Want to get married, but don't want children

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jlc2k2 said:
We haven’t seen the worst of children? Honestly, you’re not making it easy to take you seriously. Do you think that I haven’t seen the worst of children while raising them?
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Then why are most people here being so dismissive of my concerns, saying I shouldn’t worry, and trying to convince me it’s some great thing and guilt-trip me for not agreeing with them?
 
Anicette said:
have willingly children
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Your requirement goes beyond what the Church requires.
Anicette said:
As for us, we have been asked directly by the priest if we want to have at least one or two children. Same in marriage preparation. Not if we will accepted them versus abortion.
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I’ve been asked things which go beyond what the Church says before. There is no “required number of children” or infertile persons would be denied marriage.
 
Better is to ask your priest for clear answers.

And to find the man who will accept to marry someone who don’t want to have children. No easy at all.
 
It is the nature of anonymous posting on line. I doubt that a ladies group at your parish would speak to you in such a way.
 
I don’t agree with you. I think you are wrong.

Nullity of marriages are recognized because of this reason. perhaps, even one the main reasons for nullity.

Of course there is no required number of children, but want to have at least one child, is the minimum versus no child.
I have not said or think that infertile or post menaupose couple will be denied marriage. But they are exception, not the general rules. And sterility is often don’t known before marriage. So, the vows and intentions are the same.
 
Well, you did post online. That’s generally going to invite some discussion. You also seem to have ideas about marriage and motherhood that don’t align with the experiences of people who have lived those things first hand. They are offering you an alternative perspective.
 
Diamond93 said:
If not wanting children is an impediment to a valid marriage within the Catholic Church, is there any other way in which I could get married outside of the Church yet still have the Church recognize my marriage as valid? Is such a thing possible? Because doesn’t the Catholic Church recognize other marriages outside of it as valid? If so, in which cases?
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Yes the Church recognizes that marriages outside the Church are valid as long as they have the characteristics of Marriage; fidelity, permanence and openess to fertility.

Even with a dispensation to marry outside the Church, a permant intention against children means that the party cannot validly consent to marriage. This is because one cannot exclude an essential element of marriage; one such element being openness to children.
 
Anicette said:
Nullity of marriages are recognized because of this reason. perhaps, even one the main reasons for nullity.
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A marriage may be found null because of a permanent intention against children. Our OP has stated that she will lovingly accept children, that if she becomes pregnant she will love and raise that child.

It is a strong temptation when we see someone with a different opinion, different way of thinking, to want to force them into our way of thinking. “How could any Catholic think or feel differently than I do about politics or social issues or etc.???” It is actually known as the “no true Scotsman” logical fallacy.

The Church does not require us to actively attempt pregnancy. The Church says that there can be reasons for that are just and serious that may apply to our whole married life. Your debate is with Pope Pius XII.

This is a young woman who is so concerned that she is willing to contemplate grave sin, marrying outside of the Church. Let that sink in. Do any of us want to be responsible because we were the “straw that broke the camel’s back” and drove this young lady away because we cannot imagine her fears?

How about pointing out the basic framework, suggesting some areas to study, and encouraging our OP that the Church does not shun her or think her strange.
 
I have ever read the document. It is nothing new.

The primary intention against children before the marriage is not “circonstances” in it.

And I don’t advise anybody who don’t want children to have some. Nor “impose”.
 
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The document is linked above. We cannot post the entire address here, so, sit down and read it. Note that the Holy Father noted that there are going to be some people for whom pregnancy would be detrimental and he advises these midwives:

the circumstances require an absolute “no,” that is to say, the exclusion of motherhood, it would be a mistake and a wrong to impose or advise a "yes."
 
Diamond93 said:
It seems to me like most of the people here live in a fantasy world with rainbows and unicorns who go on and on about how wonderful children are when they haven’t seen the worst side of them that I’ve seen. I feel like I’m always forced to see the worst in people, while everyone else goes on and lives their happy little sheltered lives ignorant of all the worst life has to offer, and yet I’m supposed to act just as carefree as them? I don’t think so. I feel like God expects too much out of me a lot of the time.
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I think most of us on this thread are actually parents. And yes, when you have children of your own you do see them at their worst. Anyone who has their own children is certainly not living in some kind of fantasy world.

God expects a lot out of all of us, no matter where we are in life. I don’t think anyone who has responded to your post is ignorant; on the contrary, many have lived lives as married people and also as parents. If you feel that you always see the worst in people, that sounds like something to work on.
 
I can only speak for myself. I am little concerned for you. You seem so over-the-top, and many or your posts contain a lot of hyperbole and worst case scenarios.

E.g., you say that most of the people here live in a fantasy world with rainbows and unicorns and go on and on about how wonderful children are when they haven’t seen the worst side of them that I’ve seen. (boldface is mine).

I wonder what you have seen. It sounds like something awful.

If so, I hope that you will seek counselling and help, as several posters have suggested.

Obviously, I am probably wrong and you really are a very well-adjusted, happy person who has experienced a peace-filled life. If so, please don’t hold it against me that I’m only trying to help you.

As for us “not seeing the worst side of them”–I know a lot of women, especially on this forum, HAVE “seen the worst side of them.,” although again, I do wonder what horror you have been through that you are certain that few other women have ever experienced. :cry: I’m so sorry.
 
Diamond93 said:
It seems to me like most of the people here live in a fantasy world with rainbows and unicorns who go on and on about how wonderful children are when they haven’t seen the worst side of them that I’ve seen.
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Actually, many of the people posting here are mothers who have experienced pregnancy, childbirth, and child rearing firsthand, all things you have not experienced.

I worked with kids a lot before I was married — teaching, Children’s Liturgy of the Word, VBS, summer reading programs, and experiences with family members. I thought it would prepare me for motherhood. It didn’t. Having kids of your own is a whole new thing in itself, something you really don’t know about until you actually experience it.
 
*This is a difficult thing to wrap your head around. I did not want to be a mother when I was 23-24. I wasn’t Catholic either and, while I wanted to get married, I figured it would never happen. I met my husband when I was 24 and knew I wanted to be a mother. I had changed my mind…mostly because I wanted to have his children, not because I, suddenly, had a burning desire to be a mother.
I’ve been married for 6 years with 3 children. NFP was ridiculous and I had 3 kids in 3.5 years. Two were conceived when we were desperately trying to avoid. We’ve figured out a way to avoid for the time being.
Pregnancy is no joke. It was something I had a very difficult time coming to terms with. I had difficult pregnancies, difficult and long births, and an incredibly difficult postpartum process that nearly broke me.
Pregnancy is not a magical time for a lot of women. It’s brutal and unforgiving…but the rewards are indescribable. Hormonally, women are programmed to accept the difficulties and remain open to more. It’s why oxytocin is so powerful.

In a perfect reality, your husband will be picking up all of the slack when you are pregnant. He will provide, take care of you, take on extra duties and fill in gaps. He will be sympathetic and wonderful.
This isn’t always the case. My husband was absent emotionally and mentally while I was pregnant and dealing with the PP period of my third child.
It amazes me that men are supposed to be the ones that are sacrificing and laying down their life for their families.
This may be true but women were literally giving up their lives for pregnancy and children.
It’s still the number one cause of death for women in developing countries.
Conditions such as Hemolytic disease if the fetus and newborn (HDFN), HELLP syndrome, preeclampsia, Gestational diabetes, and genetic conditions such as thalassemia…can kill women.
Luckily, we have prenatal care designed to catch these issues.

My opinion? Your fears and doubts are valid. Despite all of it…I really don’t think that are in line with church teaching. The purpose of marriage is to raise a family, whether you are able to or not…marital relations are meant to be ordered toward procreation. This is a direct part of precana.

Not everyone has an easy time with every aspect of church teaching. We all have our crosses. Mine happens to be NFP…it’s a major cross for me to bear…but I do my best with it because I know what the church teaches is true. My personal opinions and beliefs don’t always align with the church…and I’ve fought and fought it…but prayer and study have helped with acceptance.

Keep in mind…men want to be fathers. It’s hard lined into their DNA. If they are called to marriage they generally want a family…Catholic men in particular. It would be disengenous and cruel to enter into a marriage and outright deny your spouse something he would want…that is perfectly natural and within church teaching.

I don’t think you are immature or naive…I think you are passionate and don’t like the responses because they aren’t what you want to hear. I don’t think you are ready for marriage yet…and that is okay.
 
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At one point you actually said something to the effect that it is unfair God is doing this to you. If that is your belief, it is God you are wrestling and not us. It is Him you need to take this up with in prayer. You will find people who sympathize or feel how you have felt about children, but you are unlikely to find people here who will agree that God has been unfair to you.
 
1ke said:
You want the fantasy of marriage.
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That is one of the red flags we look for in pre-Cana, this idealized idea of marriage as some sort of romantic paridise.

Most of us who have been married for a while know that the days of romantic love tend to be fewer than the days of struggle or simply floating along in neither bliss nor struggle. Yes, children might make some days more difficult, but neither having nor not having children are guarantees of life long happiness.

The wisest thing I was ever told was that love is not a feeling, but a positive choice we make. I choose to love my wife and children even when I feel angry, sad, tired or dozens of other feelings.

The point being that external factors are not the drivers of our connection to those we love. It is a flight of fantasy to think that marriage is purely this romantic voyage where people are meant for each other. Most of us understand that many times you chose to love your spouse even when kicking them in the seat of their pants is what your passions urge you to do. 😉
 
Peeps said:
As for us “not seeing the worst side of them”–I know a lot of women, especially on this forum, HAVE “seen the worst side of them.,” although again, I do wonder what horror you have been through that you are certain that few other women have ever experienced. :cry: I’m so sorry.
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One of the kids I worked with had fetal alcohol syndrome and had experienced abuse in foster care. Anytime he got nervous or anxious or was told to do something he didn’t want to do, he would throw chairs around the room and threaten to kill himself. Another student would hit and bite me and my assistants when she got angry. My own cousin spent the better part of a year in a psychiatric hospital due to severe obsessive behaviors and thoughts augmented by autism.

None of this kept me from having my own kids, though.
 
Yup!
The honeymoon phase was brutally destroyed for us after our first unplanned pregnancy.
Then job loss happened…followed by another unplanned pregnancy…followed by a lot of marriage grinding and desperate attempts to just survive.
We’ve finally moved past that and are more comfortable…so the romantic love is back.
Our kids are older, money is less tight, there is a little bit less to stress about.

No way is marriage this wonderful , blissful existence filled with love, sex and a carefree existence.
 
Psalm30 said:
One of the kids I worked with had fetal alcohol syndrome and had experienced abuse in foster care. Anytime he got nervous or anxious or was told to do something he didn’t want to do, he would throw chairs around the room and threaten to kill himself. Another student would hit and bite me and my assistants when she got angry. My own cousin spent the better part of a year in a psychiatric hospital due to severe obsessive behaviors and thoughts augmented by autism.

None of this kept me from having my own kids, though.
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Then I will commend you and say that you’re a far braver soul than I’ll probably ever be. God bless you.
 
Look, I’m not Catholic, and I believe that couples who intend to remain childless can have a valid marriage. I would still say you’re not ready for marriage. You state: “I’m kind-hearted, I’m sincere, I’m loyal, and I’m very good at emphasizing with other people’s feelings, especially when they’re hurting. I always do extra kind deeds for people where I can as well, ie. doing extra chores around the house, taking on extra duties where I can, etc. I’m also very encouraging towards others when they’re feeling down.”

Empathy, encouragement, and hard work are great qualities, but they are best lived out when you’re willing to put others first. And I don’t think you are. You keep protesting you’re not selfish, but you say you don’t want to have children because doing so would greatly inconvenience you. This is selfish. It’s not a unique trait–it’s very common–but selfishness IS a huge impediment to marriage. This is something to work on before you get serious with a man.
 
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