Vocation To Secular Religious Orders

[Augustine]

And, btw, John Paul II was a Secular Discalced Carmelite. :yup:

I thought so too, then I was told that this wasn’t the case. The closer to Carmel he got was by wearing the Brown Scapular, as supposedly enrolled in Confraternity of Our Lady of Mt. Carmel, as he himself said in the letter to Carmelites in celebration of their 800th anniversary.

If you have more complete information about it, I’d appreciate it.

Thanks.

 

[Augustine]

They have their own superior general, their own rule, their own constitution, their own government, their own system of government…

The OCDS is under the jurisdiction of the OCD friars, but we have our own rule (the same as OCD), our own constitution, our own statutes, our own government and system of government. They were drawn with the friars and they approved them.

BTW, wasn’t VII which suggested that the term “third order” be dropped in favor of “secular order”?

Thanks.

 

[JReducation]

With the Secular Discalced Carmelites, each Province of the Order has one or more (depending on the size of the Province) Provincial Delegate, a friar assigned by the Provincial Superior, to oversee the OCDS Communities within the Province.

That’s what I thought. Help me out here on the OCDS. They do not have their own superiors, do they?

That’s not the case with the Secular Franciscans. St. Francis wanted each Order to be completely autonomous. They depended on him while he was the Minister General. But when he was no longer the Superior General, each Order elected its own, with his blessing.

What he did do was to write that all of his sons and daughters were bound to obey him and his successors for all time. He retained his spiritual fatherhood through is canonically elected successors.

Friars are never assigned to oversee or govern the Secular Franciscans, just as they may not govern any of the female Franciscan communities of sisters or those of nuns either. Francis wanted the Brothers and Sisters of Penance (Secular Franciscans) to be an independent Order. He secured a Bull from Pope Honorius to that effect. The Secular Franciscans have always been dependent on the Papacy or the Holy Father’s delegate. Each of the Franciscan Orders has a Cardinal Protector. Sometimes one Cardinal is the Protector for the four Franciscan Orders. But the governance is not shared.

Each Order of friars has its own constitutions. In each constitution it says that the Major Superior must provide a Spiritual Assistant to the Secular Order, if asked by the Secular Order. The Assistant is a spiritual role, not a juridical role. The Secular Minister and the council are the highest ranking authorities in the Order.

The Spiritual Assistant has not vote, no voice on the council, may not vote in the chapter of the order, is not bound by the Constitutions of the Secular Order and may not give any unsolicited (name removed by moderator)ut into the writing of the Consitutions. The Constitutions were written at the General Chapter of the Secular Franciscans in 2001. The General Spiritual Assistant was present for spiritual advice. The friars are very involved with the Secular Order as their brothers, not their leaders. Even some of the cloistered Poor Clares are involved as Spiritual Assistants.

Also, the Spiritual Assistant, need not be a Franciscan. It may be any person who is trained and has credentials in Spiritual Direction and Guidance. Some regions and local fraternities have diocesan priests or deacons. Others have lay mystical theologians. Other have religious or clerics from other religious families who are well versed in spiritual direction and in Franciscan spirituality and mysticism.

This is one difference between one Secular Order and others.

The Lay Missionaries of Charity follow the same organization as the Secular Franciscans. Mother Teresa borrowed a great deal from St. Francis in setting up her four communities. We always think of Mother’s Sisters. But we forget that she founded three other communities, as did St. Francis. She gave each of them autonomy from each other.

Autonomy among the Franciscans and the Missionaries of Charity means zero interference. IT DOES NOT MEAN zero interaction. On the contrary. They are to maintain an on-going relationship through shared retreats, formation courses, meetings and other joint ventures to give witness to the Church that they are the same family and that families grow in holiness as one body. Usually, when a fraternity is in its infancy stage, they receive a great deal of guidance and valuable support from a member of one of the other Franciscan Orders or one of the other Societies of Missionaries of Charity.

Fraternally,

JR

 

[Augustine]

I’m still a novice in the OCDS, so I may be off in my answers.

• That’s what I thought. Help me out here on the OCDS. They do not have their own superiors, do they?

Each OCDS community elects its own superior, who presides the elected council. The election is approved by the friars.

• Each Order of friars has its own constitutions. In each constitution it says that the Major Superior must provide a Spiritual Assistant to the Secular Order, if asked by the Secular Order. The Assistant is a spiritual role, not a juridical role. The Secular Minister and the council are the highest ranking authorities in the Order.

Each OCDS community has to have a spiritual assistance, who must be an OCD, typically friars, but I believe that they may be nuns.

• The Spiritual Assistant has not vote, no voice on the council, may not vote in the chapter of the order, is not bound by the Constitutions of the Secular Order

Same in the OCDS.

I think that there’s just a general scheme that different spiritual families decide to implement the details differently.

HTH

 

[JReducation]

The OCDS is under the jurisdiction of the OCD friars, but we have our own rule (the same as OCD), our own constitution, our own statutes, our own government and system of government. They were drawn with the friars and they approved them.

BTW, wasn’t VII which suggested that the term “third order” be dropped in favor of “secular order”?

Thanks.

I don’t know if the Council actually ever said this. I do know this.

In 1975 Pope Paul VI ordered the Franciscan family to drop the term Third Order. The reason was that the so called Third Order of the Franciscans was the first to be founded. His feeling was that this was a term used to rank people, rather than to expressed chronology.

By the time that the Observants, Capuchins, and many of the Poor Clares came into existence, the Secular Order was very ancient.

Unlike the Carmelites, the Friars never had to approve the constitutions for the Secular Franciscans. That was done by the Popes since Pope Nicholas IV in the late 13th century and it is still the law today. The last constitution had to approved by Pope John Paul II in 2001.

I’m not sure if the Council ever mandated it. I know that the revision of Canon Law in 1983 gathered all Third Orders under the umbrella of Public Associations of the Faithful. But there are many Orders, Congregatiions and Secular Institutes that are Public Associations of the Faithful.

Maybe that’s where the term Third Order got dropped for good.

Augustine, that’s a good historical question. The answer may be in Perfectae Caritatis in the Vatican II Documents. It’s the official document on religious life or it may be found in the Constitution on The Church.

Fraternally,

JR

 

[ack]

BTW, wasn’t VII which suggested that the term “third order” be dropped in favor of “secular order”?

If you know where this appears in the VII documents, I would be interested in seeing it. The term “third order” is present in the 1983 Code of Canon Law (see Canon 303). I think the legal distinctions between Secular and Third orders were eliminated in the 1983 Code of Canon Law, and the continued use of distinctions between the two are now for historical or traditional reasons only.

Since 1983, there have been several new organizations which have the characteristics of Third or Secular orders. Not all of these groups choose to refer to themselves as Third Orders. For example, the laypeople of Miles Christi (mileschristi.org/?id=4) do not refer to themselves as a Third Order, but the Third Order of the Institute of the Incarnate Word (iveamerica.org/pagpub.asp?page=11) does. Both are lay organizations attached to a religious institute which is part of a larger religious family.

 

[JReducation]

I’m still a novice in the OCDS, so I may be off in my answers.

Each OCDS community elects its own superior, who presides the elected council. The election is approved by the friars.

Each OCDS community has to have a spiritual assistance, who must be an OCD, typically friars, but I believe that they may be nuns.

HTH

For anyone interested, here is one difference between Carmelite and Franciscan.

Among the Carmelites the election is approved by the friars. Among the Franciscans, the friars have no voice. The General Election is approved by the Sacred Congregation for Religious and Secular Institutes. Regional and local elections are approved by the Council at the next level above. The council is always Secular Franciscan, not friars.

The Spritual Assistant of the Carmelites must be a Carmelite. The Spiritual Assistant of the Secular Franciscans can be anyone approved by the Regional Council of Secular Franciscans and the local bishop. The Secular Franciscans are veyr tied into the local bishop, unless the fraternity is based at a friary or a Poor Clare monastery. Then the bishop is not involved. Those houses are outside his jurisdiction.

Fraternally,

JR

 

[ack]

I’m not sure if the Council ever mandated it. I know that the revision of Canon Law in 1983 gathered all Third Orders under the umbrella of Public Associations of the Faithful. But there are many Orders, Congregatiions and Secular Institutes that are Public Associations of the Faithful.

I don’t know if this was true in the 1917 Code of Canon Law, but this is not true in the 1983 Code of Canon Law.

Secular Institutes are governed under canons 710-730 and are distinct from Associations of the Faithful, governed under canons 298-329.

Religious congregations are usually governed under canons 607-709 (religious institutes), except for new groups which have not been erected as religious institutes (example: the Canons Regular of St. John Cantius)

There are groups that wish to become Secular Institutes or Religious Institutions someday, but have not yet obtained the proper Decree of Erection. These groups are Associations of the Faithful, but cannot be called Religious Institutes or Secular Institutes until they are erected as such.

 

[JReducation]

If you know where this appears in the VII documents, I would be interested in seeing it. The term “third order” is present in the 1983 Code of Canon Law (see Canon 303). I think the legal distinctions between Secular and Third orders were eliminated in the 1983 Code of Canon Law, and the continued use of distinctions between the two are now for historical or traditional reasons only.

Since 1983, there have been several new organizations which have the characteristics of Third or Secular orders. Not all of these groups choose to refer to themselves as Third Orders. For example, the laypeople of Miles Christi (mileschristi.org/?id=4) do not refer to themselves as a Third Order, but the Third Order of the Institute of the Incarnate Word (iveamerica.org/pagpub.asp?page=11) does. Both are lay organizations attached to a religious institute which is part of a larger religious family.

Bold is mine.

Let us keep in mind that not all Secular Orders are attached to a religious family. There is a juridical difference. We risk offending some Secular and Religious communities.

An example among religious would be the friars on EWTN. They are Franciscan, but they are not part of the Franciscan Order. They are part of the Franciscan Family. The Poor Clares are also autonomous. They are part of the Franciscan family, but not attached to it. We have nothing to do with their structure or government. They are our sisters, not dependents.

In large religious families the word attached implies dependence. I would use this word only when it is legally appropriate.

The Franciscans have no authority over the Poor Clares, excepting those who are part of their Order. The same applies to the Secular Order. The Secular Order is not part of the Order of Friars Minor. There is no attachment.

I’m not sure about the community that you linked above. Are they legally dependent part of the larger community?

Fraternally,

JR

 

[ack]

Let us keep in mind that not all Secular Orders are attached to a religious family. There is a juridical difference. We risk offending some Secular and Religious communities.

You are correct. I don’t think I contradicted this in my post.

I’m not sure about the community that you linked above. Are they legally dependent part of the larger community?

The Institute of the Incarnate Word Third Order is legally attached to the First Order. Each chapter is under the authority of the provincial superior of the province where it resides.

I thought that this was the case for the Miles Christi organization, but I am unable to find their constitution online and cannot confirm this.

 

[Adoro_Te_Devote]

I’m learning a lot in this thread, so I, too, would like to thank JReducation for startng it. Granted it started from a side topic between he and I on an unrelated thread, but I’m learning a lot more this way.

A few years ago, a guy I “met” online and I had conversations about Third Orders/Secular Religious, etc., and he was very into this as a way to holiness. I just wasn’t “there” yet, but his words never left me. He was a holy guy, and I think largely because of him and his encouragement, I’m in Grad School now. He made me ask the question, “Why NOT me?”. And now, in discerning either a Religious Vocation to formal Religious Life (ie to become a Sister or Nun), or to Vocation attached to the Lay state, well, I can thank him for that, too. He was right, everything he said.

It is a way to holiness. All of us are called to a certain Spirituality, and it is God who calls us, and has formed us for it. But we have to learn to recognize it and find our path. Some people are Franciscan, some are Domincan, some are Carmelite, some are Benedictine. There are some major families there, there are some that are related, there are offshoots that are just as holy.

EVERYONE is called to this. The lay-orders, etc, help us all, married or single, to be able to deepen our prayer life, our committment to God and His people, through the foundational principles of love of God and love of neighbor. If we don’t have both, we don’t have either.

So I guess I just want to interject the spiritual into this conversation for the benefit of anyone reading but not commenting. (I myself don’t have a lot to say that is factual with regard to this topic…what I know is just not sufficient other than to provide Dominican links.)

We have to discern where God is calling us, where we are in our lives, and to recognize that no matter where we are, we are being beckoned on. Although I’m not promised anywhere, nor do I have vows, I can tell you this; the one thing I know is that if I am to become holy, I NEED to committ myself formally SOMEWHERE. If I am to live a Single life, then I need to be a part of somethign larger, something that guides me more formally in a certain spirituality. For myself, I believe I am Dominican. I appreciate all the other spiritualities, but it seems the Dominican spirituality (which seems to be a synthesis of many, but has its own specific strength) calls to me and won’t leave me be.

So…JReducation, to either suggest more info for this thread, or perhaps a beginning of another…can you and those of you who are living out Lay promises describe the requirements and formation? What obedience you give? The time committment, how you discerned, etc?

 

[ack]

We have to discern where God is calling us, where we are in our lives, and to recognize that no matter where we are, we are being beckoned on. Although I’m not promised anywhere, nor do I have vows, I can tell you this; the one thing I know is that if I am to become holy, I NEED to committ myself formally SOMEWHERE. If I am to live a Single life, then I need to be a part of somethign larger, something that guides me more formally in a certain spirituality. For myself, I believe I am Dominican. I appreciate all the other spiritualities, but it seems the Dominican spirituality (which seems to be a synthesis of many, but has its own specific strength) calls to me and won’t leave me be.

A great insight! I’m highlighting this so nobody on the thread misses it.

 

[JReducation]

As one of the Canonists in our community said to me today, “drop the Canon Law. It will only make the average person dizzy. Canon Law was written for jurists, not the average lay person. When the rubber meets the road, what matters is the Rule and Constitutions of the community, because that’s what the individual’s commit to follow. They do not commit to follow Canon Law. Canon Law only exists to make sure that these documents are consistent with Church Tradition and the needs of the Church.”

We began to speak about our own Franciscan family. We discussed how despite the changes in taxonomy in canon law, our Franciscan family is still guided by Francis’ taxonomy and is protected by the Apostolic See. For every article in Canon Law, there is an indult, an exception or an encyclical from the Apostolic See that speaks to our Franciscan family.

For example, Canon Law no longer speaks about Orders. It speaks about Public Associations of the Faithful. However, many Franciscan communities that are Public Associations of the Faithful are religious, because they are part of the Franciscan Family which was established by a decree of the Apostolic See. They enjoy the same exempt status as the Friars Minor, the Poor Clares and the Secular and Regular Franciscans (SFO and TOR).

What’s the bottom line? For Franciscans the bottom line is that whether you are a Friar, nun, sister or lay person, you make a solemn commitment to live according the Rule that St. Francis wrote for your Order. Francis wrote three rules and founded four communities.

The Constitutions determine how the Rule is to be implemented. The Rule cannot be changed, even by Canon Law. Only a pope can change one of the Franciscan Rules. They all have a Papal Bull that protects them even from the members of the Franciscan family.

I’d rather discuss the vocation to the Secular Franciscan Order, the Lay Dominicans, the Secular Carmelites, the Benedictine Oblates and others. As I have said before, I know more about the Franciscans, being a Franciscan myself. I also am not a Canon Lawyer, my entire academic and religious training was in Mystical Theology and philosophy. My ministry has been the formation of Franciscan Friars, Seculars and Religious.

The vocation to a Secular Order or a Lay Order is a true vocation, equal in dignity and commitment to the call to a Regular Order. For those who do not know, the Church defines a Regular Order as an order of religious men or women who live the common life. Secular Orders and Lay Orders USUALLY do not live in communities. That being said, they have a fraternal life. Some gather more frequently than others.

Among the Franciscans the fraternity gathers at least once a month, but usually twice for formal meetings. However, they must take care of each other when they are elderly or infirm, which means that they have more frequent contact. They provide financial support for each other when there is a need. They are linked to every other fraternity in the region. The Ministers (superiors) of each fraternity meet regularly and organize common activities for the region. The Regional Ministers (superiors) plan on-going joint activities, ministries and formation for the fraternity at the national level. The General Minister meets with the Regional Ministers to coordinate the life and ministry of the Order around the world. He reports to the Apostolic See on a regular schedule, every three years. He also attends all functions with the four General Ministers: (Observant Franciscans, OFM; Conventual Franciscans, OFM Conv; Capuchin Franciscans, OFM Cap; and Third Order Regular Franciscans, TOR).

There are two ways in which the Secular Franciscans make profession.

1. The individual makes a Solemn Public Promise to live according to the Rule of the Brothers and Sisters of Penance, written by St. Francis. The Rule includes the evangelical counsels of chastity, poverty and obedience. Celibacy is optional, unless you are a Latin Rite priest, or
2. the individual makes simple public vows of chastity, poverty and obedience. He promises to live according to the Rule of the Brothers and Sisters of Penance. In this case, celibacy is part of the profession. The individual need not be a priest to be bound to celibacy.

Here is why Franciscan canonists advise you to pay attention to the Rule, Constitutions and the authority of the Council, rather than confusing yourself with Canon Law. The Constitutions have already covered the requirements of Canon Law or have the necessary indults when there is a conflict of interpretation between the Rule and Canon Law.

1. Among the Franciscans, final profession is for life. You can only renew your profession up to six years. You must them make your perpetual profession or leave. You cannot renew again.
2. If you make public vows, everything in Canon Law applying to the vowed state applies to you, even though you are not a member of an institute with vows. Because the vows were received by the superior of the fraternity in the name of the Church. In my case, I am one of those persons in vows.
3. Franciscans cannot belong to any other religious family, secular, lay or regular. You can only be Franciscan. You can’t double up. That would be sufficient reason for expulsion from the order and your profession is invalid. This does not include organizations that do not require a profession, such as the Knights of Columbus or the Holy Name Society, etc.

On another post I’ll share more about the rite of profession, our daily life and obligations, and our ministry. On this post I wanted to share about membership in the Brothers and Sisters of Penance (SFO).

I would like to know more about the other Secular and Lay Orders out there; there are any members on these forums.

Fraternally,

JR

 

[JReducation]

I’m learning a lot in this thread,

I’m so glad that you and others are too. I know that I learned something that I didn’t know about Lay Dominicans and the Secular Discalced Carmelites.

A few years ago, a guy I “met” online and I had conversations about Third Orders/Secular Religious, etc., and he was very into this as a way to holiness. I just wasn’t “there” yet, but his words never left me. He was a holy guy, and I think largely because of him and his encouragement, I’m in Grad School now. He made me ask the question, “Why NOT me?”.,

I think that’s the essential question, why not? Recently, my daugher was wondering if she could handle her teaching, extracurricular activities and go back to school to get her PhD. Her boyfriend said to her, “If others can do it, why not you?” Today she is six months short of graduating, working on her dissertation. Sometimes we need to someone to give us a little nudge in the right direction.

There is no reason why Christ cannot call someone to consecrate his/her life to him through a Secular Order, a Lay Order or as an Oblate. With all due respect to the call to the priesthood and to the Regular Religious Life, we tend to forget that there are other callings, equal in dignity, in their ability to lead us to holiness. Many men and women have achieved great holiness in these communities. They have also achieved great things for the Church. Catherine of Siena comes to mind. She was a Lay Dominican, so was John Paul II, Martin de Porres, and Rose of Lima. John XXIII was a Secular Franciscan, so was Pius X and Leo XIII. Their respective charisms made them who they were.

And now, in discerning either a Religious Vocation to **formal Religious Life **(ie to become a Sister or Nun), or to Vocation attached to the Lay state, well, I can thank him for that, too. He was right, everything he said.

I think the terms you are looking for are Regular Religioius Life or Secular Religious Life. They are both formal, because they are public professions made to the Church, received by the Church.

It is a way to holiness. All of us are called to a certain Spirituality, and it is God who calls us, and has formed us for it. But we have to learn to recognize it and find our path.

This is true. Each person has to find his path.

EVERYONE is called to this. The lay-orders, etc, help us all, married or single, to be able to deepen our prayer life, our committment to God and His people, through the foundational principles of love of God and love of neighbor. If we don’t have both, we don’t have either.

This reminds me of a saying among the Carthusians. “The only thing that leads to holiness and joy is union with God.”

We have to discern where God is calling us, where we are in our lives, and to recognize that no matter where we are, we are being beckoned on.

We will find the response through prayer, sacraments, scripture, spiritual reading and spiritual direction.

I NEED to committ myself formally SOMEWHERE. If I am to live a Single life, then I need to be a part of somethign larger, something that guides me more formally in a certain spirituality.

This is usually the case for most people. Though we must also recognize that it is not the case for everyone. Francis of Assisi did not want to commit himself to a religious or a secular community. He simply wanted to live the Gospel. Others followed him. He did not follow a spiritual father or leader. The same was true of Mother Teresa.

So…JReducation, to either suggest more info for this thread, or perhaps a beginning of another…can you and those of you who are living out Lay promises describe the requirements and formation? What obedience you give? The time committment, how you discerned, etc?

Now you have hit the Big “O”. Obedience is easier within a conventual community. There are less distractions. I spent 10 years of my life working alongside our Capuchin brothers, as a consecrated Secular Franciscan. I was able to see that obedience was easier, because it is a given that you will obey inside a convent or friary.

When you life in the secular world, there are many voices that tell you to be “your own person”. You also have many more voices to obey. In the Franciscan spirit one is called to obey ALL legitimate authority. This includes your boss at the office, the Church, the government, your parents, the leadership within the Order and so forth. Sometimes, they are not all saying the same thing. You have to choose the greater good. This is tough, but not impossible, if you take it to prayer. We will discuss it more in future posts.

Fraternally,

JR

 

[FCEGM]

The Spritual Assistant of the Carmelites must be a Carmelite.

JR, although it is preferable that each Community of O.C.D.S. has a Spiritual Assistant who is a friar of the Order, it isn’t a necessity. When a Community or Recognized Group (the first stage in the formation of a canonically recognized Community) is not in a close enough proximity to the O.C.D. friars then a Spiritual Assistant of another Order or a diocesan priest may be approved by the Provincial Delegate if there is assurance that the proposed candidate for the position has knowledge of and appreciation for the Saints and charism of the Order. Such is the case with the Recognized Group formed a year ago in Charlotte, NC., and I know that for many years a wonderful Jesuit priest served the Seattle O.C.D.S. Community.

 

[FCEGM]

That’s what I thought. Help me out here on the OCDS. They do not have their own superiors, do they?

JR, each OCDS Community has an elected President, but the election of the President and all other elected officers must be approved by the Provincial Delegate who oversees the Community. The President, Secretary and Councillors then appoint the Director of Formation from among the Community’s members (also subject to the approval of the P.D.).

 

[FCEGM]

I thought so too, then I was told that this wasn’t the case. The closer to Carmel he got was by wearing the Brown Scapular, as supposedly enrolled in Confraternity of Our Lady of Mt. Carmel, as he himself said in the letter to Carmelites in celebration of their 800th anniversary.

If you have more complete information about it, I’d appreciate it.

Thanks.

Hi, Augustine My information came from an O.C.D. priest who told our Community about the Holy Father’s mentioning his membership as a Secular Order member when he spoke at the Generalate in Rome. I know the letter you refer to and he doesn’t state clearly there about such membership.

 

[JReducation]

JR, each OCDS Community has an elected President, but the election of the President and all other elected officers must be approved by the Provincial Delegate who oversees the Community. The President, Secretary and Councillors then appoint the Director of Formation from among the Community’s members (also subject to the approval of the P.D.).

OK folks, there is another difference between Franciscans and Carmelites.

Among the Franciscans we do not have Presidents. We have a Minister (Superior). The election is not subject to the approval of the Friars. The Friars are not allowed to influence the election and their approval is not necessary for anything that the Secular Order decides.

We do not have a Pronvincial Delegate who oversees the Secular Order. The Secular Order has its own Provincial Superior, just like any religious order.

The local Minister is never allowed to appoint the members of the members of the council. Franciscans do not have a formation director. They have a formation team appointed by the Superior of each order. The formation team consists in the Master of Postulants, Master of Novices and Director of On-Going Formtion. The Minister is the highest ranking authority on formation.

In the USA some regions have chosen to use more secular terms: postulant = inquierer, novice = candidate, and temporary professed = junior. This is not working out as it was hoped. Those regions that changed the taxonomy for a more secular taxonomy are getting less vocations. As usually happens, if you put secular labels on the sacred and the holy, its meaning can be misunderstood and even lost.

Right now there is a General Chapter coming up in 2009. So far, the votes on the part of the Ministers is to return to the classical labels.

The advantage of having the Provincial Delegate approve the elections of the Secular Community is that they are usually friars who are well versed in the charism of the Carmelite Order.

Franciscans, on the other hand have never been allowed to do this. Francis wanted the Friars to be a brotherhood equal to the Secular Brothers and Sisters. His feeling was that they should be completely separate orders withou influencing each other’s mission and way of life. This places a burden on the Secular superiors of having the same degree of formation in the Franciscan charism and life as the Friars and the nuns.

It’s always good to see these differences between Secular Orders.

Interesting stuff

JR

 

[Cloisters]

and what about the Companion Intercessors of the Lamb? Are they secular religious?

Here is a pdf showing the contact for the Philippines:

bellwetheromaha.org/philippines.pdf

Blessings,
Cloisters

 

[barb_finnegan]

Interesting posts about the Secular Orders…

I was in the Secular Franciscans from 1979 (professed 1980) until I ‘walked out’ of the fraternity I was a member of in 1988. I maintained a ‘tenous’ association with the SFO (I still call it “Third Order”-can’t help that) until about 1992.

Then in 1994 a group of OCDS members decided to start a group from their Order that was closer to my Upstate NY hometown. ( Between the ages of 15 and 23, I thought of being a Discalced Carmelite nun; but the Superiors of the monastery I was looking at said that I had a ‘love and loyalty’ to the Order, but not a vocation’.) I went to an ‘informational meeting’ in July 1994, then became a member of the new group. When I joined, I wrote to the head of the Franciscan Third Order province I had belonged to, and he sent me a letter releasing me from my 1980 profession.

I received the Scapular in February 1995, and made temporary promises in 1997. I loved being in the Carmelites! Besides the Marian ‘link’, I had a love for St. Therese and her writings-she was easier to follow than St. Teresa and St. John of the Cross. I went to every meeting save one (I had bronchitis in February 1996), made all the yearly retreats, and even went to a Congress! And when I went on pilgrimages to Avila and Segovia in 1996 and Aylesford, England, in 1997, I remembered the members of my Carmelite group and brought back ‘holy souvenirs’ for them. And various times I brought to the meetings books and pictures I had on Bl. Elizabeth of the Trinity and other recent Carmelite Saints and Blesseds.

But in late 1999, just before I was to make my final promises, I underwent a grueling period of written and verbal evaluations with the spiritual director (a diocesan priest) and the formation director (a married/widowed laywoman). I wasn’t then, and still am not, very articulate about my spiritual life, and so it was difficult (and at times tear-filled) to answer their questions. They determined that I did not have a vocation to the Carmelites, even after having been in the group for six years. The last meeting I attended was in February 2000-the very day I would have made my final promises. And a month or two later, I received a letter from the president of the group releasing me from my temporary promises of 1995.

Mind you, I bear no grudges towards either the spiritual director or the formation director. Whenever I see them-I see the latter more than the former because her Perpetual Adoration hour follows mine-I am always cordial. When my mother passed away in 2004, my first stop after leaving the hospital was the formation director’s house, where I ‘bawled on her shoulder’. And she was very kind and comforting-and let me use her phone to make calls to relatives and friends.

I hope that I did not ‘hijack’ this thread…I apologize if it seems that way. But I want to let other posters know what my experiences in the Third Orders were.

I guess I’m not much of a ‘group person’…not a malcontent or anything like that…but maybe I’m just meant to be alone…