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Pius_X
Guest
Excellent post.
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Pius_X
Guest
I saw that Chicago answered this, so no point in me retyping it.
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Pius_X
Guest
Amen Alleluia!
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Marsha_Adams
Guest
Women of all ages should take Mary as their model. The Bible says little about her, and she says little in the Bible. She spent much time in prayer and contemplation, she loved Jesus, and obedience was important to her.
I would far rather the daughters of our parishes spen their time learning to be like Mary, than to be altar servers. Let boys serve at the altar, let them be schooled in those tasks which will draw them closer to a priestly vocation. For the girls, let us resurrect the soldalities.
I would far rather the daughters of our parishes spen their time learning to be like Mary, than to be altar servers. Let boys serve at the altar, let them be schooled in those tasks which will draw them closer to a priestly vocation. For the girls, let us resurrect the soldalities.
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duskyjewel
Guest
Mary said little, but when she did, she was strong and got her point across.
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Pius_X
Guest
Hmm… now who was it that helped Jesus perform his first miracle, by urging him to do so? Who was it standing at the foot of the cross, where we are made present at the liturgy? Mary, serving Christ, who the priest stands in the person of.
Was not the women who wiped Jesus’s face a woman? Did she not participate in a direct way in the sacrifice? If women did this, then why not altar serve?
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verdigirl
Guest
This is an excellent point. The point of altar serving is not to play baby priest, but rather to serve.
This does not ignore the fact that if it’s ok with JPII, it should be ok with all of us, unless we’re going to play the old “it’s not ex cathedra” game again.
Again, this cafeteria is closed.
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jpiiweloveyou
Guest
This may be offbase, but I’m new to the forums so here goes:
As a young Catholic, I grew up with girls my age being altar girls. I never thought of it as detracting from the guy’s vocation, but I can totally understand that being the case.
As part of the JPII generation, and as far as I understand it, altar girls started when he was Pope. So although it may not have been an infallible declaration, I guess I trust him on the decision. Maybe that isn’t the point, and this is an open forum, but that was my thought and I’m interested in what others think.
As a young Catholic, I grew up with girls my age being altar girls. I never thought of it as detracting from the guy’s vocation, but I can totally understand that being the case.
As part of the JPII generation, and as far as I understand it, altar girls started when he was Pope. So although it may not have been an infallible declaration, I guess I trust him on the decision. Maybe that isn’t the point, and this is an open forum, but that was my thought and I’m interested in what others think.
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Jared123
Guest
Chicago, Verdigirl, Pius X, duskyjewel, anamchara, and anyone else who thinks that altar girls don’t hurt vocations show me some facts to back up your argument. Show me one article or tell me what diocese that you live in so we can see how many young men are in the seminary. Anamchara you blasted me for being some “traditional that is spewing propaganda”. Fine what diocese in California do you live in??? I would love for you to cite us a source that tells us how many young men are currently in the seminary in your diocese. I have contended all along the more orthodox a diocese the more vocations it will have and I continue to cite evidence to backup my argument. I will cite another source that list the dioceses with the most vocations in the U.S. (based on a per capita bases) and guess which diocese tops the list…that’s right the only diocese in the nation that doesn’t allow altar girls, Lincoln, Nebraska.
The article also list the dioceses with the fewest vocations. 3 of the 12 dioceses listed are in California (anamchara maybe in live in one of these). The other diocese are all on the east and west coast except two in Texas.
Bash me all you want for being a traditional, orthodox Catholic, but please show us some evidence to back up your argument.
Please read:
www.ignatiusinsight.com/features2005/ziegler_seminarians1_aug05.asp
The article also list the dioceses with the fewest vocations. 3 of the 12 dioceses listed are in California (anamchara maybe in live in one of these). The other diocese are all on the east and west coast except two in Texas.
Bash me all you want for being a traditional, orthodox Catholic, but please show us some evidence to back up your argument.
Please read:
www.ignatiusinsight.com/features2005/ziegler_seminarians1_aug05.asp
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verdigirl
Guest
Well, I don’t bash you at all for it. That’s what you prefer…who am I to say it’s not right for you?
But your behavior in this thread has been a poor excuse for Christian charity and brotherly love. You can’t seem to understand that people don’t want to fight with you. We just have different opinions.
Peace be with you…I’ll keep praying for your conversion.
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Jared123
Guest
Conversion…I’m already Catholic.
I wouldn’t call this fighting, I would call it a debate over altar girls. I don’t agree with women being on the altar, you and others do. Talk about Chrisitan charity, go back read post #96, 98,99 does this strike you as Chrisitian charity.Like I continue to say, show us some evidence to prove that altar girls either increase vocations or don’t hurt them. When you can do this I will consider your argument.
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verdigirl
Guest
Hey, brother, listen up.Conversion…I’m already Catholic.
Like I continue to say, show us some evidence to prove that altar girls either increase vocations or don’t hurt them. When you can do this I will consider your argument.
No one wants to argue with you. Hence, nothing for you to consider!
As far as the other posts are concerned, I see them as Christian chastisement. You can’t seem to understand that no one wants to argue with you.
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Jared123
Guest
I take this as you don’t have any evidence to back you your theory that altar girls either help or don’t hurt vocations. Maybe someone else will present some evidence.
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Cran
Guest
There is no evicence for one or the other side. True, there are some conservative dioceses who do not allow female altar servers and have many vocations, but nobody can link satisfactorily both things together, this is a matter of opinion, especially in the light that many other parishes that do allow altar servers have also a “full house”. All the articles linked in this topic here are voicing an opinion.
But I ask myself: Would John Paul II. have allowed something that would hurt vocations in this degree as many here do suggest? He was not exactly addle-brained…
Maybe I should dedicate my licentiate-paper to this question, but actually I wanted to write it in church history
But I ask myself: Would John Paul II. have allowed something that would hurt vocations in this degree as many here do suggest? He was not exactly addle-brained…
Maybe I should dedicate my licentiate-paper to this question, but actually I wanted to write it in church history
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Grace283
Guest
In my opinion Alter girls hurt the priesthood, and I am surprised that there are more and more of them.
I believe that being an alter boy it helps the young men go on in living in servitude for the Lord with the Deacons and the Priests as examples.
What does this show in girls? Yes you can you help as an alter girl but that is far as you can go? It can start they’re questioning of “why can’t I do that”… to the extent that they question it and do not like the answer they here in this liberated world where young girls are taught that they could become anything they want to.
But they can’t. Even I know that…
I believe that being an alter boy it helps the young men go on in living in servitude for the Lord with the Deacons and the Priests as examples.
What does this show in girls? Yes you can you help as an alter girl but that is far as you can go? It can start they’re questioning of “why can’t I do that”… to the extent that they question it and do not like the answer they here in this liberated world where young girls are taught that they could become anything they want to.
But they can’t. Even I know that…
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verdigirl
Guest
I have always thought that is a wonderful way to begin learning humility and discerning your place in God’s plan. As an orthodox feminist Roman Catholic, this is something I have had to accept, and I have found strength in my role in the Church.
I thank God for Vatican II. It wasn’t all that long ago that a woman was not to be allowed on the sanctuary. Now, after being properly catechized and mandated, we can be Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion. And to think we couldn’t even touch our Lord with our bare hands at one time!
God is truly merciful!
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Grace283
Guest
NICE ANSWER
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chicago
Guest
I take this as evidence that you have your mind made up and are fishing for opportunities to proselytize your viewpoint. It is classic baiting technique not unlike what a fundamentalist will do to try to “prove” someone wrong and create a convert. It would well behoove you to learn how to engage more with persons than mere arguments. That is the point at which both parties will likely learn and grow from interaction with each other than though the methods which you here insistently employ.I take this as you don’t have any evidence to back you your theory that altar girls either help or don’t hurt vocations. Maybe someone else will present some evidence.
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Pius_X
Guest
You claim that altar boys only has a direct effect on priestly vocations,t he burden of proof falls on you. I am telling you from personal experience that as a high school teenager who is considering the priesthood, who is also an altar server, that serving with girls has no effect either way. If you are not mature enough to get over the “girls do it so I will not,” thing, and refuse to serve, are you really mature enough to serve mass anyway?
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Pius_X
Guest
Except when the priest needed someone to clean, of course! We really have come a long way with regards to equality for women. Also, thank God we can now touch Christ, who is a close and near God, not a far off and aloof God.
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