Walmart employee Thanksgiving donations at Canton store cause controversy

[qui_est_ce]

Doesn’t matter. You can make it a family of 16 or 20 if you want. The wage should be enough to meet the needs of all.

A truly Catholic economic system (as opposed to the usury-based monstrosity we have now) would be biased toward larger families (“be fruitful and multiply”)

So are you supposed to pay people with different needs different wages?

Why not go a step further and not allow housing prices to reach beyond what a family can afford to pay according to it’s needs?

Who determines those needs? How many pair of shoes should each member of a family be entitled to? Sets of clothes? What about meals? One steak per week?

 

[Lochias]

Again-
Give the person bootstraps, don’t pull them up for the person.

No-one, NO-ONE in this country has an excuse to go without bootstraps.

Can you clarify this statement a little? Do you mean that everyone should be able to get bootstraps if more were willing to help, or that there’s magically a bootstrap under every rock for the person willing to look hard enough?

 

[qui_est_ce]

Can you clarify this statement a little? Do you mean that everyone should be able to get bootstraps if more were willing to help, or that there’s magically a bootstrap under every rock for the person willing to look hard enough?

This

Don’t you believe in magic?

 

[estesbob]

One thing I always find humorous in the "Walmart is evil threads. The people who dont shop there are determined to make those of us who do pay more for what we buy.

 

[qui_est_ce]

I don’t shop at WalMart. I can’t stand the shopping experience. But I don’t think WalMart is evil.

They are trying to put a WalMart in an empty shopping strip near my house. This WalMart plan is attracting all sorts of smaller businesses and would finally provide much needed sales tax revenue to our little suburban city. The neighbors are going BERSERK!!! Why? They don’t want Wal*Mart shoppers in our neighborhood!

 

[Lochias]

This

Don’t you believe in magic?

Nope. My mom has looked for a lifetime and sacrificed everything on the altar of the false belief that “You can change ANYTHING if you just TRY hard enough.”

Some people need help outside of what they can accomplish. Period.

 

[qui_est_ce]

Nope. My mom has looked for a lifetime and sacrificed everything on the altar of the false belief that “You can change ANYTHING if you just TRY hard enough.”

Some people need help outside of what they can accomplish. Period.

I agree. That’s why we need a safety-net: food stamps, sec 8 housing, etc. Those are currently in place, in addition to food pantries and St. Vincent de Paul.

 

[qui_est_ce]

Some people need help outside of what they can accomplish. Period.

Not Wal*Mart’s job, though.

 

[Magdalen2013]

I believe Wal-Mart pays a just wage. You evidently don’t.Neither of our beliefs is contrary to Church teaching on Social Justice.

So you’re just fine with your tax money subsidizing Walmart? You do know that most of their employees’ children are on Medicaid and many also receive food stamps? While the Walmart heirs get richer and richer at taxpayer expense…

 

[qui_est_ce]

So you’re just fine with your tax money subsidizing Walmart? You do know that most of their employees’ children are on Medicaid and many also receive food stamps? While the Walmart heirs get richer and richer at taxpayer expense…

So what is your solution? Stop giving government assistance to poor people? Take away their jobs?

I’d like a link that shows “most of Walmart’s employees children are on medicaid.”

 

[dsully]

If you need to receive food stamps despite having a job, then you are not being paid a fair wage (i.e. living wage). Companies have the responsibility to pay their worker a living wage. Are people really okay with the government essentially subsidizing Wall Mart?

Work was created for people. Thinking that people were created for work is an error.

Amen.

 

[Lochias]

Not Wal*Mart’s job, though.

Yes, it is. They can pay enough for their workers to freaking live, or they can go under.

 

[Magdalen2013]

The figures on Medicaid/SNAP are posted earlier in the thread.

I want every employer to pay at least $15-$20 an hour to their employees. ANY job worth doing should pay enough that the worker will be able to feed, clothe and house themselves.

I want a strong social safety net and a government that helps people.

The truth is that there are not enough jobs. Sooner or later, we’re going to have to take a hard look at instituting Richard Nixon’s “Basic Income” program.

 

[estesbob]

There were no figures showing posted showing that the majority of wal mart employees children were on medicaid.

Why not pay everyone 100 to 150 an hour?

 

[Trader]

Why stop with regulating wages to a level you think is “fair”? Why not force Walmart to charge $1.99/lb for ground beef for people earning less than $50,000 per year, but $3.99 for people earning more than $50,000?

Why not enter your W2 at the gas station so a government computer can decide the fair price for your gas?

If you replace the market with your opinion of what is fair we will have fewer jobs, less food, and less gasoline. Socialism tried to do that with disastrous results everywhere it was tried, and the Catholic Church universally condemns socialism because it contradicts the common good.

 

[qui_est_ce]

Yes, it is. They can pay enough for their workers to freaking live, or they can go under.

You still haven’t told me how much is enough.

 

[Trader]

2434 A just wage is the legitimate fruit of work. To refuse or withhold it can be a grave injustice.221 In determining fair pay both the needs and the contributions of each person must be taken into account. “Remuneration for work should guarantee man the opportunity to provide a dignified livelihood for himself and his family on the material, social, cultural, and spiritual level, taking into account the role and the productivity of each, the state of the business, and the common good.”222 Agreement between the parties is not sufficient to justify morally the amount to be received in wages.

Why have so many people ignored the bolded section of what the catechism says? Some jobs are not worth much and the individual has an obligation to present himself to the employer with skills and the willingness to produce work that is worth a living wage.

The basis of economic activity is to serve the needs of the customer. If you are not willing to do something worth getting paid for, you will always be dependent on the labor of others.

 

[qui_est_ce]

Why stop with regulating wages to a level you think is “fair”? Why not force Walmart to charge $1.99/lb for ground beef for people earning less than $50,000 per year, but $3.99 for people earning more than $50,000?

Why not enter your W2 at the gas station so a government computer can decide the fair price for your gas?

If you replace the market with your opinion of what is fair we will have fewer jobs, less food, and less gasoline. Socialism tried to do that with disastrous results everywhere it was tried, and the Catholic Church universally condemns socialism because it contradicts the common good.

Exactly. Remember the shortages and long lines in the former USSR?

I think it’s time each of us help those in need ourselves.

 

[Jon_Paul]

The only reason this is controversial is because Wal-Mart has come under fire lately by those who don’t think they pay a “fair” wage, whatever that means.

Does that mean that company didn’t pay a “fair” wage?

Pope Leo XIII:

Let the working man and the employer make free agreements, and in particular let them agree freely as to the wages; nevertheless, there underlies a dictate of natural justice more imperious and ancient than any bargain between man and man, namely, that wages ought not to be insufficient to support a frugal and well-behaved wage-earner.

Pope Pius XI:

In the first place, the worker must be paid a wage sufficient to support him and his family.

Pope John XXIII:

We therefore consider it Our duty to reaffirm that the remuneration of work is not something that can be left to the laws of the marketplace; nor should it be a decision left to the will of the more powerful. It must be determined in accordance with justice and equity; which means that workers must be paid a wage which allows them to live a truly human life and to fulfill their family obligations in a worthy manner.

And of course…
Pope Leo XIII:

And it is for this reason that wage-earners, since they mostly belong in the mass of the needy, should be specially cared for and protected by the government.

It is government’s responsibility to enforce a living or “fair” wage. The actual amount completely depends on local and individual situations. $18 an hour sounds incredibly fair to me.

 

[qui_est_ce]

2434 A just wage is the legitimate fruit of work. To refuse or withhold it can be a grave injustice.221 In determining fair pay both the needs and the contributions of each person must be taken into account. “Remuneration for work should guarantee man the opportunity to provide a dignified livelihood for himself and his family on the material, social, cultural, and spiritual level, taking into account the role and the productivity of each, the state of the business, and the common good.”222 Agreement between the parties is not sufficient to justify morally the amount to be received in wages.

Why have so many people ignored the bolded section of what the catechism says? Some jobs are not worth much and the individual has an obligation to present himself to the employer with skills and the willingness to produce work that is worth a living wage.

The basis of economic activity is to serve the needs of the customer. If you are not willing to do something worth getting paid for, you will always be dependent on the labor of others.

Very well put!!

I am a degreed accountant. Right now I work for a (small) company I LOVE. I’ve been here over 9 years. I don’t get paid as much as in the “corporate world” nor do I get as many benefits. But I can afford to work for less at a place I love. I do work two jobs to be able to live the way I want. The other company is also a small business.

If I had a family to support, it would be irresponsible of me to stay here and not be able to pay for my family’s needs.