Wait, Catholics evangelize?

[iloveangels]

You know… the first time I read this comment I didn’t notice all the question marks. Were they there from the start?

Heh. Anyway, I’m pretty vocal about my beliefs. For example, and I know this may not be considered ‘correct’, but I have warned my coworkers that I’m fasting tomorrow so they know why I’m all grumpy when I come in. I can’t help it! When I’m without food I get irritable.

I also openly talk about things I get excited for at Church. Like the Talent Show, or Lent, or Christmas, or whatever!

I know people say we shouldn’t be like I am. We shouldn’t go around broadcasting these things but it’s part of who I am so why should I hide it? That’s kind of how I look at things.

Good for you. You are the exception to the rule.

 

[iloveangels]

Since I’ve been teaching 6th grade CCD for 7 years and RCIA for 3 years, I’ve definitely seen some disturbing trends. When I started teaching my students, approximately 80% attended Mass regularly where that has dropped to 20% for me today. Therefore, I’ve felt a need to cover the Gospel in my weekly classes. Many (most) of these students never get to Confirmation (as a junior in High School) since they drop out once in high school (usually with parents permission). The ones that participate in the high school ministry tend to be awesome but that doesn’t help those that are given the option not to go. So how do we re-catechise the parents? I’ve tried sending material home for the kids to share but that seems to be a waste.

I’ve done door-to-door evangelization through the Legion. It has been a positive experience. I also love the RCIA/Investigator programs we have in our parish. A very positive approach.

My daughter will be doing a 10-month missionary assignment in either Washington DC or K.C, Missouri with a lay evangelization missionary called “A Simple House”. Their website is www.asimplehouse.org. So while I’m happy with my children’s faith, the present style of catechesis needs to be desperately addressed and somehow needs to start in our Catholic homes.

You are correct. The problem is that many catholics are too busy for their own church. They’ve departmentalized everything, and we have a “program” for everything, but people don’t do anything outside of the “programs.” We tend to think we have done enough because we have “programs.” It’s lazy, to be blunt. Yet, it’s the Catholic expectation of how things should work, and getting Catholics to accept anything else is quite impossible. They’ll argue and argue and argue that you can’t work outside these “programs,” and that these “programs” should be sufficient, when the fact is that most of them obviously have no lasting effects on most Catholics. And then, besides all that, as you’ve seen: After all the talk, most Catholics won’t really attend the programs all the way through, no matter what they say.

Catholics have been turned off in some ways, like a light switch, by the ways that parishes operate. If I were to get in my car right now, and go down to the local parish which is about 10 minutes away, there would be nothing going on but the secular education of grade schoolers-spelling, arithmetic, etc. It’s 3:17PM here. The church is locked up for the night at 3:30, so I probably wouldn’t even be able to walk into the Church until tomorrow morning. There are no programs for adults tonight or most nights. So I will do something else with my time today, and nearly every day. When I go to something that has to do with church that’s not specifically mass, I have to drive outside my own parish to do it, and I go about 25 miles to do that. Most people won’t do that. And what’s more, there is no expectation that anyone should. Adults don’t do much as Catholics, except go to Mass, and many don’t even do that. It’s no wonder that they don’t know much of anything about religion. You can’t sustain a living Christian life this way, and many people don’t. They become Christian “zombies,” showing up now and then but really living just like everyone else in the broader culture.

PS, about that grade school: More than half the parents that have kids in the school are really looking for a cheap prep school. The motivation has no religious content in many, more than half, of the cases. This is the same thing you have recounted in your comments. It’s all about getting certificates and so on. The teaching of those secular subjects is the real reason the kids are there.

 

[blueadept]

The teaching of those secular subjects is the real reason the kids are there.

I’ll disagree with your comments here. I’ve witnessed the daily lessons these teachers put out. The problem isn’t really at the teacher level IMHO. Most of the parents that send their children to a Catholic school tend to go to Mass but there still is a disconnect in having their children embrace the faith. Once the kids get through Catholic schools, many barely hang on to their faith when challenged by their peers. IMO, parents need to be the primary teachers and this is where the system tends to breakdown as shown by the disappearance of our 20-somethings from Church.

 

[nickybr38]

I’ll disagree with your comments here. I’ve witnessed the daily lessons these teachers put out. The problem isn’t really at the teacher level IMHO. Most of the parents that send their children to a Catholic school tend to go to Mass but there still is a disconnect in having their children embrace the faith. Once the kids get through Catholic schools, many barely hang on to their faith when challenged by their peers. IMO, parents need to be the primary teachers and this is where the system tends to breakdown as shown by the disappearance of our 20-somethings from Church.

Honestly a trend I’ve seen with all of my friends (Christian and not) is that parents are taking the approach of not teaching their children religious things so the child can choose for themselves.

It seems to me this is a really popular approach these days no matter the religious affiliation of the parents.

For example. I have an atheist friend who was raised by a Catholic and a non-Catholic Christian (not sure what denomination) who decided they would let her choose for herself when she was old enough. She knows NOTHING about Christianity and she chose atheism.

The problem definitely lies with parents more then with schools.

 

[iloveangels]

I’ll disagree with your comments here. I’ve witnessed the daily lessons these teachers put out. The problem isn’t really at the teacher level IMHO. Most of the parents that send their children to a Catholic school tend to go to Mass but there still is a disconnect in having their children embrace the faith. Once the kids get through Catholic schools, many barely hang on to their faith when challenged by their peers. IMO, parents need to be the primary teachers and this is where the system tends to breakdown as shown by the disappearance of our 20-somethings from Church.

And their parents do what? Get them to church? Insist they learn the Catechism? What do they do or not do, exactly? And why do they do that?

And where are those parents on any given Tuesday or Wednesday night anyway. Are they down to the parish or are they doing works of Christian mercy? Where are they? *

[Blueadept, it sounds like you personally are doing the best you can. I’m not saying that you’re not. I’m saying that the systems of catechesis and participation that we currently use have serious flaws. You’re fighting brush fires, one by one, endless brush fires. And this is because the larger system doesn’t work.]*

 

[iloveangels]

Honestly a trend I’ve seen with all of my friends (Christian and not) is that parents are taking the approach of not teaching their children religious things so the child can choose for themselves.

It seems to me this is a really popular approach these days no matter the religious affiliation of the parents.

For example. I have an atheist friend who was raised by a Catholic and a non-Catholic Christian (not sure what denomination) who decided they would let her choose for herself when she was old enough. She knows NOTHING about Christianity and she chose atheism.

The problem definitely lies with parents more then with schools.

And why would a Catholic parent choose to do this, exactly, if they’re so Catholic themselves?

 

[nickybr38]

And why would a Catholic parent choose to do this, exactly, if they’re so Catholic themselves?

Don’t ask me. This is just what I’ve seen. I know many Christian parents (Catholic or Protestant) who have chosen this route. Perhaps I am just running into all the wrong people but I suspect this is a new trend.

Probably this idea that allowing children to choose by not indoctrinating them is better has been spawned by atheists who claim teaching a child religion is ‘child abuse’. And/or that somehow you’ll create a stronger faith in a child if you let them choose for themselves. I dunno, I’m speculating there but I have heard so many parents say they aren’t going to force their religion on their child.

 

[iloveangels]

Don’t ask me. This is just what I’ve seen. I know many Christian parents (Catholic or Protestant) who have chosen this route. Perhaps I am just running into all the wrong people but I suspect this is a new trend.

Probably this idea that allowing children to choose has been spawned by atheists who claim teaching a child religion is ‘child abuse’. And/or that somehow you’ll create a stronger faith in a child if you let them choose for themselves. I dunno, I’m speculating there but I have heard so many parents say they aren’t going to force their religion on their child.

I believe you 100%. I have no doubt that this is exactly what many parents are doing. They do it because they don’t believe that the Catholic church is any better than any other religion, otherwise they’d want it for their children. It could only be considered abuse if it was thought to be arbitrary and forced, correct?

Why have they stopped believing that the Catholic church is any better than the other ways?

 

[nickybr38]

I believe you 100%. I have no doubt that this is exactly what many parents are doing. They do it because they don’t believe that the Catholic church is any better than any other religion, otherwise they’d want it for their children. It could only be considered abuse if it was thought to be arbitrary and forced, correct?

Why have they stopped believing that the Catholic church is any better than the other ways?

I’m not sure… I don’t know these parents, I just know their very confused, very lost children.

And this is why I will be indoctrinating my children. Any other method just creates confused adults.

 

[iloveangels]

I’m not sure… I don’t know these parents, I just know their very confused, very lost children.

And this is why I will be indoctrinating my children. Any other method just creates confused adults.

But that doesn’t answer the question: Why have they stopped believing that the Catholic church is any better than the other ways?

I posted what I think is the reason and you disagreed with it. So what do you think is the reason?
[my reason is here: http://forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=8989020&postcount=39]

[Or maybe you just disagreed with the impression you got that maybe I said that you weren’t trying? I didn’t intend to say you weren’t trying as an individual teacher or even as a group of individual teachers. I know you are. Thank you for trying.]

 

[nickybr38]

But that doesn’t answer the question: Why have they stopped believing that the Catholic church is any better than the other ways?

I posted what I think is the reason and you disagreed with it. So what do you think is the reason?
[my reason is here: http://forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=8989020&postcount=39

]

[Or maybe you just disagreed with the impression you got that maybe I said that you weren’t trying? I didn’t intend to say you weren’t trying as an individual teacher or even as a group of individual teachers. I know you are. Thank you for trying.]

First, I apologize if I’m missing the point. I’m writing at work on breaks so I’m a wee bit distracted.

Second, I’m not a teacher…

But I will say that my parish is very active and involved in catechesis both of people coming in and people already in. Although their RCIA program sucks they do have many, many programs for people who are already Catholic.

They have ongoing retreats, bible studies and just recently they started a bible study for people from the ages 18-35 (the group that has no current social activities set up).

Honestly I think the fault of people not taking their faith seriously lies with parents but also with society. This is an anti-religious society and it’s easy to get confused or lost in it. It’s easy to have your fire burned out these days.

Bottom line, we can’t make people take their faith seriously. They have to decide to go to the classes, they have to decide to believe. All we can do is be living examples of truth.

Right now the Church desperately needs Saints to lead the way.

 

[iloveangels]

First, I apologize if I’m missing the point. I’m writing at work on breaks so I’m a wee bit distracted. Second, I’m not a teacher…

OK, I understand.

But I will say that my parish is very active and involved in catechesis both of people coming in and people already in. Although their RCIA program sucks they do have many, many programs for people who are already Catholic. They have ongoing retreats, bible studies and just recently they started a bible study for people from the ages 18-35 (the group that has no current social activities set up).

You are very fortunate. Most parishes are not like this. Vast sections of the country are virtually comatose when it comes to classes, retreats and so on. And in some of those same areas, if something is offered no one shows up, or the same 6 people show up at every event and that’s all you ever see.

Honestly I think the fault of people not taking their faith seriously lies with parents but also with society. This is an anti-religious society and it’s easy to get confused or lost in it. It’s easy to have your fire burned out these days.

On this we agree. People are busy doing other things and they have sidelined their religion because it’s not the most pressing thing in their eyes. Largely because there’s nothing going on and no reason to go down to the Church, none whatsoever of any sort. For years, it’s simply not been an alternative activity. It’s been considered by many that they are in the best standing possible if they just show up for 45 minutes a week…or even if they show up often enough that they don’t get caught when they don’t show up.

Bottom line, we can’t make people take their faith seriously. They have to decide to go to the classes, they have to decide to believe. All we can do is be living examples of truth.

We can make it so people can’t get things they want if they don’t go to classes. Think about that a bit. This could be anything from being considered a good Catholic by others to getting reduced tuition at the school, and anything in between. Lots of possibilities here.

True enough that you can’t force faith, and you wouldn’t want to, in any case. But getting people to associate with each other and find something to believe in and something to participate in…something to be inspired by…is certainly a start.

And we have got to get rid of the perception that you can be a good Catholic simply by saying you are. This has been poison to the Church. The reason for this is, of course, that it’s simply not true.

Right now the Church desperately needs Saints to lead the way.

Agreed.

 

[iloveangels]

Here’s a great article on this topic that I just found:

osv.com/tabid/7621/itemid/9049/Catholic-Guide-to-a-Spiritual-Makeover.aspx