Veils at Other People's Weddings

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Chiltepin said:
I hope this doesn’t come out sounding inflammatory, but I have a talent for that sometimes. Christ died for my sins; my sister did not. (Not a statement I would use in the conversation with her, naturally) I am not comfortable sacrificing something I do for Him as a sacrifice to her.

I really like the nature of your argument, it just has not convinced me to give up the practice for the wedding. It is not as though what I am doing is unprecedented (Again not saying you all have to, just that this practice did not come out of nowhere). It was once very normal to do this. It is not like I have taken to tap dancing during the Eucharistic prayer, wearing an exaggerated top hat, or playing the kazoo out of devotion to Christ. Those things have no precedent in the history of the Mass… that I know of.
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I completely agree with you here, and that was my first thought when I saw that post. Christ should always take precedence, as the Scriptures clearly state.
 
We’re called to be imitators of Christ Who sacrificed Himself for love of us. I wholeheartedly believe it would be more pleasing to Him that you sacrifice the veil devotion for love of your sister, in this one instance. It’s a wonderful mortification for you it sounds like, an extra penance even that could be used in numerous ways, and again, a reflection of the sacrifice of Him…in all things charity.

Just my personal thoughts here.

"God sets great store by those who struggle for sanctity, no matter what their life’s work is. Moreover, those who sacrifice and struggle sustain the entire world by their merits.

If we offer our sacrifices for others, God then pours out His mercy and forgiveness upon those who may have done nothing themselves to merit it.

This is called the ‘Treasury of Merits,’ or the ‘Treasury of Satisfactions of the Church.’" ~ArchBishop Fulton J. Sheen

Glad
 
GladCatholic said:
We’re called to be imitators of Christ Who sacrificed Himself for love of us. I wholeheartedly believe it would be more pleasing to Him that you sacrifice the veil devotion for love of your sister, in this one instance. It’s a wonderful mortification for you it sounds like, an extra penance even that could be used in numerous ways, and again, a reflection of the sacrifice of Him…in all things charity.

Just my personal thoughts here.

"God sets great store by those who struggle for sanctity, no matter what their life’s work is. Moreover, those who sacrifice and struggle sustain the entire world by their merits.

If we offer our sacrifices for others, God then pours out His mercy and forgiveness upon those who may have done nothing themselves to merit it.

This is called the ‘Treasury of Merits,’ or the ‘Treasury of Satisfactions of the Church.’" ~ArchBishop Fulton J. Sheen

Glad
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You are implying, though, that we women who veil do it for ourselves. We DON’T. We do it for Christ.
 
I’m not implying any such things. We’re to imitate He Who died for us, the ultimate sacrifice. You don’t think it would please Him more that you make this hard sacrifice out of charity and love for Him for your neighbor, in this case your sister, and ask the graces go for her better understanding of Catholic devotions? You think Jesus is that hung up on maintaining a steadfast devotion when an extreme level of charity for someone else He died for would probably bring more mercy into the world?

Doesn’t matter to me one way or the other. There are countless things I’ve done as a penance, and have been very disappointed over not being able to do what I do for Him, which I know pleases Him–probably sounds foreign to some, but giving up the things you do for Him is a suffering and suffering such as this is pleasing to the Lord.

Good luck with whatever you decide. And I’m amused that you assume I don’t veil.

Glad
 
GladCatholic said:
I’m not implying any such things. We’re to imitate He Who died for us, the ultimate sacrifice. You don’t think it would please Him more that you make this hard sacrifice out of charity and love for Him for your neighbor, in this case your sister, and ask the graces go for her better understanding of Catholic devotions? You think Jesus is that hung up on maintaining a steadfast devotion when an extreme level of charity for someone else He died for would probably bring more mercy into the world?

Doesn’t matter to me one way or the other. There are countless things I’ve done as a penance, and have been very disappointed over not being able to do what I do for Him, which I know pleases Him–probably sounds foreign to some, but giving up the things you do for Him is a suffering and suffering such as this is pleasing to the Lord.

Good luck with whatever you decide. And I’m amused that you assume I don’t veil.

Glad
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I don’t assume anything. This is the most interesting argument I have heard on that side so far and it is worth a lot of pondering. I’ve read it a few times and am probably responding too quickly as I think it would take a while to really reflect on all that it means.

I would understand if you felt it was too personal, but could you expand on the things that you suffered in giving up for Him?

I see great merit in what you are saying but am having difficulty creating such a scenario in my head. All I have thought of so far is like a person is on their way to some rosary group or something and has to miss it because they are presented with an opportunity to be charitable. Giving someone else a ride or helping a friend or stranger in real need of help.

That makes total sense, sure it is a devotion but you needed to help someone else and as you say it is what Jesus wants. The only way I am able to liken the veil thing is you’re at mass or on the way to mass and somebody gets a huge gash on their arm so you tie it up tight with your head covering to keep them from bleeding out and once they are safe attend mass without a head covering.

I hope I don’t sound insincere with my strange example. I am really very interested in your way of looking at this.

edit so as not to double post:

Also, I realize that this way of thinking is really an expansion upon what Janechantal53 was saying. I do not mean to leave her without credit.

My hope in creating the thread was that in the way that GladCatholic’s explanation expanded on Janechantal53’s to make things make more sense to me, someone would have that magical explanation that made what I do make sense to my sister.

In the end I’m probably going to buy one of these alternatives mentioned by the first few posters and show it to her without mentioning devotions of any kind. I will attempt conversation as conversation is necessary and choose my words VERY carefully.

I am really enjoying the conversations here though, so (name removed by moderator)ut is still welcome.
 
Chiltepin said:
Sorry for double posting, I really need to learn how to quote more than one person in a post.

That is an interesting way to look at it. I really wish it convinced me because it sounds very beautiful. I am not opposed to making sacrifices for love of my sister.

I hope this doesn’t come out sounding inflammatory, but I have a talent for that sometimes. Christ died for my sins; my sister did not. (Not a statement I would use in the conversation with her, naturally) I am not comfortable sacrificing something I do for Him as a sacrifice to her.

I really like the nature of your argument, it just has not convinced me to give up the practice for the wedding. It is not as though what I am doing is unprecedented (Again not saying you all have to, just that this practice did not come out of nowhere). It was once very normal to do this. It is not like I have taken to tap dancing during the Eucharistic prayer, wearing an exaggerated top hat, or playing the kazoo out of devotion to Christ. Those things have no precedent in the history of the Mass… that I know of.
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Chiltepin, I love your way with words!!! Liturgical kazoo-playing…now there’s a thought! 😉
 
Talk to a bridal shop…Years ago ladies all wore a head piece when there were in the bridal party…They might be able to order something suitable…
 
You don’t sound insincere. I understand what you’re saying.

The immediate issue at hand is this: Mass starts at 7 and I have to eat with my family by 6. Which means I have 15 minutes to do it! 🙂

I believe the specifics you ask for I’m going to answer in a PM to you if it is alright with you.

One suggestion I would make–go into private prayer and really ask the Lord what it is He would want you to do: maintain your promised devotion you do for Him out of love, or sacrifice that devotion for this day, for your sister, and tell Him how painful that would be for you. Ask Him what it is He would prefer…

AND, incidentally, there are such cool hats! Get a few pics and see if she’ll go for one.

Glad
 
PatienceAndLove said:
Since it’s just you (ie: no other bridesmaids), I think a feathered headband would be tres chic!
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Beautiful! I have really liked all the alternatives provided by you all. I need to smoosh them all together into a brochure or something for her. Would I look like a total dufus if I wore two so both sides of my head would be covered?

Some of that would be about feeling covered and the rest about symmetry. I am willing to sacrifice symmetry for my sister. I will be as lop-sided as she wants me to be.

I really am quite ridiculous. You are all helping me to see this! ❤️
 
What you can do is to find some veiling that is an open net and stitch it to the headpiece…a seamstress might be able to help you…call your fabric stores to see if they carry any
 
GladCatholic said:
I’m not implying any such things. We’re to imitate He Who died for us, the ultimate sacrifice. You don’t think it would please Him more that you make this hard sacrifice out of charity and love for Him for your neighbor, in this case your sister, and ask the graces go for her better understanding of Catholic devotions? You think Jesus is that hung up on maintaining a steadfast devotion when an extreme level of charity for someone else He died for would probably bring more mercy into the world?

Doesn’t matter to me one way or the other. There are countless things I’ve done as a penance, and have been very disappointed over not being able to do what I do for Him, which I know pleases Him–probably sounds foreign to some, but giving up the things you do for Him is a suffering and suffering such as this is pleasing to the Lord.

Good luck with whatever you decide. And I’m amused that you assume I don’t veil.

Glad
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What worries me about the implications of this argument is that we are supposed to deny certain devotions in order to use the graces so that others will have a better understanding of Catholic devotions?

Without being inflammatory, I think the best understanding a non-Catholic (or Catholics who don’t practice a certain devotion) can have of a devotion is when they see a person steadfastly adhere to that devotion amidst societal (or familial) pressure to abandon it.

An argument that basically tells us that Christ would “prefer” us to compromise a particular devotion to Him in order to please our family (or whatever reason) arouses my suspicions.
 
GladCatholic said:
One suggestion I would make–go into private prayer and really ask the Lord what it is He would want you to do: maintain your promised devotion you do for Him out of love, or sacrifice that devotion for this day, for your sister, and tell Him how painful that would be for you. Ask Him what it is He would prefer…
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This is very good advice that I really appreciate. Seems like a good place to ask Him about it would be in Eucharistic Adoration where I would most certainly be covering my head. I honestly don’t know why I didn’t think of that. I was so caught up in getting (name removed by moderator)ut from other people(which I still do value 🙂 Thanks everyone! ). That should have been the first place I went.

I think I get the drift of what you are saying by your breakfast example, but am certainly not opposed to PM’s.
Extempore said:
What worries me about the implications of this argument is that we are supposed to deny certain devotions in order to use the graces so that others will have a better understanding of Catholic devotions?

Without being inflammatory, I think the best understanding a non-Catholic (or Catholics who don’t practice a certain devotion) can have of a devotion is when they see a person steadfastly adhere to that devotion amidst societal (or familial) pressure to abandon it.

An argument that basically tells us that Christ would “prefer” us to compromise a particular devotion to Him in order to please our family (or whatever reason) arouses my suspicions.
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Thank you so much! I knew something really wasn’t sitting right with me in that view but I could not explain it.
 
Chiltepin said:
Beautiful! I have really liked all the alternatives provided by you all. I need to smoosh them all together into a brochure or something for her. Would I look like a total dufus if I wore two so both sides of my head would be covered?

Some of that would be about feeling covered and the rest about symmetry. I am willing to sacrifice symmetry for my sister. I will be as lop-sided as she wants me to be.

I really am quite ridiculous. You are all helping me to see this! ❤️
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The ones on the link cover the whole head (it’s a site for women who cover fulltime). This is not a good picture (it’s not reflective of the ones on the link. I just wanted to illustrate the pretty:p )
 
Chiltepin, as a woman who veils (the name gave it away, right?) I have the following to offer:
  1. Keep to your preference.
  2. There are such great options! I looked at all the links and oh, such pretty things! I personally can recommend Devorah’s work. I have a gorgeous, precious creation from her that still takes my breath away.
  3. I was surprised by the negative comments. I have never heard anything negative from anyone on my wearing a mantilla, only compliments and questions on where they could get one. Maybe I live in an old-fashioned town?
Get printouts of all the options (maybe flag the ones you really like) and present it to your sis. A very fashionable solution is possible.
 
Chiltepin said:
This is very good advice that I really appreciate. Seems like a good place to ask Him about it would be in Eucharistic Adoration where I would most certainly be covering my head. I honestly don’t know why I didn’t think of that. I was so caught up in getting (name removed by moderator)ut from other people(which I still do value 🙂 Thanks everyone! ). That should have been the first place I went.

I think I get the drift of what you are saying by your breakfast example, but am certainly not opposed to PM’s.

Thank you so much! I knew something really wasn’t sitting right with me in that view but I could not explain it.
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It’s not giving up a devotion because some family member is uncomfortable with a veil–it’s her sister’s wedding. Quite a difference. A wedding…you know, you get one of these in a lifetime.

And I’ve got to LOL–it wasn’t a breakfast example. I meant to say Mass was at 7 tonight and I couldn’t answer you because I had 15 minutes to eat before I had the 1-hour fast.
 
GladCatholic said:
And I’ve got to LOL–it wasn’t a breakfast example. I meant to say Mass was at 7 tonight and I couldn’t answer you because I had 15 minutes to eat before I had the 1-hour fast.
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OH :tiphat: I really thought your example was that you sometimes decide to eat breakfast less than an hour before mass so that your family can eat. I will admit it seemed pretty anti-climactic after your previous very thoughtful posts.
 
The actual veil is not really the issue here. It is how much are you willing to sacrifice for the love of your brother/sister, who are in fact tabernacles of the Lord? Jesus washed our feet. We are to wash the feet of one another. Jesus died for us. We are to die to ourselves for one another. If He cannot trust us with small things, how can He trust us with the larger ones? When our lives become living sacrifices to the Lord and we can do it with joy in our hearts, I believe that we will truly be close to God. It is my hope. It is what I live for…
 
Janechantal53 said:
The actual veil is not really the issue here. It is how much are you willing to sacrifice for the love of your brother/sister, who are in fact tabernacles of the Lord? Jesus washed our feet. We are to wash the feet of one another. Jesus died for us. We are to die to ourselves for one another. If He cannot trust us with small things, how can He trust us with the larger ones? When our lives become living sacrifices to the Lord and we can do it with joy in our hearts, I believe that we will truly be close to God. It is my hope. It is what I live for…
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I agree. We should always be willing to sacrifice for our family. But, the more important question - should we ever sacrifice (read: compromise) our devotion to our Lord?

Suppose my family is insulted by my praying the rosary or saying a prayer before meals on a certain occasion. Shall I also compromise these personal devotions? The Church does not tell me either of these devotions are mandatory. Would you really have me believe that it is the wish of God that I make these compromises for the sake of harmony?

Is this really what Jesus was asking of us, when he told us to sacrifice or was he talking about the things of this world? Devotions are not simply meaningless actions or stupid little rituals that we do because they make us feel “spiritual.” I hope that we will not continue to trivialize them in the name of collegiality.
 
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