Vice Presidential Debate

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Biden reports the worn out: “It’s wrong for me but I wouldn’t dream of stopping anybody else.”

Ryan, sadly, adopted, for the first time: “except in cases of rape or incest.”

Even my atheist, socialist, abortion loving, sister-in-law saw the logical disparity in that goofy position.

If it’s a human being, and it is, the circumstances involved in its existance are completely irrelevant to the morality of the abortion.
 
Biden reports the worn out: “It’s wrong for me but I wouldn’t dream of stopping anybody else.”

Ryan, sadly, adopted, for the first time: “except in cases of rape or incest.”

Even my atheist, socialist, abortion loving, sister-in-law saw the logical disparity in that goofy position.

If it’s a human being, and it is, the circumstances involved in its existance are completely irrelevant to the morality of the abortion.
We have to accept the facts here–we are NOT the majority, and we are in grave danger of losing this election. Most of the polls are 50/50 at the moment, and every single vote counts.

Pro-life people have to accept that if we do not win this election, we will continue to have the most pro-abortion Administration ever ruling the country.

We have to accept that any candidate who is totally pro-life, as many of us are, will NOT win. To vote for such a candidate is to throw a desperately-need vote away, or more pointedly, give that vote to Pres. Obama and his cronies.

According to Right to Life, one of the most active pro-life lobby organizations, we must be willing to take whatever we can get, and we must STOP demanding “all or nothing.” That makes no sense. It’s better to save SOME babies than condemn ALL to the dangers of abortion.

Obviously we would all love to have a candidate who says, “ALL abortion is wrong, period, and we will do our best to see this ghastly practice outlawed.”

But that kind of pronouncement would in all likelihood lose the election. And then we would continue to have a President and VP who have made it clear that they support abortion at all stages for all women under all circumstances. Indeed, Pres. Obama voted against the Born Alive Act here in Illinois–the sole State Senator to do so.

Right To Life has stated over and over again that we have to be wise here, and use some strategy. First, if Sen. Ryan had denounced all abortions as criminal, many people would see this as extremist because they know someone who has had an abortion, or perhaps they themselves have had an abortion, and they KNOW that it was not done with malice, but only under extreme desperation.

Criminalizing abortion is a very, very tricky thing. When you are in a debate/discussion with anyone pro-choice, this is one of the issues that they will bring up–“What would you do to a woman who has an abortion? Would you jail her?”

And I have to admit, I don’t know the answer to this question, other than to say that the abortionist should be jailed, and the woman considered the victim, along with her aborted child. But many many women would resent this. Paul Ryan had to be careful not to create a groundswell of pro-choice women who would turn up by the millions at the polls and re-elect Pres. Obama. It could happen–every women’s magazine and program is pro-choice, and assumes that all sensible women are pro-choice, and they would quickly mobilize all their many subscribers, and that would be all she wrote.

Second, many moderates, who votes we desperately need, will vote against what they see as extremism. We NEED those votes!

I think that sometimes, those of us who are pro-life keep thinking that a miracle from God will happen, and the election will be swept by totally pro-life third party candidates, and the country will be “good” again. It’s not going to happen. Assuming that Gov. Romney continues to be strong in the next two debates, the Republicans have a slim chance-very very slim–of taking this Presidential election. But only a slim chance–all it would take is one more gaffe from Mitt Romney, and all is lost.
 
If Biden could have controlled his overt mood swings , especially exaggerated disgust, he may have been seen as the seasoned “winner”. Unfortunately for him he showed more teeth than a dental chart at the wrong times and for all the wrong reasons.

Ryan was solid but often less passionate. His constant reaching for water made him appear dry-mouthed with nervousness. He improved as the debate went on showing at least a couple of times he can give pointed facts with stinging rebukes but not enough…
 
We’ve been doing it for over 10 years. Where are all of the jobs? Where are the higher wages? They’re nowhere because the trickle-down economics scheme doesn’t work. Even Reagan figured that out which is why he agreed raise taxes. Of course, back then the Republicans called tax increases “revenue enhancers” instead.
Seriously? What economist suggests raising effective rates in the middle of a recession? This isn’t like Reagan’s or Clinton’s recovery economy.

Simple math tell you the silly “Buffett Rule” (class envy for the Bourgeois) raising $48 Billion over 10 years isn’t going to make a difference when there are $6 TRILLION in scheduled spending increases (not new spending, mind you) over the same period.
 
I can’t imagine how anyone who actually watched this debate could view Biden as the winner. Both of them are far from favorites of mine, but Ryan clearly came across as someone who knows how to project himself in public. Biden was embarrassing.
 
Joe Biden said
The next president will get one or two Supreme Court nominees. That’s how close Roe v Wade is
Hope people understand the importance of the election and abortion and how your vote could determine the future balance of the supreme court and abortion legality
 
And I thought Biden was trying to sell a Shamwow™. I particularly liked the way he continually referred to Benjamin Netanyahu as “Bibi” as if they were spending weekends together in Haifa, rather than snubbing him to go on The View.
THAT was DISGUSTING. Particularly given the way the Obama administration has treated Netanyahu, Obama caught off mic saying what a pain he was, etc. The familiar and the nickname for the Prime Minister of Israel? Someone who fought and whose brother died for Israel…Bibi? Sounded like he was speaking about a poodle.

Lisa
 
THAT was DISGUSTING. Particularly given the way the Obama administration has treated Netanyahu, Obama caught off mic saying what a pain he was, etc. The familiar and the nickname for the Prime Minister of Israel? Someone who fought and whose brother died for Israel…Bibi? Sounded like he was speaking about a poodle.
That’s Biden’s charm and most redeeming quality - he eventually lets the truth slip out.
 
CaptFun: I think you are indeed misinterpreting my position. I’m not building the Democrats up to be any less capable of political nonsense than the Republicans (I am not registered for either party).

However, I have seen very little substance from the Romney campaign. All I hear is the following:

-We’re going to cut taxes across the board
-We’re going to increase military spending
-We’re not going to close major loopholes

How are we going to do all this AND cut the trillion dollar deficit? Through unnamed “bipartisan” solutions.

I am not singing Obama’s praises. I do however believe that the Romney campaign is criticising the administration on severaly things for which Romney himself has no credible or different solution.

All that said, I’m definitely not voting for Obama. I’d rather not vote for Romney either… we’ll see how it goes.
Regarding the lack of “specifics” at this point they can only talk concepts because the Executive branch does not write legislation. They can set the tone, bring up ideas and send in the appropriate members of Congress to start the ball rolling. But if you think RR could say "We’re going to limit mortgage interest to $X or beneficial treatment of capital gains to people making under $Y you are mistaken. They can’t be specific, down to the last jot and tittle not only because of the three branches of government but in effect they would have to “do the math” to see what works.

The big point of the RR plan although admittedly Ryan didn’t (or was unable to get a word in) make the case for economic growth being a huge driver of increase revenues, is that the stagnant economy, restrictions on energy production, and INCENTIVES for people to get on and stay on government assistance (99 weeks anyone? Increased food stamps and commercials to market them? Cutting back work requirements?) mean lower tax revenues.

If you have listened to Romney in the past he has laid out the basic plan for reducing taxes, growth, and making the SHARE paid by the wealthy remain static. This is not rocket science but difficult for idealogues to understand. If you are married to big government solutions it is hard to let go and let the economy loose.

I wish that RR would take up the Rubio statement: “We don’t need more taxes we need more taxpayers” IOW getting more people back to work, growing the economy, reducing energy prices through domestic production, will be a far better way to reduce the deficit than printing money.

As to overall impression, I wonder if you found this to be the truth; WOMEN HATED JOE. I went to a board meeting during the last 1/2 hour of the debate. I think our Board is probably trends Democrat. But even the Dem women thought Biden was rude, condescending, and simply tried to yell louder instead of making credible arguments. I saw on some of the morning shows the same thing. While some of the Dem men in the group were rah rahing Joe and say he was “taking it to Ryan” the women said YUK what a jerk!

Lisa
 
As to overall impression, I wonder if you found this to be the truth; WOMEN HATED JOE. I went to a board meeting during the last 1/2 hour of the debate. I think our Board is probably trends Democrat. But even the Dem women thought Biden was rude, condescending, and simply tried to yell louder instead of making credible arguments. I saw on some of the morning shows the same thing. While some of the Dem men in the group were rah rahing Joe and say he was “taking it to Ryan” the women said YUK what a jerk!

Lisa
This was mentioned immediately after the debate also as to condencending, rude etc. Pretty much his personality though, no?
 
Ok, then. I hear the strawmen all the time so that I assumed you were doing the same. If the goal is ending ***legal ***abortion, it starts with overturning Roe V Wade so that the states can pass restrictive laws, wouldn’t you agree? And some states would make exceptions that we Catholics don’t agree with, but its a start. Should we not support parental notification laws because they don’t “end abortion”? I don’t think so. We need to do what we can. Romney would help us get there.

Ishii
Ishii what do you think about the “Personhood” legislation that Ryan supported? On its face it looked like a way of kicking this back to the states. I think at that point case law would develop if a state passed a restrictive law that seemed in opposition to Roe, decided at the lower courts and particularly if there were a dispute between two circuits, THEN could be brought before SCOTUS.

The problem with overturning Roe is that it has to come up through the courts right? If abortion is the law of the land, all 50 states (or 57 if you’re Obama :D) then how would a case be considered by SCOTUS?

I’m wondering if Ryan and his co-sponsors were onto something.

That being said I agree we need to keep moving forward. The trend is against abortion despite the hideous cheerleading at the Dem convention. Education is the key. I thought Ryan’s comment about his daughter’s ultrasound was right on the money. Those who promote abortion don’t see personhood in the unborn. Their hearts and minds could be changed…I pray

Lisa
 
Heard most of it on the radio, Biden got points from interrupting, they said he interrupted 72 times…I heard if one heard it on the radio, they might think Biden got the better but if one watched it on tv, Ryan may have gotten better.

Britt Hume really, really, really came down on Biden right after for what he called being rude and obnoxious.

Too, I want to say, I respect every Catholic’s opinion and view on the faith but I can not go along with Biden’s position of saying “I don’t want to impose my views on others” per talking about abortion.

Ryan had a consistent showing, think he did well. The important thing was probably avoiding any gaffe. It looks like a lot of people are being critical of Biden being Biden.
 
Too, I want to say, I respect every Catholic’s opinion and view on the faith but I can not go along with Biden’s position of saying “I don’t want to impose my views on others” per talking about abortion…
If only the North had that attitude about slavery we could have avoided the Civil War. Don’t like slavery - don’t own one.
 
This was mentioned immediately after the debate also as to condencending, rude etc. Pretty much his personality though, no?
You’re right. He is usually bombastic, red faced and shaking his fists. I think that might appeal to a crowd of longshoremen but is so “old school” that I can’t imagine how it would appeal to the general public, particularly to the undecideds or independents.

I am sure he was charged with being the attack dog as Obama was “too polite” 😃 and was steamrolled by Romney. But wow he was just obnoxious and when I see the alphabet soup channels coming up with the same conclusion, I don’t think it’s just me being a partisan hack.

LOVED the comment about light testing Joe’s teeth…best to wear sunglasses. He just looked so smarmy, almost like a cartoon or charictature. Can’t wait to see what Michael Ramerez does with this image!

FWIW in the past it has often been the demeanor that makes a difference. Even back to Kennedy/Nixon those who listened had a completely different impression than those who watched. Al Gore’s sighs and eyerolling was another example where it wasn’t so much what he said but how he appeared that was a turn off.

Lisa
 
There resides the issue I thought Biden was so-so with. Pretty hard to claim practicing Catholic with a straight face while cooperating with evil.

Course his response was “I can’t impose my religious values on non Christians”. Actually its the opposite way around, They are imposing lacking moral ethical values on Christians with a foolish agenda they “insist” on upholding, called a womans right to commit murder. :rolleyes:

No surprize, if you accept evil, you cooperate with it, and if you cooperate with it you promote it. Appears to me thats what we have.
 
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