"Vatican to Issue Stamp Featuring Martin Luther"

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pnewton said:
What is so funny is that there was a new thread yesterday where this was done politically by Trump supporters. It is a rather popular tactic.
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Was that my thread on the Australian paper which said “Why are Trump haters so Intolerant?”

The one that in my very opening post I apologised for the title as it came from the paper itself and went out of my way to say that of course not all opponents of Trump are haters and intolerant?

That is, making overly sure to define such ideas and tactics wrong from the very outset.

The original Australian story was written by an agnostic secular conservative, not really a Trump supporter but someone who was certainly happy that the Democrats lost.

In fact the writer has been quite critical of Donald Trump.
 
abucs said:
Was that my thread on the Australian paper which said “Why are Trump haters so Intolerant?”

The one that in my very opening post I apologised for the title as it came from the paper itself and went out of my way to say that of course not all opponents of Trump are haters and intolerant?
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I know. We can never blame posters for the thread titles they have to use.
 
pnewton said:
I know. We can never blame posters for the thread titles they have to use.
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A common problem. I think that at one point people were adding notes like [Misleading Headline], but then you get in fights over whether the headline is really misleading. While imperfect, using the actual article headline is probably the best practice.
 
From: vaticanstate.va/content/vaticanstate/en/servizi/ufficio-filatelico-e-numismatico/programma-emissioni1.html

STAMPS
  1. Code: 
    Pontificate of Pope Francis MMXVII
  2. Code: 
    Holy Christmas (Joint issue with the Principality of Monaco)
  3. Code: 
    Easter of Resurrection
  4. Code: 
    The Apostolic Journeys of Pope Francis- Year 2016
  5. Code: 
    Europe 2017: "Castles"
  6. Code: 
    450th Anniversary of the birth of Saint Frances of Sales
  7. Code: 
    350th Anniversary of the death of Pope Alexander VII and Francesco Borromini
  8. Code: 
    90th Birthday of Pope Benedict XVI
  9. Code: 
    1950° Anniversary of the Martyrdom of Saint Peter and Saint Paul
  10. Code: 
    Centenary of the Fatima apparitions
  11. Code: 
    Centenary of the birth of Cardinal Domenico Bartolucci, director of the Pontifical Musical Chapel
  12. Code: 
    50th Anniversary of the death of Don Lorenzo Milani
  13. Code: 
    50th Anniversary of the Encyclical Letter "Populorum Progressio" by Pope Paul VI
  14. Code: 
    Centenary of the death of Saint Francesca Saverio Cabrini, patroness of migrants
  15. Code: 
    200th Anniversary of the Foundation of the Institute of the Marist teaching Brothers
16. 5th Centenary of the Protestant Reformation
17. 600th Anniversary of the Diocese of Samogitia (Joint issue with Lithuania)

Says nothing about Luther. Guess we will wait and see what it looks like.
 
Pulvis said:
From: vaticanstate.va/content/vaticanstate/en/servizi/ufficio-filatelico-e-numismatico/programma-emissioni1.html

STAMPS
  1. Code: 
    Pontificate of Pope Francis MMXVII
  2. Code: 
    Holy Christmas (Joint issue with the Principality of Monaco)
  3. Code: 
    Easter of Resurrection
  4. Code: 
    The Apostolic Journeys of Pope Francis- Year 2016
  5. Code: 
    Europe 2017: "Castles"
  6. Code: 
    450th Anniversary of the birth of Saint Frances of Sales
  7. Code: 
    350th Anniversary of the death of Pope Alexander VII and Francesco Borromini
  8. Code: 
    90th Birthday of Pope Benedict XVI
  9. Code: 
    1950° Anniversary of the Martyrdom of Saint Peter and Saint Paul
  10. Code: 
    Centenary of the Fatima apparitions
  11. Code: 
    Centenary of the birth of Cardinal Domenico Bartolucci, director of the Pontifical Musical Chapel
  12. Code: 
    50th Anniversary of the death of Don Lorenzo Milani
  13. Code: 
    50th Anniversary of the Encyclical Letter "Populorum Progressio" by Pope Paul VI
  14. Code: 
    Centenary of the death of Saint Francesca Saverio Cabrini, patroness of migrants
  15. Code: 
    200th Anniversary of the Foundation of the Institute of the Marist teaching Brothers
16. 5th Centenary of the Protestant Reformation
17. 600th Anniversary of the Diocese of Samogitia (Joint issue with Lithuania)

Says nothing about Luther. Guess we will wait and see what it looks like.
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Pulvis. Thank you for the update. I am very curious myself about what will come. I hope in the end it will be for the best for the Church.

I have strong faith and trust in the wisdom of JPII and Benedict XVI. I love, respect and miss these two great popes so much. Their initiation and insistence on healthy and honest dialogues on past disputes as guided by faithful reading and interpretation of Vatican II on ecumenism are both correct and courageous. This matter has been in the hands of pope Francis and the bishops. For our part, we need to have opened minds and hearts so that we can grow spiritually and intellectually. Above all, let’s have recourse to hope and prayers.
 
Mark121359 said:
“To honor someone who so publicly ripped asunder the fabric of Christendom is appalling. Who’s next?..Judas Iscariot?”
~Fr. John Zuhlsdorf~
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Actually, the Catholic Church (Paulist Productions) did create these masterpieces ☺️:

Judas (2004)

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judas_(film)

imdb.com/title/tt0286739

beliefnet.com/entertainment/movies/2004/03/the-judas-touch.aspx

decentfilms.com/articles/judas

tulsaworld.com/archives/tv-takes-another-look-at-why-judas-betrayed-jesus/article_a2ce1692-504d-54d2-9f17-f51cde351464.html?mode=jqm

tmatt.net/columns/2004/03/the-passion-according-to-judas

Judas - Traitor or Friend (for the History Channel)

imdb.com/title/tt1278383

youtube.com/watch?v=e3CnZxTTq40 (I think this is it, but I’m not certain)
 
If this report is true…

Reason cannot understand what is unreasonable. Don’t even go there.
 
 
EIF5A said:
As long as there’s a separation between what he did right and what he did wrong, there shouldn’t be confusion…perhaps…I think…
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Every heresy says some things that are true. Nestorius confessed that Jesus had a human and a divine nature. Arius said that Jesus was divine. The monophysites confessed that Jesus was fully human. But we don’t celebrate any of them, because they were heretical.
 
Really…The Vatican using some of the world’s so much loved “tolerance”. I get why; it should be a step towards reunification with Lutherans. But it isn’t the best way to do it, as all it seems to be and will seem to the future generations, is that the Church is celebrating a heretical priest.

Even my priest thought of doing something for the 500 years of the Reformation. If we start doing this, we place the bar much for what we ought to celebrate. It isn’t much different than the Olympic games, then.
🤷
 
Calm down, everyone. It’s an ecumenical gesture. Show some ecumenical spirit. The Luther stamps is not a stamp of approval, but acknowledging his importance in Church history, yes, even our history.
 
The Vatican has this:

**FROM CONFLICT TO COMMUNION

Lutheran-Catholic Common Commemoration of the Reformation in 2017**
  1. In 2017, Lutheran and Catholic Christians will commemorate together the 500th anniversary of the beginning of the Reformation. Lutherans and Catholics today enjoy a growth in mutual understanding, cooperation, and respect. They have come to acknowledge that more unites than divides them: above all, common faith in the Triune God and the revelation in Jesus Christ, as well as recognition of the basic truths of the doctrine of justification.
vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/chrstuni/lutheran-fed-docs/rc_pc_chrstuni_doc_2013_dal-conflitto-alla-comunione_en.html
 
Nelka said:
:hmmm:
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Thank you for that.
Yes, it is our history, but the part of it that needed correction. In that sense only, it is our story.The ecumenical spirit should be clearly directed to unity. That stamp is to celebrate, not the dialogue, but the Reformation.

I don’t think any Protestant would put out a stamp for the Counter-Reformation; that would be ecumenical as well. To me, even what the Vatican wrote is at best an unfortunate phrasing. Uniting in celebating heresy isn’t unity in the Faith. We know they don’t intend to celebrate heresy, still…it is what the stamp is for. So, no thank you.
 
MarcoPG said:
Thank you for that.
Yes, it is our history, but the part of it that needed correction. In that sense only, it is our story.The ecumenical spirit should be clearly directed to unity. That stamp is to celebrate, not the dialogue, but the Reformation.

I don’t think any Protestant would put out a stamp for the Counter-Reformation; that would be ecumenical as well. To me, even what the Vatican wrote is at best an unfortunate phrasing. Uniting in celebating heresy isn’t unity in the Faith. We know they don’t intend to celebrate heresy, still…it is what the stamp is for. So, no thank you.
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  1. In 2017, Lutheran and Catholic Christians will **commemorate **together the 500th anniversary of the beginning of the Reformation. Lutherans and Catholics today enjoy a growth in mutual understanding, cooperation, and respect. They have come to acknowledge that more unites than divides them: above all, common faith in the Triune God and the revelation in Jesus Christ, as well as recognition of the basic truths of the doctrine of justification.
It’s a commemoration, not a celebration. See the post above that I just quoted.
 
TheAdvocate said:
  1. In 2017, Lutheran and Catholic Christians will **commemorate **together the 500th anniversary of the beginning of the Reformation. Lutherans and Catholics today enjoy a growth in mutual understanding, cooperation, and respect. They have come to acknowledge that more unites than divides them: above all, common faith in the Triune God and the revelation in Jesus Christ, as well as recognition of the basic truths of the doctrine of justification.
It’s a commemoration, not a celebration. See the post above that I just quoted.
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I understand it is a commemoration, but one commemorates something good or bad. It is good for the Lutherans. Can we say it as for the Catholics? I wouldn’t think so. Therefore, since it is common, how are we to commemorate? Since it is remembering, we should remember what Luther did, which we cannot say, as Catholics, that it was the best he could have done.
Moreover, I am curious what the stamp will feature, as it will be what future generations will remember of this.
 
I don’t understand.

If my wife left me I wouldn’t celebrate with her in ten years of our divorce. I can be civil to her, love her, want her to be happy but cannot celebrate the day she left.

🤷
 
He leads me in the right path
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“The Lord” he (the psalter) says, “does not stop feeding me in a green pasture and leading me to freshwater and thus restoring my soul. He also leads me in the right paths so that I may not go astray, get into the wilderness, and thus perish. That is, He keeps me in pure doctrine, that I may not be misled by false spirits or fall away from it because of temptation or offense; that I may know how I am to walk and live outwardly and not take offense at the holiness and strict lives of hypocrites; that I may also know what is right doctrine, faith and worship.”
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Another fine fruit and power of the dear Word is this: those who cling to it firmly not only receive from it strength and comfort for their souls but are also protected against false doctrine and false holiness.
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Luther - excerpt - exegesis on Psalm 23 - 1536
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The hard truth is, at that time the Church badly needed reform, and the Reformation, starting with Luther, gave the Church the nudge it needed. Do you really think without Luther, there would have been a Council of Trent?
 
TheAdvocate said:
The hard truth is, at that time the Church badly needed reform, and the Reformation, starting with Luther, gave the Church the nudge it needed. Do you really think without Luther, there would have been a Council of Trent?
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Maybe not; ideally, there would have been no Council to settle things that were to be hold as divinely revealed as Scripture, settled more than 1000 years before Luther anyway, and Tradition (settled pretty much with Christ).

It is true, the Church needed readjustment, but a Saint Francis, a Catherine of SIena could have been found. But so is history. Despite some good consequences, let’s call them so, we cannot say here “Oh, happy fault!” It is excatly what one shouldn’t do: do evil to get a good outcome.
 
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