WALSH: Biden Endorses The Idea That 8-Year-Olds Can Choose Their Gender, Proving That He Is Owned By The Radical Left

[FrankFletcher]

The answer is, they don’t have any. Nothing is this world is worse than the systemic murder of the unborn (except for maybe some terrible genocide I am not aware right now). Millions of children have died, thousands of elderly have died, marriage and families destroyed, and Faith destroyed because of the Democrats platform. I think the only two possible explanations are that either 1. These people truly do not care for human life or 2. Make politics more important than God.

I rejoice that I’m not nearly as comfortable taking on God’s job of judgment. I don’t have the gift of reading another’s heart and again I rejoice.

 

[Billy76]

True, at the end of the day only God knows there true intentions. Assuming the Catholics that vote for Biden are well catechized, I honestly have no other explanation for why they disregard millions upon millions lives.

 

[FrankFletcher]

Perhaps they don’t disregard them. Perhaps they disagree with one party’s approach to pro-life. I realize that’s not something that makes sense to you but it seems a far more charitable reading of their motives.

 

[Billy76]

I mean maybe? Put just doing simple math

Republican policy: Millions upon millions of lives saved.

Democratic policy: Millions upon millions of lives killed. Oh put you get a free doctor visit.

It really does not add up in any substantive way in my open and still requires disregarding these lives.

 

[upant]

Not to debate you about whether whatever reason I or another might choose is what you consider a proportional reason.

I never asked that. I asked what you considered a proportionate reason.

You keep deflecting and now changed the goalpost

Just to make sure everyone knew that you are wrong about your interpretation of Church teaching.

I have stated my position with quotes from the FCFM, popes, lay people, and bishops, you just say I am misinterpreting it but offer no proof of my misinterpretation

Please enlighten me with an appropriate proportionate reason

 

[Billy76]

But what is the proportionate reasoning in the Democratic platform that is able to negate the millions of lives they advocate the murder for? You have yet to say.

 

[upant]

Right, so if I just give a reason,

That was my question in my first post. I asked what is a reason. Nothing has changed because no answer was given

You know where I and the popes, bishops, and priest I quoted stand. I am not alone in my position. If I am wrong, are they also?

 

[upant]

That is not Church teaching and you are misapplying the teaches of the Popes that they agree with you.

Is this priest also wrong, how many sources do you need?

For Catholics, There’s Only One Choice - Crisis Magazine

 

[upant]

your position seems to be that a Catholic cannot vote for a pro-choice politicians

I didn’t say that, they absolutely can if both candidates are pro-abortion. If not you need a proportionate reason. Very simple. This election has a pro-abortion (and a multiple of intrinsic evil policies) and a candidate who is pro-life. What is the proportionate reason?

Have you read and listened to the people I posted?

 

[upant]

course, I’m not sure how meaningful that is since you said in another thread

The postings of the popes are in official docs, it is not an off the cuff remark.

But you know the difference, so do the readers

 

[stpurl]

I am not making a straw man nor am I “browbeating you’. Nowhere did I say that a vote for Trump is a vote for God and a vote for anyone else a vote against God. I don’t know why you aren’t entertaining it because you are the one who made that strawman.

I’ll ask again, what is the proportionate reason to support the Democratic platform (I always stated Democratic platform, not “Biden”, just as I stated Republican platform, not “Trump”) and the loss of millions of innocent lives? What in the Republican platform is more ‘morally evil’ than the death of millions?

 

[upant]

Crisis magazine? The place that had an article about the “Deep Church” today. No.

Is the priest who wrote the article wrong? What is he wrong about. This was part of a homily he gave at mass from what I read.

you agree that you can vote for a ‘pro-choice’ candidate over a ‘pro-life’ candidate if there is a proportional reason?

Yes, in theory, if the pro-life candidate supports other intrinsic evils worse than abortion.
However, is there anything worse than the killing of 600,000 babies a year in this election for president? This is the question I have been asking

The readers know when one uses the Pope’s words selectively for partisan purposes as well.

The preeminent issue is abortion, we all know this. Are the bishops and priest that I have posted who agree with me also using the words for partisan purposes? Some are preaching from the pulpit.

Lest we forget, abortion isn’t the only intrinsic evil supported by Biden. He supports SSM, euthanasia, contraception, destroying the family, etc

 

[FrankFletcher]

You seem quite intent on ignoring my remarks. Enjoy your evening.

 

[stpurl]

I’m not ignoring them at all. I gave you credit for the strawman you raised.

 

[upant]

Then we are done here.

Oh well, I guess we will never know what the GOP supports that is worse than abortion.

I will end with a prayer

I pray, God have mercy on the aborted, accept them into your kingdom. Amen

 

[vz71]

No, the discussion was about viewpoints the whole time. .

We are still wondering what exactly the proportionate reasons are.
We have a laundry list of various evils that a vote for Biden will support.
What is so morally grave that opposing it allows at least tacit support for the other grave evils he supports?

In spite of your effort to change the goals here, the argument still remains.
It has for several days.

 

[stpurl]

I agree. If this is all about ‘viewpoints’, quite frankly, it’s a waste of time. Every ‘viewpoint’ or ‘value’ or whatever is all relative, right?

But if it’s about moral evil and moral good—and those have been mentioned throughout—it’s about more than a viewpoint. It’s about whether something is right or wrong. Right and wrong aren’t VIEWPOINTS, they are a matter of truth. A person doesn’t have a right or wrong ‘viewpoint’. Yet the focus here has been predominantly a hammering from one side that voting for the Democratic Party is not WRONG because there is some moral EVIL in the Republican Party platform that is WORSE than the moral evils (not ‘viewpoints’) in the Democratic Party.

The twisting away when asked to give a simple answer to the question: What is the moral evil in the Republican platform that is proportionally more grave than the slaughter of millions of innocent preborn children—is stunning. The attempts to move the goalposts, to turn this into a ‘viewpoint’ exercise, the disingenuous and slighting remarks implying that the questioner just ‘read the Voters guide’ (as if we hadn’t). . .just points up that there is no real moral evil in the Republican Party that outweighs the Democratic support for the slaughter of millions of preborn children. But that the supporters don’t want you to know that, as they have already for one reason or another determined to push the whole ‘abortion’ issue under the rug.

 

[upant]

Please critique the article and not the website

Pro-Choice is Pro-Genocide - Crisis Magazine

 

[Cathoholic]

FrankFletcher to Upant . . . .

It doesn’t seem like you’re open to being persuaded that there may actually be a proportionate reason so what’s the point?

Well Frank. Now is your chance to just SAY what IS proportionatly MORE important than the dismemberment and premeditated murder of (in 2017 according to Guttmacher) of 862,320 innocent people.

That will quiet @Upant.

So go ahead and tell 'em.

 

[FrankFletcher]

FrankFletcher to Upant . . . .

It doesn’t seem like you’re open to being persuaded that there may actually be a proportionate reason so what’s the point?

Hardly. Folks here who have attempted to have genuine conversation about this topic are in turn involved in an endless pseudo argument that really amounts to nothing more than gainsaying. I have no interest in joining them. Real dialogue requires listening and I don’t see much of that going on in these threads. I’m not even sure why the bulk of them exist – it’s certainly not so real conversations that might persuade or dissuade people might take place.