Very confused on "No Salvation Outside the Catholic Church."

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What? The seal can be broken??? Hardly! It would not be much of a seal if I can break it. No, it can’t be broken by me and God will not break it. Paul states with absolute certainty that the believer is sealed until the day of redemption of his body. He doesn’t say that we are sealed until we sin. Now, when our LORD Jesus Christ was on earth ministering to Israel [Mt. 15:24] He was speaking to a people still under the Law. That is why He told them to keep the commandments.
QC
The seal is a covenant,and the believer must be true to that covenant by obediesnce to Gods’ will,that is,by following the commandments. Paul warned the gentile Christians that they may be cut off from salvation just as the Jews who rejected Christ were.

The moral commandments were not rendered unnecessary along with the ritual commandments. They are permanently necessary for salvation. The very purpose of grace
is to assist us in fulfilling them. Grace is divine assistance to persevere in holiness,not a
decree that one is saved for eternity.
 
Tell that to the marines! If you can so deny Christ, you can deny anything. Time to take off the blinkers.

**Jesus founded His Church on Peter:
All four promises to Peter alone: **
“You are Peter and on this rock I will build My Church.” (Mt 16:18)
“The gates of hell will not prevail against it.”(Mt 16:18)
“I will give you the keys of the Kingdom of heaven.” ( Mt 16:19)
“Whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven.” (Mt 16:19)

**Sole authority: **
“Strengthen your brethren.” (Lk 22:32)
“Feed My sheep.”(Jn 21:17).

Already, Peter had exercised his supreme authority in the upper room before Pentecost to have Judas’ place filled. At the first Apostolic Council of Jerusalem Peter settled the heated discussion over circumcising the gentiles and “the whole assembly fell silent” (Acts 15:7-12). Paul made sure that his ministry to the gentiles was recognised by, Peter (Gal 1:I8).

One of the foremost theologians at Vatican I, Giovanni Perrone, expresses what we have seen well for he “was on most biblical grounds when he pointed out that Christians must adhere to the pope not because he is infallible; but since they must, on divine command, adhere to the pope, he has to be infallible.” (The Keys of the Kingdom, Franciscan Herald Press, 1986, p 170).

Tradition shows Pope St Clement exercising his primacy in about 96, on a matter of schism in the Church of Corinth. Of the same generation as Saints Peter and Paul and when St John the Apostle was probably still living in Ephesus, Pope Clement wrote as one commanding to the Church of Corinth in Greece: “If any disobey what He (Christ) says through us, let them know that they will be involved in no small offence and danger, but we shall be innocent of this sin.” (I Clem. ad Cor. 59,1).

It’s interesting also that Arnold Lunn in Now I See, Sheed & Ward, 1955, could quote from the Anglican Vicar of Oddington, Rev S Herbert Scott (in The Eastern Churches and the Papacy, – approved for a research doctorate at the University of Oxford), that St Peter and his successors were recognised as the supreme judges in matters of faith by a long succession of great Eastern saints, Ignatius, Irenaeus, Denys, Athanasius, Chrysostom, and others.

Scott quotes from the Graeco-Slav Liturgy at the Council of Nicea (325) addressing the Pope, St Sylvester, who was not himself present: “…thou didst appear as a pillar of fire, snatching the faithful from Egyptian error (sc. Arius) and continually leading them with unerring teachings to divine light.” [Op. cit. Lunn, p 218-9]. Sir Arnold remarks that “This unwilling tribute from the Greek Church…to the “unerring teaching” of the Roman Pope is most impressive.”
When our wonderful Lord Jesus Christ was on this earth He was “a minister of the circumcision” [Israel] Romans 15:8… He sent the 12 only to Israel. He, the 12 and John the Baptist proclaimed “the kingdom at hand.” This is the earthly “kingdom” promised to Israel. Matthew is THE “kingdom” book! The church mentioned in 16:18 is connected to that earthly [Jewish] kingdom. In Mt. 19:28 our Lord told the 12 that they would sit on 12 thrones judging the 12 tribes of Israel when “the Son of Man” [a title connected to Israel and the earth] sits on His throne" - on the earth. Peter and the other apostles performed many miracles, wonders and signs in early Acts in anticipation of the setting up of this kingdom. Peter actually offers our Lord’s return and the setting up of this kingdom in Acts 3:19-21. It is very poor exegesis to apply Mt. 16 to the Body of Christ.
 
The seal is a covenant,and the believer must be true to that covenant by obediesnce to Gods’ will,that is,by following the commandments. Paul warned the gentile Christians that they may be cut off from salvation just as the Jews who rejected Christ were.

The moral commandments were not rendered unnecessary along with the ritual commandments. They are permanently necessary for salvation. The very purpose of grace
is to assist us in fulfilling them. Grace is divine assistance to persevere in holiness,not a
decree that one is saved for eternity.
And that, in a nutshell, is the biggest difference in philosophy between Catholics and liberal Protestants on one side, and evangelicals and fundamentalist Protestants on the other.

Bengoshi I am enjoying the discussion here because it is full of information on Church history, but you seem to be taking over the thread with an effort to convert. Your posts seem to be an effort to further an evangelical agenda. I just want to point out that Forum Rules suggest that this is not the place for you to be trying to convert Catholics to your way of thinking, because it is really disrespectful to those Catholics here. I’m just saying…😦

If the rest of you Wise Ones 🙂 are actually enjoying trying to explain it to Bengoshi, I apologize for saying anything.
 
When our wonderful Lord Jesus Christ was on this earth He was “a minister of the circumcision” [Israel] Romans 15:8… He sent the 12 only to Israel. He, the 12 and John the Baptist proclaimed “the kingdom at hand.” This is the earthly “kingdom” promised to Israel. Matthew is THE “kingdom” book! The church mentioned in 16:18 is connected to that earthly [Jewish] kingdom. In Mt. 19:28 our Lord told the 12 that they would sit on 12 thrones judging the 12 tribes of Israel when “the Son of Man” [a title connected to Israel and the earth] sits on His throne" - on the earth. Peter and the other apostles performed many miracles, wonders and signs in early Acts in anticipation of the setting up of this kingdom. Peter actually offers our Lord’s return and the setting up of this kingdom in Acts 3:19-21. It is very poor exegesis to apply Mt. 16 to the Body of Christ.
The above is so wrong it is pathetic. Has protestantism sunk so low that even this is acceptable exogesis? Romans 15:8 says:

“For I tell you that Christ became a servant to the circumcised to show God’s truthfulness, in order to confirm the promises given to the patriarchs,”

All it says is that Jesus fulfilled all the prophesies pertaining to the Messiah as given in the OT. And when it was proclaimed that “the kingdom was at hand” that meantthe kingdom was not there yet but would soon would be. Therefore it could not refer to Israel but to the church that was to come on Pentecost. As for Acts 3:19-21 it is a call to repent and convert not about setting up a kingdom.
 
The above is so wrong it is pathetic. Has protestantism sunk so low that even this is acceptable exogesis? Romans 15:8 says:

“For I tell you that Christ became a servant to the circumcised to show God’s truthfulness, in order to confirm the promises given to the patriarchs,”

All it says is that Jesus fulfilled all the prophesies pertaining to the Messiah as given in the OT. And when it was proclaimed that “the kingdom was at hand” that meantthe kingdom was not there yet but would soon would be. Therefore it could not refer to Israel but to the church that was to come on Pentecost. As for Acts 3:19-21 it is a call to repent and convert not about setting up a kingdom.
What is pathetic is your “spiritualizing” of clear Scripture in the attempt to make it fit your scheme of things. When my Lord Jesus Christ said, “I am not sent but unto the 12 tribes of Israel” {Mt 15:24] He meant exactly that. When He told the 12 that they “would sit on 12 thrones judging the 12 tribes of Israel” [Mt 19:28] He mean exactly that. During His last 40 days on earth my Lord Jesus Christ spent His time teaching the 11 from the Old Testament Scriptures, about the earthly kingdom promised to Israel. He opened their understanding on these Scriptures and they asked Him about the time element. He told them that it “was not for them to know the times or the seasons” [Acts 1:7]. Acts 3:19-21 is actually the first offer of this kingdom and the return of the Lord Jesus Christ [vs 20]. All of this was contingent upon Israel repenting of the terrible crime of murdering their Messiah. BTW, a simple study of Peter’s sermons in early Acts reveals that he presented the cross as bad news. The Body of Christ was first revealed to Paul. He is the apostle to the Gentiles [Romans 11:13]. Peter had to learn from Paul - Galatians 2:1-9. Note that James, Peter and John agreed to confine their ministry to Israel.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by inkaneer
The above is so wrong it is pathetic. Has protestantism sunk so low that even this is acceptable exogesis? Romans 15:8 says:

“For I tell you that Christ became a servant to the circumcised to show God’s truthfulness, in order to confirm the promises given to the patriarchs,”

All it says is that Jesus fulfilled all the prophesies pertaining to the Messiah as given in the OT. And when it was proclaimed that “the kingdom was at hand” that meantthe kingdom was not there yet but would soon would be. Therefore it could not refer to Israel but to the church that was to come on Pentecost. As for Acts 3:19-21 it is a call to repent and convert not about setting up a kingdom.
What is pathetic is your “spiritualizing” of clear Scripture in the attempt to make it fit your scheme of things. When my Lord Jesus Christ said, “I am not sent but unto the 12 tribes of Israel” {Mt 15:24] He meant exactly that. When He told the 12 that they “would sit on 12 thrones judging the 12 tribes of Israel” [Mt 19:28] He mean exactly that. During His last 40 days on earth my Lord Jesus Christ spent His time teaching the 11 from the Old Testament Scriptures, about the earthly kingdom promised to Israel. He opened their understanding on these Scriptures and they asked Him about the time element. He told them that it “was not for them to know the times or the seasons” [Acts 1:7]. Acts 3:19-21 is actually the first offer of this kingdom and the return of the Lord Jesus Christ [vs 20]. All of this was contingent upon Israel repenting of the terrible crime of murdering their Messiah. BTW, a simple study of Peter’s sermons in early Acts reveals that he presented the cross as bad news. The Body of Christ was first revealed to Paul. He is the apostle to the Gentiles [Romans 11:13]. Peter had to learn from Paul - Galatians 2:1-9. Note that James, Peter and John agreed to confine their ministry to Israel.
Why are you here? To find someone who agrees with your interpretation? Go find a protestant forum. You’ll have a better chance there to find someone to agree with you. You may even get enough to start your own denomination. Then you can be their pope. You won’t be unique, lots of others have done it before you. Farewell!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by inkaneer
The above is so wrong it is pathetic. Has protestantism sunk so low that even this is acceptable exogesis? Romans 15:8 says:

“For I tell you that Christ became a servant to the circumcised to show God’s truthfulness, in order to confirm the promises given to the patriarchs,”

All it says is that Jesus fulfilled all the prophesies pertaining to the Messiah as given in the OT. And when it was proclaimed that “the kingdom was at hand” that meantthe kingdom was not there yet but would soon would be. Therefore it could not refer to Israel but to the church that was to come on Pentecost. As for Acts 3:19-21 it is a call to repent and convert not about setting up a kingdom.

A prime example of the evangelical mindset.🤷
Me, myself, and I determine what is true…

Matthew

Why are you here? To find someone who agrees with your interpretation? Go find a protestant forum. You’ll have a better chance there to find someone to agree with you. You may even get enough to start your own denomination. Then you can be their pope. You won’t be unique, lots of others have done it before you. Farewell!
 
I found this great article on the topic that I wanted to share 🙂

ancient-future.net/prots.html

God bless!
Thanks for the article Monica. It explains how: “The position stated is called inclusivism. This is the belief that while non-Catholic Christians and non-Christians may be saved, this salvation is through Jesus Christ alone, mediated through his Church. This is the current Teaching of the Catholic Church.🙂 This is not the exclusivism that argues the narrow, stringent belief that one must be within the visible confines of the Catholic Church to be saved. Leonard Feeney promoted an extreme view of the exclusivist position, and the Church eventually excommunicated him for his refusal to admit his error and submit to Church Teaching, as is made clear in the article to which you linked.
 
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Matthew_P_Muehl:
I am here to present the simple gospel of the grace of God that was first revealed to Paul for the Body of Christ. And to present the contrast between Israel [with an earthly hope and calling] and the Body of Christ [with a heavenly hope and calling]. It seems to me, when you cite Matthew 16 as being doctrinal for the Body of Christ you confuse the earthly hope of Israel with the heavenly hope of the Body of Christ. Peter and the other apostles [the 12] were apostles to the circumcision - Israel. Paul is the apostle for the Body of Christ. I am truly sorry that you don’t understand this, but I know that you are deep into religious bondage and it may be too late for you to understand the simple gospel of the Grace of God and the contrast between Israel and the Body of Christ. Paul writes: “But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost. In whom the god [small ‘g’] of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.” 2 Cor. 4:3-4. I pray that you are truly saved, if not, “believe on the LORD Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved.”
Grace and Peace,

QC
 
I am here to present the simple gospel of the grace of God that was first revealed to Paul for the Body of Christ. And to present the contrast between Israel [with an earthly hope and calling] and the Body of Christ [with a heavenly hope and calling]. It seems to me, when you cite Matthew 16 as being doctrinal for the Body of Christ you confuse the earthly hope of Israel with the heavenly hope of the Body of Christ. Peter and the other apostles [the 12] were apostles to the circumcision - Israel. Paul is the apostle for the Body of Christ. I am truly sorry that you don’t understand this, but I know that you are deep into religious bondage and it may be too late for you to understand the simple gospel of the Grace of God and the contrast between Israel and the Body of Christ. Paul writes: “But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost. In whom the god [small ‘g’] of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.” 2 Cor. 4:3-4. I pray that you are truly saved, if not, “believe on the LORD Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved.”
Grace and Peace,

Another misguided, self appointed official interpreter of scripture, protestant wanting to be pope. Luther, Calvin and Zwinglii have to be doing barrel rolls in their coffins for how many of these fine examples of the result of sola scriptura there are.
QC
 
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inkaneer:
Nope, not misguided at all. I am truly sorry that Scripture offends you. Your problem is with the writer of the Scriptures. Not with me. Every believer of The LORD Jesus Christ is an ambassador for him. Unfortunately, not many realize their ambassadorship nor have they been trained by the pastor/teacher to be an ambassador. We are to represent our LORD Jesus Christ in this sin-sick world and have been given the wonderful ministry of reconciliation. We are to rightly divide the Word of Truth in order to be approved of God. 2 Cor. 5:18-21 and 2 Tim. 2:15.
Grace and Peace,
QC
 
Why are you here? To find someone who agrees with your interpretation? Go find a protestant forum. You’ll have a better chance there to find someone to agree with you. You may even get enough to start your own denomination. Then you can be their pope. You won’t be unique, lots of others have done it before you. Farewell!
He’s here ‘fishing for souls’. He’ll keep it up until Michael Francis pulls his plug for not obeying the rules HE AGREED too when he signed on (which is deception, a very unchristian act). Then he’ll go to church tomorrow morning and tell everyone he was banned from a Catholic forum “for just posting scripture”.
Jeeze, I can recite the dialogue by now.
 
What is salvation? What is the Christian doctrine of salvation?"

Answer: Salvation is deliverance from danger or suffering. To save is to deliver or protect. The word carries the idea of victory, health, or preservation. Sometimes, the Bible uses the words saved or salvation to refer to temporal, physical deliverance, such as Paul’s deliverance from prison (Philippians 1:19).

More often, the word “salvation” concerns an eternal, spiritual deliverance. When Paul told the Philippian jailer what he must do to be saved, he was referring to the jailer’s eternal destiny (Acts 16:30-31). Jesus equated being saved with entering the kingdom of God (Matthew 19:24-25).

What are we saved from? In the Christian doctrine of salvation, we are saved from “wrath,” that is, from God’s judgment of sin (Romans 5:9; 1 Thessalonians 5:9). Our sin has separated us from God, and the consequence of sin is death (Romans 6:23). Biblical salvation refers to our deliverance from the consequence of sin and therefore involves the removal of sin.

Who does the saving? Only God can remove sin and deliver us from sin’s penalty (2 Timothy 1:9; Titus 3:5).

How does God save? In the Christian doctrine of salvation, God has rescued us through Christ (John 3:17). Specifically, it was Jesus’ death on the cross and subsequent resurrection that achieved our salvation (Romans 5:10; Ephesians 1:7). Scripture is clear that salvation is the gracious, undeserved gift of God (Ephesians 2:5, 8) and is only available through faith in Jesus Christ (Acts 4:12).

How do we receive salvation? We are saved by faith. First, we must hear the gospel—the good news of Jesus’ death and resurrection (Ephesians 1:13). Then, we must believe—fully trust the Lord Jesus (Romans 1:16). This involves repentance, a changing of mind about sin and Christ (Acts 3:19), and calling on the name of the Lord (Romans 10:9-10, 13).

A definition of the Christian doctrine of salvation would be “The deliverance, by the grace of God, from eternal punishment for sin which is granted to those who accept by faith God’s conditions of repentance and faith in the Lord Jesus.” Salvation is available in Jesus alone (John 14:6; Acts 4:12) and is dependent on God alone for provision, assurance, and security.
 
Are you confused? Can you never seem to find a path or purpose in life? Does it seem like someone has turned out the lights and you cannot find the switch? If so, Jesus is the way! Jesus proclaimed, “I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life” (John 8:12).

Do you ever feel like you are locked out of life? Have you tried so many doors, only to find that what is behind them is empty and meaningless? Are you looking for an entrance into a fulfilling life? If so, Jesus is the way! Jesus declared, “I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved. He will come in and go out, and find pasture” (John 10:9).

Do other people always let you down? Have your relationships been shallow and empty? Does it seem like everyone is trying to take advantage of you? If so, Jesus is the way! Jesus said, “I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me” (John 10:11, 14).

Do you wonder what happens after this life? Are you tired of living your life for things that only rot or rust? Do you sometimes doubt whether life has any meaning? Do you want to live after you die? If so, Jesus is the way! Jesus declared, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies; and whoever lives and believes in me will never die” (John 11:25-26).

What is the way? What is the truth? What is the life? Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me” (John 14:6).

The hunger that you feel is a spiritual hunger, and can only be filled by Jesus. Jesus is the only one who can lift the darkness. Jesus is the door to a satisfying life. Jesus is the friend and shepherd that you have been looking for. Jesus is the life—in this world and the next. Jesus is the way of salvation!

The reason you feel hungry, the reason you seem to be lost in darkness, the reason you cannot find meaning in life, is that you are separated from God. The Bible tells us that we have all sinned, and are therefore separated from God (Ecclesiastes 7:20; Romans 3:23). The void you feel in your heart is God missing from your life. We were created to have a relationship with God. Because of our sin, we are separated from that relationship. Even worse, our sin will cause us to be separated from God for all of eternity, in this life and the next (Romans 6:23; John 3:36).

How can this problem be solved? Jesus is the way! Jesus took our sin upon Himself (2 Corinthians 5:21). Jesus died in our place (Romans 5:8), taking the punishment that we deserve. Three days later, Jesus rose from the dead, proving His victory over sin and death (Romans 6:4-5). Why did He do it? Jesus answered that question Himself: “Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends” (John 15:13). Jesus died so that we could live. If we place our faith in Jesus, trusting His death as the payment for our sins, all of our sins are forgiven and washed away. We will then have our spiritual hunger satisfied. The lights will be turned on. We will have access to a fulfilling life. We will know our true best friend and good shepherd. We will know that we will have life after we die—a resurrected life in heaven for eternity with Jesus!

“For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life” (John 3:16).
 
Louemma, did you just get your mail order degree in “preachology”? Your posts were nothing more than a sermon on “How To Get Saved, 101.” I think it is safe to say that everyone participating on CAF, including agnostics, atheists, Muslims, Buddhists, etc., can all recite the Christian formula for salvation. Besides regurgitating God’s plan of salvation with which 99% of us are familiar, was there an actual point of discussion you wanted to make?
 
**THE ONES WHO FOLLOW CHRIST ARE THE ONES WHO RECEIVES TRUE SALVATION **

Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me,
let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?
or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?
For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels;
and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
Matthew 16:24, 26-27

Who are they who are able to judge the heart?(IT"S NOT MEN OR A RELIGEON)THERE IS ONLY ONE WHO CAN SEARCH THE HEART,THERE IS ONLY ONE WHO CAN JUDGE MAN AND THAT IS CERTAINLY NOT ANOTHER MAN<RELIGEON,although some who sat in high places like to say they can determine who gets salvation and who don’t,these men are only worms in the eyes of God.(There is only one who can save a man and his name is Jesus not Catholic and there is where your confusion comes in.Jesus is the way to SALVATION,not the Catholic church.
 
Louemma, did you just get your mail order degree in “preachology”? Your posts were nothing more than a sermon on “How To Get Saved, 101.” I think it is safe to say that everyone participating on CAF, including agnostics, atheists, Muslims, Buddhists, etc., can all recite the Christian formula for salvation. Besides regurgitating God’s plan of salvation with which 99% of us are familiar, was there an actual point of discussion you wanted to make?
😃
 
Louemma, thanks for the smiley face. (Or was that a sneer?) Anyway, “RELIGEON” (spelled that way twice) is what exactly? Is it your particular brand of “religion”?
 
How salutary that the *Office of Readings *(April, 13) for the feast day of St Martin, Pope and Martyr (d. 656), is from St Paul (Acts 20:17-36), in which he admonishes the elders of the Church at Ephesus: “So I solemnly declare to you this very day: if any of you should be lost, I am not responsible. For I have not held back from announcing to you the whole purpose of God. Keep watch over yourselves and over all the flock which the Holy Spirit has placed in your care. Be shepherds of the Church of God, which He made His own through the death of His own Son. I know that after I leave, fierce wolves will come among you, and they will not spare the flock. The time will come when some men from your own group will tell lies to lead the believers away after them. Watch, then, and remember that with many tears, day and night, I taught every one of you for three years.”

Invaded by some who want to lead others away from the truth, be watchful and listen to Christ’s Church for He gave Her to us to lead us to Him as The Way, the Truth and the Life.
Louemma
How do we receive salvation? We are saved by faith. First, we must hear the gospel—the good news of Jesus’ death and resurrection (Ephesians 1:13). Then, we must believe—fully trust the Lord Jesus (Romans 1:16). This involves repentance, a changing of mind about sin and Christ (Acts 3:19), and calling on the name of the Lord (Romans 10:9-10, 13).
This is woefully incomplete, as usual, because without the second half of justification we can lose salvation. So while anyone may be saved if they search for truth and follow their conscience as best they can, salvation by just faith in Christ is not from Christ or Paul.

If anyone was to be saved that way it would have been Paul! But he clearly showed the error of that: “But I chastise my body, and bring it into subjection lest perhaps, when I have preached to others, I myself should become a castaway.” (1Cor 9:27). And again: “Wherefore he who thinks that he stands, let him take heed lest he fall.” (1 Cor 10:12). Yet again, “And we exhort you not to receive the grace of God in vain.” (2 Cor 6:1).

St Paul is very clear: “I fill up in my flesh what is still lacking in regard to Christ’s afflictions, for the sake of His Body which is the Church.” (Col. 1:24). What is lacking in Christ’s suffering is precisely what only we can do – take up our cross and suffer, repent and ask forgiveness, do good works, following the dictates of our conscience. We see here that Christ’s Catholic Church (the Bride of Christ) is His Mystical Body through whom all salvation comes. Catholics also have Christ’s seven sacraments, including the Holy Eucharist, and Sacred Tradition.

So the second half is as James teaches: “Faith without works is dead.” (See Jam 2:14-26).

God’s Plan of Salvation: Christ, His Church, Her Scriptures, Her Tradition, His Magisterium.
 
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