to denigrate us

This, exactly. Stereotyping people is out of step with the Gospel.

I’ve listened to loads of Fr Rippergers homilies as my daughter follows him. And he is great but you always get the sense that he his frustrated with people coming to tradition with some other agenda or beef or personality flaw, that isn’t compatible with what the movement really is. I don’t know whether many traditionalists really listen hard to him. For instance when I clicked your link above and skimmed the list to his series on tradition, I started listening and he is saying exactly what I was saying in another thread to Stpurl. He says he doesn’t think traditionalists get the difference between the essence of the traditions and the vehicle that transmits it. ie the first is the universal, the second is the mode of conveying it and that second is not what tradition really means. I’ll listen to the rest of the series eventually, but I really hope that traditionalists listen, really listen to what he is saying so they can impart the real essence of traditions and not be so stuck on defending the vehicle as if it is the most important thing.

 

[MagdalenaRita]

I’ve listened to loads of Fr Rippergers homilies as my daughter follows him. And he is great … I don’t know whether many traditionalists really listen hard to him.

I wonder how much you have listened to him because most progressive or liberal Catholics here at CAF if you mention or repeat most anything he has said about the crisis in the Church, feminism, evolution, mother earth, the New Rite of Sacraments, marriage, etc… you will hear a tailspin of complaints about him. I fear even just posting this comment because of that.

That is what bothers me about your linking his video. We can’t repeat anything he says about the traditions of Catholic belief but we can link what he says are problems traditionalists face. Most speakers at the end of a conference will list problems or issues found in any movement. That is what the video you link is and that is all.

I really hope that traditionalists listen, really listen to what he is saying so they can impart the real essence of traditions and not be so stuck on defending the vehicle as if it is the most important thing.

Again, in all charity, I can’t help but wonder how much you have listened to him. He is very much about recouping the traditions of the Church. Yes, not just the externals but the traditional beliefs of the Church as most all traditional Catholics are about also. The externals show the internals of one’s hearts. It is very hard to say the internals are there when they are not being seen in the externals. We act on what we believe.

I can’t count how many times I have heard protestants complain about Catholics following Tradition that I find it very sad to hear it also coming from Catholics themselves.

You might find this series of talks very interesting from Fr. Ripperger also as you are listening to him.

 

[OraLabora]

Catholics following Tradition

I have no problems with Catholics following Tradition. It is at the heart of orthodoxy.

What I have problems with is people confounding tradition and Tradition.

 

[MagdalenaRita]

What I have problems with is people confounding tradition and Tradition.

Yes, though I do think that sometimes that is more of a problem of those seeing and hearing what Catholics say and do rather than what those Catholics following the Tradition and traditions of the Church are about. Many assumptions are made by looking at the outside of a person and making attempts to judge their hearts, which we can not do.

 

[MiserereMeiDei]

What if when Christ comes again He is not ‘kosher’?

Not to worry. When He returns it’s over. No one will be getting an opportunity to judge Him and fall away. He will be judging us as it will be judgement day.