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estesbob
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I never put anyone on ignore but I ignore a lot of peopleI have had to put some people who refuse to answer posts with logical replies on ignore. It is useless trying to engage them in coherent discussions.
Walmart employee Thanksgiving donations at Canton store cause controversy
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qui_est_ce
Guest
CAF has an ignore feature that prevents you from seeing a poster’s comments.
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Crossbones
Guest
Thank you, but I don’t know why I would ignore Estesbob. His first response to me was justified because I did not clearly articulate why I see it as a similar argument that abortionists made. Now that I clarified my response, he may choose to debate me or perhaps he will accept that I am correct.CAF has an ignore feature that prevents you from seeing a poster’s comments.
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qui_est_ce
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Abortion is murder. Murder is universally considered a crime on our counry.
An better example of our government not implementing Church Teaching would be outlawing contraceptives which don’t cause abortion.
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Crossbones
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An abortionist would argue that the rights of the women outweigh the rights of the child. This is made considerably easier if they don’t acknowledge that the child is a child in vitro. We use church teachings to be a guide that the child in vitro is a human deserving of the full protection of his/her right to life and that outweigh’s his/her mother’s right to have control of her body and we expect this right to be enforced by the power of the government.
This brings us back to the economic argument - church teachings call for a just wage, but some are arguing that government has no place in the enforcement of that just wage. I disagree with that sentiment and feel that those that make that argument should recognize that it is similar to the argument made for legalized abortion.
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qui_est_ce
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We use scientific facts. The child is a human from conception
No, I am arguing that Walmart DOES pay just wages. As pointed out earlier, people agree to work for Walmart. Nobody is forcing them.
The problem is, no one has yet defined what entails a “living wage.” Everyone in this country has running water, heat, food, access to education. Working 40 hours a week @7.35/hour is $15,288.00 per year. For a family of two workers, that amounts to $32,656.00. This is for basic unskilled work. Once the employee gets experience and skills, rates go up, or they can find a job that pays more.
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Crossbones
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This is mostly not in dispute. Most abortionists accept that it is a human life. However, it is the legal question of personhood (i.e., deserving of protection of their rights), which is. From this, we take it from church teachings that personhood begins at conception and deserves protection. That isn’t scientific - it is philosophical or theological.
If you refer to my original post to Estesbob, I wasn’t arguing that Walmart does or does not pay just wages, but rather whether the government has the right to create a policy of a just wage based on church teachings, which I believe it does.
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mikekle
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This made me wonder what the work place would look like if there was no federal minimum wage! I would bet places like walmart would be paying people under $5/hr.
It is sad IMO, it takes an act of congress to literally force companies to pay such a small wage, and companies that pay all new hires the minimum wage are basically saying, we are only paying you this amount because we are legally forced to do so, and do not think you are worth a penny more. Yet, when these new hires start, they are expected to give 110% at work…??? If an employer demands so much from an employee, why should the employee not expect the same of the employer?
It seems what these companies are wanting is a form of usury, they will pay $7.25, which does not buy much in todays world, but expect them to work like they are getting paid $20/hour…of course no one will put out more labor than they are being paid for, unless they are doing it for other purposes, such as donating their time, work for a good cause. It is strange these companies expect so much for such a low wage.
If I had a job like this, I would give them $7.25 an hour worth of work and not a penny more, and why should I? If the company is only willing to give me a certain amount just because they are legally forced to do so, then why should I bend over backwards for them in return? Maybe if all the employees at these places would start giving equal work for their pay, these companies would recognize what they are doing is wrong?
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Ridgerunner
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When the demand for labor is so low, thanks to the anti-employment policies of this administration, this can be expected. Likely, if the minmum was raised to $20 or whatever some think it ought to be, there would be even more people out of work.
And, of course, if one is deliberately chisling one’s employer, one will never get anywhere. They can tell when you’re doing it after awhile, and fellow workers resent it a great deal because if one slacks one’s own work load, it puts the burden on the others.
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Trader
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That is the best way to make sure you never advance beyond minimum wage. No employer would be dumb enough to promote a person with that attitude.
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ByzantineCA
Guest
If corporate fat cats hadn’t moved their operations to Asia, Wal-Mart workers would have better jobs.
We are becoming a third world republic that relies heavily on overseas goods for our daily existence. Cheap foreign goods and mass immigration into America will be part of our downfall, combined with the rampaging moral deviancy and holocaust of abortion.
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estesbob
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As Catholics shouldnt we be just as concerned about Asians being gainfully employed as Americans?
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ByzantineCA
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No sir. We should put our countrymen and women first. I wish the people of Asia well, but they should find their own way. And we can see what happened once we abandoned the produce-and-sell economy for the service economy- records numbers of Americans on welfare and food stamps, even those who have “jobs.”
China is showing America was true creators do- they are now buying up tons of American land and property, especially in wealthy markets like Los Angeles.
China is showing America was true creators do- they are now buying up tons of American land and property, especially in wealthy markets like Los Angeles.
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estesbob
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So it is church teaching that we put our countrymen first?
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Mickey_Finn
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I don’t think this is about nationalism. Or that other “stuff” patriotism for that matter. It’s about rewarding work appropriatly, and ensuring that workers needs are met by their employer as opposed to the welfare system. It saddens me to see people like bob here try to use the church to support their unjust views.
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estesbob
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So when the Church refers to the dignity provided by having a job they are excluding non-Americans? Do not the needs of Asian workers count?
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Dawnia
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The needs of Asian workers should not be provided at the expense of American workers (or any other workers for that matter). And you seem to not care that many of those countries could care less about the welfare and safety of their workers.
There is no dignity in being treated like an expendible commondity to be used and abused, then tossed aside when you’re no longer useful. And if you die because the building you work in collapses on top of you or starts on fire, no big loss. There are plenty more who will work for slave wages to replace you.
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estesbob
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Is that what the Church teaches? I thought it was preferential treatment of the poor-not preferential treatment of American poor. ?
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Dawnia
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Re-read what I wrote. The Church does not teach that one should provide for some at the expense of others.
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estesbob
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What does that mean? They are providing for the livelihood of people in Asia. The Church knows no boundaries. The livelihood of those in Asia is just as important as the livelihood of those in America. How is that “at the expense of others”?
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