i don’t think you should assume we are so backwards that we don’t realize Allah is the arabic word for God, however, Allah is the name of their God not mine. Allah of the Koran is not equal to the God of the Holy Bible in my opinion.
I didn’t, so take your own advice and not assume before you are critical of others.
The phrase is not a praise of Muslims, or thanking them in any sense of the word. It is nothing but an acknowledgement that the influx of Islam has dampened secularization. This is nothing but a simple acknowledgement of fact, or what is perceived as a fact.
Yes, “Allah” is the word that Arab Christians use for “God,” after it became the de rigeur word for “God” during the spread of Islam. What we don’t know is the word that Arab Christians used for “God” before the spread of Islam. And that doesn’t change the fact that Islam’s Allah is not the same as the Judeo-Christian God.
Go to my previous post and you will see that I mentioned this fact.
So I see. I was a little slow on the uptake.Go to my previous post and you will see that I mentioned this fact.
The Muslims are creating an awakening for many Christians when the Christians see that their freedom of religion could be lost. The thing I find sad is that the Christians needed this wake up call.
There is only one God, but the Muslims are not worshipping him. The true God sent his only son to die for all our sins so that we may be baptised in him and redeemed. The Muslims deny this.
As do the Jews.
If they deny the trinity then no, they do not have the same understanding of God at all. They might worship in essence God the Father but they ignore Christ who is nesseccary for salvation. They are still heretics who follow false prophets or obsolete covenants. Mutual understanding means peace which is good but it does not mean an acceptance that Islam is correct or that without Jesus Christ the muslims can be redeemed and saved.3. The Church regards with esteem also the Moslems. They adore the one God, living and subsisting in Himself; merciful and all- powerful, the Creator of heaven and earth,(5) who has spoken to men; they take pains to submit wholeheartedly to even His inscrutable decrees, just as Abraham, with whom the faith of Islam takes pleasure in linking itself, submitted to God. Though they do not acknowledge Jesus as God, they revere Him as a prophet. They also honor Mary, His virgin Mother; at times they even call on her with devotion. In addition, they await the day of judgment when God will render their deserts to all those who have been raised up from the dead. Finally, they value the moral life and worship God especially through prayer, almsgiving and fasting.
Since in the course of centuries not a few quarrels and hostilities have arisen between Christians and Moslems, this sacred synod urges all to forget the past and to work sincerely for mutual understanding and to preserve as well as to promote together for the benefit of all mankind social justice and moral welfare, as well as peace and freedom
NOSTRA AETATE
PROCLAIMED BY HIS HOLINESS POPE PAUL VI ON OCTOBER 28, 1965
vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_decl_19651028_nostra-aetate_en.html
It seems that Catholic theology accepts the God of Islam, the God of Israel and the God of Jesus Christ as the same God. She sees in Islam the same understanding of God as we have, with the exception of the Trinity. But the Jews don’t share our belief in the Trinity either. We accept that the God of Israel is the same God as the God of Jesus Christ.
Nostra Aetate has never been revoked. In fact, Pope Benedict refers to it frequently.
Fraternally,
JR
But wait a minute. If you read Nostra Aetate carefully and you read Ut Unum Sint and also what Popes John Paul and Benedict have said about the Muslims and Jews, they do worship the One True God. They do not have an understanding of the Trinity as we do. This is true. But neither the Muslims or the Jews are heretics. They cannot be heretics, because they were never Catholic. Only a person who leaves the Catholic Church to follow a false doctrine is a heretic.
But wait a minute. Judaism does not acknowledge the Messiahship of Jesus either. I notice that you are not saying anything about that. Judaism has a very big problem with the Christian theology of the Trinity, because the God of Abraham revealed himself as One. They see the Trinity as dividing the God-Head. But we don’t accuse them of worshipping God wrongly.What is this talk of “unity”?
There can be no unity between Christianity and Islam, we follow Christ, they follow the false prophet Mohammed. We’ll call them infidels if heretic’s technically wrong.
The Old Covenant is obsolete even if the new one builds on it, it’s been updated, like an old obsolete mobile phone model.
I accept that they worship in essence the one true Creator, but very falsly, they deny Christ and the Trinity and only know God through the lies of a satanically inspired false prophet. The Church has always taught that one needs Christ for salvation, I don’t believe Ut Unum Sint says muslims can be saved by Islam. It preaches mutual understanding but they can’t be redeemed like Christians.
Alan
Of course the Jews worship God wrongly, they reject Jesus as Christ, the one redeemer of our souls. Praying in a synagogue does not legitimise their religion, God is everywhere, one can pray anywhere. wishing them a happy Pasover also does not legitimise their religion, that’s just friendliness.
It depends on what you mean by unity. Unity by conversion to Christ, as you allude to in the final sentnce, is of course possible and desirable. But simply “unity”, as in trying to unify our different religions is false and cannot work. Pope Benedict XVI has said this very recently.
Indeed, but the Chrch hs not said he is not diabolical. In my opinion (there you are), the Holy Spirit would and could not guide someone to propogate a faith that explicitly denies Jesus Christ as lord and saviour. Mohammad seemed adamant that he was getting revelations, they had to be comming from somewhere.
It is the official position of the Church that all salvation comes from Jesus through the Church. People outside the Church may only be saved in a state of invincible ignorance, this is also the position of the Church. Non-christians must has absolutely no knowledge of Christ as saviour to be saved. A non-catholic must likewise have no knowledge that the Catholic Church is that which was founded by Christ upon St. Peter to be saved.
Holding them in specieal esteem as brothers and sisters is not the same as saying nothing that would offend them. I’m quite sure that calling Mohammad a false prophet would offend the muslims, but the Church doesn’t teach that we mustn’t say this, because it’s true. In holding them in high esteem, IMO, we must to the mosty charitable thing and evangelise to them the Gospel of Christ, since there will be very few muslims or Jews who have invincible ignorance of Christ.
As I have shown, I do not believe my position to be opposed to that of the Pope, and I’m not supporting acts of terrorism.
One of the definitions givin in my dictionary for “holy” is: “dedicated to God or a religious purpose” (Oxford Concise English Dictionary), therefore it can be described as holy, sacrificing a child to Imhotep is technically holy.
The ongoing validity of the old covenant is embodied in the new covenant, which is the fulfillment of the old. Certain bits of the old covenant, like eating pork or mixed fibres, have been declared nonsense by Jesus. so the Old Covenant, by itself as it was before Jesus, s the Jews practice it, is made obsolete. Circumcision has been replaced by the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins etc.
God bless,Fraternally,
JR
I would strongly suggest that you read some theological works on ecclesiaology, including those of Bonaventure, Robert Bellarmine, Therese of Liseux, Mother Teresa, John XXIII, John Paul II and Benedict XVI. You may get a better grasp of how the Church views salvation for those outside of the Catholic faith.Of course the Jews worship God wrongly, they reject Jesus as Christ, the one redeemer of our souls. Praying in a synagogue does not legitimise their religion, God is everywhere, one can pray anywhere. wishing them a happy Pasover also does not legitimise their religion, that’s just friendliness.
It depends on what you mean by unity. Unity by conversion to Christ, as you allude to in the final sentnce, is of course possible and desirable. But simply “unity”, as in trying to unify our different religions is false and cannot work. Pope Benedict XVI has said this very recently.
Indeed, but the Chrch hs not said he is not diabolical. In my opinion (there you are), the Holy Spirit would and could not guide someone to propogate a faith that explicitly denies Jesus Christ as lord and saviour. Mohammad seemed adamant that he was getting revelations, they had to be comming from somewhere.
It is the official position of the Church that all salvation comes from Jesus through the Church. People outside the Church may only be saved in a state of invincible ignorance, this is also the position of the Church. Non-christians must has absolutely no knowledge of Christ as saviour to be saved. A non-catholic must likewise have no knowledge that the Catholic Church is that which was founded by Christ upon St. Peter to be saved.
Holding them in specieal esteem as brothers and sisters is not the same as saying nothing that would offend them. I’m quite sure that calling Mohammad a false prophet would offend the muslims, but the Church doesn’t teach that we mustn’t say this, because it’s true. In holding them in high esteem, IMO, we must to the mosty charitable thing and evangelise to them the Gospel of Christ, since there will be very few muslims or Jews who have invincible ignorance of Christ.
BTW, withi a year of being elected as Pope, Benedict XVI had the muslims burning straw effigies of him for essentually calling Islam a violent religion, so it is definatly not the position of the Church that catholic must not express anything that would offend other faiths.
As I have shown, I do not believe my position to be opposed to that of the Pope, and I’m not supporting acts of terrorism.
Cont…
