Viral video of 'irreverent' distribution of Eucharist during papal mass in Manila, Philippines

[agnes_therese]

It’s so very easy to criticize when we weren’t there, and don’t know all the circumstances.

 

[SWolf]

But if that happened, what if they wanted to take communion and were saddened by the fact that they didn’t receive communion?

When I said that most Filipinos know the protocol well they know why they should take in the Eucharist and how sacred the Body of Christ is.

I have to make an excuse with this one, since I’ve found myself rethinking on some things. Most of the people in the Papal Mass were poor and don’t have enough education, so it’s not really their fault for being ignorant about the thing, and the way they see it, it’s a gesture of kindness and community.

Is Redemptionis Sacramentum required for Catholic schools and parishes to be taught? From what I remember that didn’t appear in any of my Christian Living lessons. And I’m Catholic school born and bred, like most Filipinos are.

If you are arguing for better Catechesis, that applies to the entire Church, and I wholeheartedly agree.

Like I said earlier, this incident showed more poor leadership and judgement by the Shepherds than a ‘desecration’ done by your average Filipino.

 

[robwar]

As a Filipino I have to speak out. I say we do things differently here. My Theology professor was right. This, shall I call, “stinginess” with regards to liturgy is a mainly Western thing.

And if a crowd of seven million people - faithful, reverent people I might add - would want to receive Jesus then what’s stopping them? Some of the posts in this thread who feel “abhorrent” about this sound like something out of a Pharisee. Remember when Zacchaeus wanted to listen and reach out to Jesus but can’t because it was too crowded? They are like the people in the Mass.

And besides, since that these people are passing the Eucharist to other people means that there is a sense of reverence that people would want to share that reverence to others and would want others to receive the grace of God. Isn’t that what the Church is supposed to be? The Body of Christ - a communion of people working and helping each other so everyone in it can receive the grace of Christ? I say the papal mass is a great metaphor for what the Church is supposed to be.

I trust that they are aware that they are holding the Body of Christ. Most Filipinos go to Mass, unlike in the West. They know the protocol well. Maybe the people who see this as “abhorrent” are envious of our strong faith as a people?

thank-you for your point of view and experience. It is totally stupid to nit pick over a 7 million person Mass. Give me a brake. The Catholic faith in your country is very strong and devout and puts the cafeteria type Catholics in the west especially the US to shame. I’ve worked with a number of Filipinos and all of them have had a very strong Catholic Christian faith. Lets give it a rest.

 

[robwar]

It’s so very easy to criticize when we weren’t there, and don’t know all the circumstances.

:clapping:

 

[JoyIsLikeRain]

As a Filipino I have to speak out. I say we do things differently here. My Theology professor was right. This, shall I call, “stinginess” with regards to liturgy is a mainly Western thing.

And if a crowd of seven million people - faithful, reverent people I might add - would want to receive Jesus then what’s stopping them? Some of the posts in this thread who feel “abhorrent” about this sound like something out of a Pharisee. Remember when Zacchaeus wanted to listen and reach out to Jesus but can’t because it was too crowded? They are like the people in the Mass.

And besides, since that these people are passing the Eucharist to other people means that there is a sense of reverence that people would want to share that reverence to others and would want others to receive the grace of God. Isn’t that what the Church is supposed to be? The Body of Christ - a communion of people working and helping each other so everyone in it can receive the grace of Christ? I say the papal mass is a great metaphor for what the Church is supposed to be.

I trust that they are aware that they are holding the Body of Christ. Most Filipinos go to Mass, unlike in the West. They know the protocol well. Maybe the people who see this as “abhorrent” are envious of our strong faith as a people?

Indeed, read my previous posts and I am right there with you.

Don’t let a bunch of ultra-traditional “liturgy police” on the other side of the world get you down.

I have been at Papal Masses in Rome and they exactly like this. I wouldn’t be surprised if the same people would object to those as well - too many people…too much talking…not enough bowing…not enough Latin…no ministers of communion roaming the streets.

Irrelevant. As stated before, one can be disrespectful without meaning to be. I’m more angry at their shepherds that allowed this.

---

Oh no; it’s quite relevant. If it was so “irrelevant,” then you wouldn’t be so “angry” about the whole event. If you were truly that angry and offended, then write to the bishops in Manila.

 

[Sarcelle]

JoyIsLikeRain;12679481:

Passing Jesus around like a beach ball in my mind constitutes abuse.

Sheesh. Nobody is saying anything of the sort.

Look at some of the rules regarding the ark of the covenant. God killed people who touched the Ark. And that didn’t come close to passing Jesus like candy.

Irrelevant. As stated before, one can be disrespectful without meaning to be. I’m more angry at their shepherds that allowed this.

No one is saying it is shameful for Filipinos to receive communion. HOW it was received was shameful.

What would you have done if you were there?

 

[SWolf]

Oh no; it’s quite relevant. If it was so “irrelevant,” then you wouldn’t be so “angry” about the whole event.

And how did you reach this conclusion?

 

[ProVobis]

Is Redemptionis Sacramentum required for Catholic schools and parishes to be taught?

Apparently not.

 

[ProVobis]

thank-you for your point of view and experience. It is totally stupid to nit pick over a 7 million person Mass. Give me a brake. The Catholic faith in your country is very strong and devout and puts the cafeteria type Catholics in the west especially the US to shame.

You can’t really tell that much from Papal Masses alone. They will always draw crowds. For the low percentage of Catholics in the U.S. and FWIW, Pope John Paul II drew quite a crowd in Chicago back in 1979.

google.com/search?q=chicago+grant+park+mass+pope+1980&client=firefox-a&hs=dW9&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&channel=fflb&tbm=isch&imgil=8hr6AgMG1YffmM%253A%253Bi6jq25pT2GMiQM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fsports.mearsonlineauctions.com%25252F1979_pope_john_paul_ii_grant_park_mass_17__x_12_1_-lot42367.aspx&source=iu&pf=m&fir=8hr6AgMG1YffmM%253A%252Ci6jq25pT2GMiQM%252C_&usg=__uaZQygylsJhjkW726lIvSoL3ocs%3D&biw=1174&bih=628&ved=0CCkQyjc&ei=kiu_VMSIN4vnsAT5mIHYDg#imgdii=&imgrc=8hr6AgMG1YffmM%253A%3Bi6jq25pT2GMiQM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fsports.mearsonlineauctions.com%252FItemImages%252F000042%252F376c7a17-ab4f-46ca-b2a7-78db3377d123_lg.jpeg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fsports.mearsonlineauctions.com%252F1979_pope_john_paul_ii_grant_park_mass_17__x_12_1-lot42367.aspx%3B4216%3B3128

 

[Joe_5859]

As a Filipino I have to speak out. I say we do things differently here. My Theology professor was right. This, shall I call, “stinginess” with regards to liturgy is a mainly Western thing.

And if a crowd of seven million people - faithful, reverent people I might add - would want to receive Jesus then what’s stopping them? Some of the posts in this thread who feel “abhorrent” about this sound like something out of a Pharisee. Remember when Zacchaeus wanted to listen and reach out to Jesus but can’t because it was too crowded? They are like the people in the Mass.

And besides, since that these people are passing the Eucharist to other people means that there is a sense of reverence that people would want to share that reverence to others and would want others to receive the grace of God. Isn’t that what the Church is supposed to be? The Body of Christ - a communion of people working and helping each other so everyone in it can receive the grace of Christ? I say the papal mass is a great metaphor for what the Church is supposed to be.

I trust that they are aware that they are holding the Body of Christ. Most Filipinos go to Mass, unlike in the West. They know the protocol well. Maybe the people who see this as “abhorrent” are envious of our strong faith as a people?

I think we should all pause and think about the logistics involved in distributing the Eucharist to millions of people all packed together. I’ve been to a few Masses that were packed (but not even close to these numbers), and there definitely are not neat straight lines of people going up to Communion.

I do sometimes wonder if it is an American thing. I had a friend who studied in Rome and he said that the concept of a “line” was very fluid. At Communion time, people would just get up and start going no matter where they were sitting.

I understand that people who are taken aback by these things are motivated by their love for the Eucharist. That’s certainly an admirable thing to have. But let’s not be so quick to judge other people’s degree of reverence towards the Eucharist based on a one minute YouTube video.

 

[ProVobis]

I do sometimes wonder if it is an American thing.

You may be onto something. It seems as in the English Masses, everyone goes and goes in a methodical (and perhaps too perfunctory) manner. But in Spanish or Polish Masses, because maybe a half do not receive, you do have people literally walking over one another when approaching for communion. I have noticed that. However, in one Spanish Mass I go to, those who don’t intend to go to communion sit in back so that alleviates a lot of the traffic problems.

 

[CuriousAlways]

Is everyone assuming that all these folks in the video are Catholic? For some reason, that thought just popped into my always curious mind. Mmmmmmmm? And, who is to say that everyone attending these Masses are familiar with Catholic teaching - particularly when it comes to the reception of the Holy Eucharist? Non-Catholics have a different understanding of same. Very interesting discussion here.

 

[Joe_5859]

You may be onto something. It seems as in the English Masses, everyone goes and goes in a methodical (and perhaps too perfunctory) manner. But in Spanish or Polish Masses, because maybe a half do not receive, you do have people literally walking over one another when approaching for communion. I have noticed that. However, in one Spanish Mass I go to, those who don’t intend to go to communion sit in back so that alleviates a lot of the traffic problems.

That’s sort of an interesting flipside to the whole thing. Going up in a “methodical” and “perfunctory” way can lead many to receive the Eucharist by rote, which isn’t exactly reverent.

With regards to the Eucharist, I often think of Jesus standing before His accusers and remaining silent. He comes to us in silence in the Eucharist. He does not shield himself from buffets and spitting. He comes to us in a completely vulnerable form, much like He came into the world as a baby.

Yes, there will always be people who receive Communion and are not in a state of grace. And certainly we do not want to encourage people to do such a thing or imply that it is no big deal. But since I know I cannot read hearts, I try not to judge too harshly from appearances.

 

[LongingSoul]

Yes, there will always be people who receive Communion and are not in a state of grace. And certainly we do not want to encourage people to do such a thing or imply that it is no big deal. But since I know I cannot read hearts, I try not to judge too harshly from appearances.

That’s the conclusion that I come to as I contemplate the video and the whole thread. What is the right response to the things I witness, that most properly reflects not just the nature of the Eucharist but also the relationship Christ has with these people I am observing.

Is what is happening a thing of chaotic beauty in an over exuberance to be near the Lord in their spiritual starvation… or is it really a vile desecration of the most heinous kind and witness to the white hot lava of hells beckoning claws?

Scripture is adamant about the state of the heart being of infinitely greater measure than our adherence to the letter of the law. I really think it enriches the law to recognise the beauty of an unbound moment of love for Christ.

 

[ProVobis]

That’s sort of an interesting flipside to the whole thing. Going up in a “methodical” and “perfunctory” way can lead many to receive the Eucharist by rote, which isn’t exactly reverent.

With regards to the Eucharist, I often think of Jesus standing before His accusers and remaining silent. He comes to us in silence in the Eucharist. He does not shield himself from buffets and spitting. He comes to us in a completely vulnerable form, much like He came into the world as a baby.

That’s the conclusion that I come to as I contemplate the video and the whole thread. What is the right response to the things I witness, that most properly reflects not just the nature of the Eucharist but also the relationship Christ has with these people I am observing.

I was making my comments about the video from the mechanical and RS aspects. I’m hardly qualified to get involved in WWJD-type arguments so I’m bowing out of further discussion on this. Proceed…

 

[J_Peterson]

You may be onto something. It seems as in the English Masses, everyone goes and goes in a methodical (and perhaps too perfunctory) manner. But in Spanish or Polish Masses, because maybe a half do not receive, you do have people literally walking over one another when approaching for communion. I have noticed that. However, in one Spanish Mass I go to, those who don’t intend to go to communion sit in back so that alleviates a lot of the traffic problems.

When I was abstaining from communion I would try and pick a seat near a column so that I didn’t have to get up to let anybody by. Made it easier to spend the time kneeling in prayer without having to look up every couple seconds.

About the lines, I’m a huge fan. I’m pretty neurotic and feel like I’m cutting in front of people when there isn’t a clear line. I wonder if Americans are just more neurotic than other countries? haha

I have to admit, I would be very, very uncomfortable if I witnessed what was going on in the video and I am very far from a traditionalist.

 

[Nintendo2000]

Simply calling it a “viral video” does not make it so. It only has some 3,000+ views. If it were truly “viral”, it would have millions.

Yeah, I don’t think we need to set ourselves up as the liturgy police for papal Masses. We self-appoint ourselves to such positions at our own peril.

It was viral on Facebook; the video I posted was only a repost on YouTube. It had 30k+ shares.

 

[Joe_5859]

It was viral on Facebook; the video I posted was only a repost on YouTube. It had 30k+ shares.

I was being a bit facetious. When you put “viral video” in the thread title, it raised my expectations. I was expecting it to have 3 million views, not 3 thousand. It is up to 13 thousand now, though.

 

[Tigg]

I have to admit, I would be very, very uncomfortable if I witnessed what was going on in the video and I am very far from a traditionalist.

Thank you for stating this.

 

[SWolf]

SWolf;12680061:

What would you have done if you were there?

Not let hosts fall in the mud?

thepinoycatholic.blogspot.com/2015/01/communion-in-hand-is-culprit.html

I have talked to some EMHCs and even nuns who were stationed at the Communion Stations. I asked them for their “experiences”.

They found Hosts in the mud!

If those who defend this practice call this a pastoral response and about “feelings”, then let us just throw away the Bible, the Catechism, the Code of Canon Law (which the Church wrote as a pastoral response to the pastoral needs of the Church). We’ll just all see fit what is proper and necessary based on our feelings, based on what the Spirit tells us, based on whatever tricks or creativities a bishop or priest can ever think of.