Very confused on "No Salvation Outside the Catholic Church."

[steve_b]

Ok I know if a non-Catholic is taught Catholicism but still does not enter, you just say the person has something blocking them. But before the topic turns to books of the Bible or Holy Communion, is anyone ready yet to come out, go against the Lord’s words not to judge, and say a Catholic who knows, understands, and accepts Church teachings but then later does not, “can not be saved” unless they receive the Catholic Sacrament of Reconcilliation or Anointing of the Sick? And if not, then who exactly does the Church mean “can not be saved” if they do not remain?

To answer a question with a question, let me ask. Do you think Paul is judging when he says the following

Gal 5:
19The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Taking just 2 of the sins mentioned, these folks have been warned over and over again not to comit these sins, i.e. divide or go into schism. If they do comit these sins and remain in them, here are the consequences. Paul lowers the boom. THOSE who don’t respond to the warning, and continue to live divided from the Church and won’t return to unity, he’s crystal clear in the result. They will not inherit heaven. Ergo they go to hell. right? Isn’t that what he’s saying?

Is this, or is this not,*** judging*** a person’s soul? Isn’t this ALSO another way of saying outside the Church (which we know is the Catholic Church) there is no salvation? In this case it’s Paul who teaches it first, with the Church reiterating Paul’s warning, with specific qualifications all properly discussed in the CCC.

 

[CMatt25]

To answer a question with a question, let me ask. Do you think Paul is judging when he says the following

Gal 5:
19The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Taking just 2 of the sins mentioned, these folks have been warned over and over again not to comit these sins, i.e. divide or go into schism. If they do comit these sins and remain in them, here are the consequences. Paul lowers the boom. THOSE who don’t respond to the warning, and continue to live divided from the Church and won’t return to unity, he’s crystal clear in the result. They will not inherit heaven. Ergo they go to hell. right? Isn’t that what he’s saying?

Is this, or is this not,*** judging*** a person’s soul? Isn’t this ALSO another way of saying outside the Church (which we know is the Catholic Church) there is no salvation? In this case it’s Paul who teaches it first, with the Church reiterating Paul’s warning, with specific qualifications all properly discussed in the CCC.

So Whom shall we listen to? Not to Jesus in Matt 7? vs1 Judge not, that you may not be judged, 2For with what judgment you judge, you shall be judged: and with what measure you mete, it shall be measured to you again. 3Any why seest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye; and seest not the beam that is in thy own eye? 4Or how sayest thou to thy brother: Let me cast the mote out of thy eye; and behold a beam is in thy own eye? 5Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam in thy own eye, and then shalt thou see to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye.

I think you are saying the humans in the Church can judge though.

 

[steve_b]

So Whom shall we listen to? Not to Jesus in Matt 7? vs1 Judge not, that you may not be judged,
2For with what judgment you judge, you shall be judged: and with what measure you mete, it shall be measured to you again. 3Any why seest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye; and seest not the beam that is in thy own eye? 4Or how sayest thou to thy brother: Let me cast the mote out of thy eye; and behold a beam is in thy own eye? 5Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam in thy own eye, and then shalt thou see to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye.

I think you are saying the humans in the Church can judge though.

The word for judge in that passage is

κρίνω krinō = judge

Definition:
1) to separate, put asunder, to pick out, select, choose
2) to approve, esteem, to prefer
3) to be of opinion, deem, think, to be of opinion
4) to determine, resolve, decree
5) to judge
a) to pronounce an opinion concerning right and wrong

1) to be judged, i.e. summoned to trial that one’s case may be examined and judgment passed upon it
b) to pronounce judgment, to subject to censure
1) of those who act the part of judges or arbiters in matters of common life, or pass judgment on the deeds and words of others
​

6) to rule, govern
a) to preside over with the power of giving judicial decisions, because it was the prerogative of kings and rulers to pass judgment
7) to contend together, of warriors and combatants
a) to dispute
b) in a forensic sense

1) to go to law, have suit at law

​

Here’s the passage again (emphasisi mine)

Jesus is talking to the crowds who were being taught by their scribes.

1 "Judge not, that you be not judged. 2 For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and the measure you give will be the measure you get. 3* Why do you see the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? 4 Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye. 6 "Do not give dogs what is holy; and do not throw your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under foot and turn to attack you…*

When you keep reading, Jesus calls for individual judgements to be made regarding what to do and not to do regarding others… Therefore, it’s HOW the word is used in context, to see how Jesus is using “Judge”.

 

[Abu]

CMatt25
I think you are saying the humans in the Church can judge though.

Listen to Christ and His Church – not to Satan, his works and pomps, deceiving all who listen.

**We are commanded to judge words, writing and actions against the truth, so that we can know and show right from wrong; good from evil.

Christ and His Church’s Scriptures tell us:**

“Stop judging by appearances, but judge justly.” (Jn 7:24).

“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but underneath are ravenous wolves. By their fruits you will know them” (Mt 7:15, 16).

“Every tree that does not bear good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire. So by their fruits you will know them.” (Mt 7:19-20).

“Test everything: retain what is good.” (1Thess 5:21).

“The spiritual person, however, can judge everything but is not subject to judgement by anyone.” (1 Cor 2:15).

“I, for my part, although absent in body but present in spirit, have already, as if present, pronounced judgement on the one who has committed this deed…” (1 Cor 5:3; read 1-13).

“I am speaking as to sensible people; judge for yourselves what I am saying.” (1 Cor 10:15).

“Beloved, do not trust every spirit but test the spirits to see whether they belong to God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.” (1 Jn 4:1).

“I know your works; I know that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either cold or hot. So, because you are lukewarm, neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of my mouth.” (Rev 3:16).

We can’t judge according to truth by being mesmerised by others and giving them adulation, but according to the teaching of Christ’s Church, Her Tradition and Her Scriptures.

Jesus has commanded “Stop judging, that you may not be not judged.” (Mt 7:1; read 1-5). We are commanded not to judge others regarding their motives, intentions, and guilt before God (a judgment reserved to God).

God will judge you according to your obedience or guilt, against His truth, known through His Church.

 

[Louemma]

reread what you wrote and consider it. Jesus commanded the apostles to go forth and teach. He never gave them a book, There was no Bible. This is a point that you continue to ignore. Catholic was a word used by St. Ignatius in the year 130 AD or thereabout. It was a descriptive word meaning All of one piece - or - everywhere the same. The Church was just “the Church” that Jesus founded. For fifteen hundred years after Christ died the Church was everywhere the same. History proves this. Everywhere the same still is the descritive word for our one true church of Jesus Christ. I have traveled extensively and can attend Mass anywhere and it is the same. The language may be different, but the content is the same, exactly the same for over a billion of us on the planet right now. It is truly amazing and wonderful and I thank God for being called to His holy Church everyday.

No argument intended. Just offering some of what I know to be true for your consideration. Our Catholic faith is immersed in Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition. I have attended other denomination’s services with in-laws from time to time and always feel a sense of loss. There are just bible verses, songs and preaching by a man about his interpretation of what the verses mean.

The Sacred Tradition is the Mass itself. It’s been celebrated in the same way since the beginning. If you have never attended, I highly recommend that you do so to get a better perspective about it. You can look up lots of documents written by the faithful going all the way back to the days of the Apostles, too which describe in detail the exact elements of the Mass that we still celebrate today. That is all part of Sacred Tradition.

Thank You Sherry.
I understand what you are saying from a Catholics perceptive.
Where I’m going with this is not really to say the Catholics don’t have salvation.In fact I have not made that statement.Of course I have study the early church history and there was a reason there was a group that stood up when the Catholic church slowly added things into the church that was not there in the beginning.This group were called the protesters because they protested against the things that evolved into the church.Later this group was called the Protestants and we still protest the things that are going on in the original church and salvation with works is one of them.
Now there is only one “Bride” and the Bride will be made up with those who are true to the Lord Jesus Christ.
Also we know that Peter and Paul had struck a disagreement when Peter started to consider that the Christian needed to be under the Jewish Law.Now we all know the Jewish Law is where one earns favor with God through certain actions such as refraining from eating certain things because that was what PETER thought should be done.Paul pointed out that this was to not be and then of course God revealed this also to Peter in a vision.
Acts 10:9 About noon the following day as they were on their journey and approaching the city, Peter went up on the roof to pray. 10 He became hungry and wanted something to eat, and while the meal was being prepared, he fell into a trance. 11 He saw heaven opened and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners. 12 It contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles of the earth and birds of the air. 13 Then a voice told him, “Get up, Peter. Kill and eat.”
14 “Surely not, Lord!” Peter replied. “I have never eaten anything impure or unclean.”
15 The voice spoke to him a second time, “Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.”

You people have been trying to do this very thing ever since,only now it is in the nature of saying that unless one is a member of a Catholic church you have no salvation.This simply is not true.The True church of Christ(The Bride) will be made up with people whom God has given eternal life to.
I am sure that Mass is a beautiful ceremony and the other things you do but those things do not guarantee salvation,so by this I am saying that those things are man made traditions and have nothing to do with true salvation.

 

[anthony022071]

I am here to present the simple gospel of the grace of God that was first revealed to Paul for the Body of Christ. And to present the contrast between Israel [with an earthly hope and calling] and the Body of Christ [with a heavenly hope and calling]. It seems to me, when you cite Matthew 16 as being doctrinal for the Body of Christ you confuse the earthly hope of Israel with the heavenly hope of the Body of Christ. Peter and the other apostles [the 12] were apostles to the circumcision - Israel. Paul is the apostle for the Body of Christ. I am truly sorry that you don’t understand this, but I know that you are deep into religious bondage and it may be too late for you to understand the simple gospel of the Grace of God and the contrast between Israel and the Body of Christ. Paul writes: “But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost. In whom the god [small ‘g’] of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.” 2 Cor. 4:3-4. I pray that you are truly saved, if not, “believe on the LORD Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved.”
Grace and Peace,

QC

Paul belonged to the same Church or Body of Christ that Peter and the other apostles belonged to,and he did not preach different doctrines. Grace does not just mean divine favor,it also means divine assitence for persevering in holiness. That means God helps us to obey his commandments – to do the good works that lead to salvation. That is the purpose of grace. It is not a judicial decision or a free pass to eternal salvation. Whatever God himself gives,he gives personally. Grace is the Holy Spirit that comes into us and purifies us and strengthens us to do God’s will.

 

[anthony022071]

Grace does not just mean divine favor,it also means divine assistance for persevering in holiness. That means God helps us to obey his commandments – the good works that lead to salvation. That is the purpose of grace. It is not a judicial decision or a free pass to eternal salvation. Whatever God himself gives,he gives personally. Grace is the Holy Spirit that comes into us and purifies us and strengthens us to do God’s will.

 

[anthony022071]

You people have been trying to do this very thing ever since,only now it is in the nature of saying that unless one is a member of a Catholic church you have no salvation.This simply is not true.The True church of Christ(The Bride) will be made up with people whom God has given eternal life to.
I am sure that Mass is a beautiful ceremony and the other things you do but those things do not guarantee salvation,so by this I am saying that those things are man made traditions and have nothing to do with true salvation.

The people whom God will give eternal life to will,for that reason,belong to his Church in heaven. It must be remembered that the Catholic (whole,universal) Church does not exist only on earth,but in heaven. It is the communion of saints. Whoever will attain eternal salvation will be a member of the Church in heaven,because obviously there is no eternal salvation outside of heaven.

 

[Abu]

Louemma
You people have been trying to do this very thing ever since, only now it is in the nature of saying that unless one is a member of a Catholic church you have no salvation

If after all you have been offered here you still grovel in the canard, and accuse Christ’s Church (“you people”!) of teaching, that there is no salvation “unless one is a member”, you ought to hang your head in shame.

Again: without Christ’s Church there is no salvation – all salvation comes through Her even the opportunity for those pagans who do not know Her.

 

[Tomb54]

Thank You Sherry.
I understand what you are saying from a Catholics perceptive.
Where I’m going with this is not really to say the Catholics don’t have salvation.In fact I have not made that statement.Of course I have study the early church history and there was a reason there was a group that stood up when the Catholic church slowly added things into the church that was not there in the beginning.This group were called the protesters because they protested against the things that evolved into the church.Later this group was called the Protestants and we still protest the things that are going on in the original church and salvation with works is one of them. Question if this in fact true then you should know the name of this group and what they believed. Also if this group was protesting what the Catholic Church added then what is it their were trying to preserve and do all Protest church today have this same belief? As far as I know each group that protested against the church from the beginning all believed different things as time went on (ex one group did not think Jesus was divine (Is this what you believe as a protester?) ex 2 another group believed that Jesus only pocessed a human body but he himself was not human but only spiritual (is this what you believe?) These are some of those protesters of the early church. One more thing what church thinks salvation comes from works? I can tell you it is not Catholic if it does.

Now there is only one “Bride” and the Bride will be made up with those who are true to the Lord Jesus Christ. Who are these people if they are not those in His church which is not under the bushel basket but sit on the hill as a light for all the see and is in every corner of the earth. Before you tell Catholic what they believe you should actuallly study what the church actually teaches and study the early church fathers a lot more
Also we know that Peter and Paul had struck a disagreement when Peter started to consider that the Christian needed to be under the Jewish Law.Now we all know the Jewish Law is where one earns favor with God through certain actions such as refraining from eating certain things because that was what PETER thought should be done.Paul pointed out that this was to not be and then of course God revealed this also to Peter in a vision.
Acts 10:9 About noon the following day as they were on their journey and approaching the city, Peter went up on the roof to pray. 10 He became hungry and wanted something to eat, and while the meal was being prepared, he fell into a trance. 11 He saw heaven opened and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners. 12 It contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles of the earth and birds of the air. 13 Then a voice told him, “Get up, Peter. Kill and eat.”
14 “Surely not, Lord!” Peter replied. “I have never eaten anything impure or unclean.”
15 The voice spoke to him a second time, “Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.”

You people have been trying to do this very thing ever since,only now it is in the nature of saying that unless one is a member of a Catholic church you have no salvation.This simply is not true.The True church of Christ(The Bride) will be made up with people whom God has given eternal life to. who are these people because Paul showed they were a community united together by their bishops and the teachings of the Apostles in the Church of Christ which the early church fathers called Catholic. One more piece do you believe in the Bible? If you do then you believe in the book the Catholic Church gave to the world…
I am sure that Mass is a beautiful ceremony and the other things you do but those things do not guarantee salvation,so by this I am saying that those things are man made traditions and have nothing to do with true salvation.

 

[Louemma]

The people whom God will give eternal life to will,for that reason,belong to his Church in heaven. It must be remembered that the Catholic (whole,universal) Church does not exist only on earth,but in heaven. It is the communion of saints. Whoever will attain eternal salvation will be a member of the Church in heaven,because obviously there is no eternal salvation outside of heaven.

Yes all will be of one accord in Heaven!

 

[Bengoshi]

This is the manmade excuse for nearly all of the other Christian sects, and the excuse for many who do not want to follow Christ’s teaching on morals (how to act) or on faith (what to believe).

Since Her Sacred Scriptures (which didn’t fall from heaven) show plainly that Jesus claimed to be God, and that He established His Church with primacy and infallibility to Peter and his successors in the Scriptures which She gave us, it is remarkably unreasonable to follow those who revolted, and persisted in making up their own formulae, whether based on changed morals, changed faith, or a combination. While recognizing this, Catholics continue to offer the fullness of truth which Christ has entrusted to His Church to those who have the same problem today. The many books of testimony by many to coming home, mentioned on this DB, and the renowned witness of other converts such as Scott Hahn are available to all.

Until some years after the printing press was invented, Bibles were scarce and expensive because copied by hand - so often there could be only one book in a town but, nearly everyone who could read could read Latin. Catholic monks faithfully copied the texts, and the production and use of translations, corrupted to support false teachings, was condemned. Johann Gutenberg, a Catholic, produced the first printed Bible, with the Church’s approval, in 1455. Luther was not born until 1483. There were 18 German editions of the whole Bible before the Catholic monk Luther posted his 95 theses in 1517, and there were German, Flemish, Italian, Spanish, and Polish editions before Luther left the Church. From then on bits and pieces were thrown out, and pet beliefs fostered to proliferate into the tens of thousands of sects today.

Revolting from Christ’s Church, the tens of thousands of today’s sects started as:
Lutherans Martin Luther 1517 Germany
Anglicans King Henry VIII 1534 England
Calvinism John Calvin 1536 Switzerland
Presbyterians John Knox 1560 Scotland
Baptists John Smyth 1605 Holland
Evangelicals 1730’s John Wesley England
Latter-day Saints Joseph Smith 1830 NY, USA
Seventh Day Adventists Ellen White 1860 NH, USA
Pentecostals Charles Parham 1900 CA, USA

John Wesley started the Methodist movement, not Evangelicalism.

Oh, and please do not lump Protestants/Evangelicals with cults such as the Mormons or Adventists (Adventists are almost alright, except for the fact that apart from being legalistic, they also teach that Hell is not eternal and that our souls go into soulsleep after death until the time of Christ’s return). We do not consider them as brethren or a Christian denomination.

You mentioned morals. Why, what’s wrong with our morals? We also obey the teachings of the Bible on morality. Of course, there are some, same case with the RCC, who reject biblical morality such as homosexual marriages, pre-marital sex and cohabitation, abortion, etc. But again, there are also people like that in the RCC. This is not a perfect world, it is fallen. However, doctrinally, we observe biblical morality as taught by Jesus.

 

[Bengoshi]

Do they? How can you say protestants eat and drink Jesus’ body and blood when none of the protestant denominations claims that their communion is the actual body and blood of Jesus? They all claim their communion is only a symbol of and not the Real Presence.
And Yes Jesus did speak in “parables, allegories, and the like” but He never did so when He said the words, “Truely, truely, I say unto you…” as he does in John 6:53-58:

"So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you; 54 he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. 56 He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him. 57 As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so he who eats me will live because of me. 58 This is the bread which came down from heaven, not such as the fathers ate and died; he who eats this bread will live for ever.”

That is no allegory, my friend. Jesus was being very serious. Jesus may have spoken in parables but He also explained those parables to His disciples. But was He speaking a parable? Notice in verse 60 it says:

"Many of his disciples, when they heard it, said, “This is a hard saying; who can listen to it?”

and verse 61says:

61 But Jesus, knowing in himself that his disciples murmured at it, said to them, “Do you take offense at this? 62 Then what if you were to see the Son of man ascending where he was before? 63 It is the spirit that gives life, the flesh is of no avail; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.” The only explanation Jesus gives is that his words were spirit. That doesn’t mean hypothetical or allegorical. It means spiritually. You see the Jews understood about the manna from heaven that their fathers ate in the dessert. It was real food so they understood Jesus to be speaking about **material **food. But Jesus says he is not speaking of material food. He is speaking of spiritual food. That is why the only explanation He offers to His disciples is that His words are spirit.

And one more thing the charge against protestantism is not that you are doctrinally poor. The charge is you doctrines are wrong. Big difference.

Exactly! Jesus’ words were spiritual and not literal. If He really did mean it literally, then the apostles should have bit Him and take a chunk out of Him! I mean, he was still alive when he said that. He was still there with them in the flesh. So it’s obvious that He did not mean it literally.

As to being doctrinally poor, there was an earlier post that said so. Maybe you could check it out.

 

[CMatt25]

We are commanded not to judge others regarding their motives, intentions, and guilt before God (a judgment reserved to God).

But yet it appears humans are with the “can not be saved” words. Thanks I think I have my answer as to whether human beings in the Church judge one’s salvation. Even though as you said it is supposed to be reserved to God. Peace.

 

[Abu]

CMatt25
But yet it appears humans are with the “can not be saved” words.

How do we communicate if not by words? The dogma comes from Christ, and His Church teaches infallibly by Christ’s authority. When you choose to assent in practice to Christ and His Church you will be welcomed by Him and by His followers. God proposes and man can choose to dispose, or to assent. Christ spoke His truths, the Holy Spirit protects them from error, and His Church truthfully proposes His teaching.

God bless

 

[Abu]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evangelicalism#18th_century
Evangelicalism is a Protestant Christian theological stream which began in Great Britain in the 1730s.[1]
[1]Bebbington, D. W. (2008). Evangelicals in Modern Britain: A History from the 1730s to the 1980s, London: Unwin, 1.
“In the United States, Jonathan Edwards and George Whitefield were considered early leaders in evangelicalism.[4] John Wesley had a similar role in England.”

The fact is that it is one of the tens of thousands of self-started communities which chose a selfist path to religion – “what I decide will prevail.”

Bengoshi
We also obey the teachings of the Bible on morality.

“We”? Don’t you know history? Again a selfist choice – “what I decide.” Unfortunately, the fact is that the cleavage was an excuse for many who do not want to follow Christ’s teaching on morals (how to act) or on faith (what to believe). The import of this is lost on some here as they seem quite oblivious to history – that Luther the Catholic monk who posted his 95 theses in 1517, began the cleavage of Christendom, established this fact.

Luther having rejected Christ’s Church rejected seven books of the inspired Word of God – selfism – thereby thwarting Protestants of the belief and practice that flows from the fact of Purgatory. It is Luther who brought in the “pick and choose” heresy (not “is it true?”, but “what does it mean for me?”), including trashing the Epistle of James (“Faith without works is dead”) – hence the heresy has spread far and wide through the unthinking. Luther did away with priesthood, sacrifice and ritual – revolt against Christ. It is Luther who rejected the institution by Christ of seven sacraments, and the Holy Eucharist.

Luther’s ideas on morality may be a closed book to many: “Faith cancels all sin…No other sin exists in the world save unbelief…If you sin, sin firmly and the more firmly you believe…The Apostles themselves were sinners, yea, regular scoundrels.” Again: “ I who should be then prey to the spirit alone am eating my heart out through the flesh, through lust, laziness, idleness and somnolence…I am here idle and drunk….What is needed to live in continence is not in me.”

In Luther’s table-talk, he states that Christ committed adultery three times, first with the woman at the well, secondly with Mary Magdalene, and thirdly with the woman taken in adultery “whom he let off so lightly. Thus even Christ who was so holy had to commit adultery before he died.”
[References in Arnold Lunn, *Is The Catholic Church Anti-Social?, Burns Oates & Washbourne 1946, p 140-141].

 

[Onevoice]

I kinda resent you calling me a Protestant as if my people ever protested from something. My people were being fed to the lions by the RC before Martin Luther, Menos, etc ever came about. As a matter of fact we were fed to the lions so much that they became tired of human flesh and wouldn’t eat us. No sir we have never bowed the knee to any Papacy nor any man for that matter.

Actually I believe that most of your Protestants will return to the Catholic church and really never departed too far from it. That one day they will completely come back under the umbrella of the RC’s reign. Just as mentioned in II Peter 2:22. “…The dog is turned to his own vomit again…”

 

[Onevoice]

Then please tell us all what church did Christ found here on earth?

Matthew

That’s easy… His church. Jesus instituted the church, Catholics instituted denominations.

 

[fxcc]

Up in the Himalayan ranges (the planet’s youngest and tallest mountain range, containing Mt Everest) ice forms round the year and subsequently melts in countless little streams of pure fresh water. “Streams of living water” one might say. These little streams and rivulets flow downhill and converge to form some of the world’s major rivers: Ganges, Indus, Brahmaputra, Yangtze, Mekong, Red River, Xunjiang, Chao Phraya, Irrawaddy, and Yellow River. Their combined drainage basin is home to some 3 billion people - almost half of earth’s population - in countries like Afghanistan, Bangladesh, Bhutan, China, India, Nepal, Burma, Cambodia, Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Thailand, Laos, Vietnam, Malaysia and Pakistan.
As we know, rivers have tributaries, which divide and split many times over until they trickle down to an end or empty into a lake someplace. Now it’s quite natural that the further downstream one travels, the less pure the river water is (compared to the water at source, high up in the mountains). Indeed, at some point, way downstream, the water, far from being “life giving”, might well have become so toxic that it constitutes a serious threat to one’s well being!
Therefore, one could well imagine that the designer of such a mighty scheme, in His eternal wisdom would decree that the hand of toxicity (which would be like the gates of Hades perhaps?) would never prevail against His ordained source of life giving water. Indeed He might well choose to situate it “high on a hill” and decree that from this exalted and visible location the water of life would flow to all nations. Why, He might even conceivably decide to be permanently present (really present) at the source, given its critical value to His children! For if the water at very source itself should ever lose its purity (akin to salt losing its savor?) what machinations of mere mortals would serve to purify it (or flavor the salt again)? With the source itself corrupted, could the water (or salt) really be “reformed” again?
Now, of the 3 billion people, many may choose to drink from rivers downstream, never having had the opportunity (or felt the need) to travel to the very fount of the pure water. Others might receive an invitation to come, to “taste and see”, (discover the difference), and still refuse, either unconvinced of the merits of the effort involved or simply content with the drink downstream, poisoned though it might have become by many toxins. Will they live? Mostly. That’s because even the less than pure water they drink has life sustaining ability (albeit reduced) from the source upstream. Hopefully (Lord have mercy) the toxins will not prove to be overwhelmingly lethal.
Does any particular river which one drinks from originate in the lowlands? No. Is there a single river that has its origin in the plains? No. Are all the rivers still in communion with the pristine source up in the mountains? Yes, even if distantly or tenuously. Can the quality of the water at the source of the river be trusted more than that in the rivulets downstream? Of course! Will it remain pure and pristine to the end of the age? If the Master Designer guarantees it, you bet!
So, at the end of the day it boils down to whether one really desires to have the fullness of life, or live a half hydrated life or, heaven forbid, “have no life” at all. Each one then must decide how high up the river one would like to be at, and what level of investigation/effort one is prepared to make to get to it. A move might involve loss of so many things that one has grown accustomed to! One way or another, all can hopefully agree, that without the source set high on the hill, there really would be no water and therefore no life for anyone whatsoever!

 

[CMatt25]

How do we communicate if not by words? The dogma comes from Christ, and His Church teaches infallibly by Christ’s authority. When you choose to assent in practice to Christ and His Church you will be welcomed by Him and by His followers. God proposes and man can choose to dispose, or to assent. Christ spoke His truths, the Holy Spirit protects them from error, and His Church truthfully proposes His teaching.

God bless

I am welcomed by many of His followers. God bless you too Abu!