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Tis_Bearself
Patron
I think it might just be the way you said it.
“I think I have qualities that would help me be a good wife” or " I feel much more confident about my ability to learn to be a good wife to the man I might marry" would have been reasonable. I realize that when we write things on the Internet, we don’t always do a perfect job of getting them into words. It did sort of come off like you thought you were Wife Material of the Year. A lot of people who post on here tend to come off like know-it-alls, so I’m sorry if I unfairly classed you in the same bin.
I don’t want to undermine your confidence in being able to be a wife. Any marriage needs to start with the two people being good spouses to each other. It’s definitely a learning experience though. Even if you knew the person a long time before marriage, being his wife is going to be different and there will be a lot of things for both of you to learn. Also, what you have to do to be a “good wife” beyond the basics like communication and faithfulness will vary with the person. So when you meet a person you might marry, you will learn partly from them what you need to do.
“I think I have qualities that would help me be a good wife” or " I feel much more confident about my ability to learn to be a good wife to the man I might marry" would have been reasonable. I realize that when we write things on the Internet, we don’t always do a perfect job of getting them into words. It did sort of come off like you thought you were Wife Material of the Year. A lot of people who post on here tend to come off like know-it-alls, so I’m sorry if I unfairly classed you in the same bin.
I don’t want to undermine your confidence in being able to be a wife. Any marriage needs to start with the two people being good spouses to each other. It’s definitely a learning experience though. Even if you knew the person a long time before marriage, being his wife is going to be different and there will be a lot of things for both of you to learn. Also, what you have to do to be a “good wife” beyond the basics like communication and faithfulness will vary with the person. So when you meet a person you might marry, you will learn partly from them what you need to do.
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Allegra
Guest
Thank you, Peeps. It bothers me to no end whenever I hear someone use a child like my precious girl as a reason to never have children. Yes, we have struggles. But she is a beautiful, happy child and has a wonderful life that brings joy to so many people. And at any rate, it’s HER life and no one else has the right to question her value because her body isn’t “perfect” in their eyes. Especially given the fact that very few leave this world with “perfect” bodies anyway. Illness and disability are part of life. Some people just experience it sooner than others. It doesn’t mean their life is less precious than others.
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Allegra
Guest
Mine is my mother.
My husband’s parents lived with us during the last stage of his dad’s battle with cancer, before he went into hospice. My mother-in-law was his caretaker, and a lot of the things she had to do were the same things you do for a child. She had to help him walk from one place to another. She had to escort him to the bathroom and help him use the toilet. He could not be left alone. She had to spoon feed him his meals. As the cancer progressed, he could no longer leave his bed, and she had to do things similar to changing diapers. He got grumpy and, yes, kind of childish at times, due to being in extreme pain. She had a tremendous amount of patience with him, but sometimes she would also lose her temper, same as a parent sometimes does with an obstinate child. My son was 1.5 years old at the time and going through a sleep regression and stage of separation anxiety. My mother-in-law and I would hear each other in the middle of the night. I would be up nearly every hour comforting a hysterically crying toddler; she would be up every hour comforting her husband who cried out in pain, checking to make sure he didn’t choke to death on his own puke. During the day, I would be grumpy from sleep deprivation, and she would be grumpy from sleep deprivation…probably more so than me, actually. She bought her own baby monitor to put in our guestroom where her husband was so she could hear him when he cried for help from wherever else she was in the house. She eventually hired a nurse to come to the house, but still did quite a bit of the work herself. She didn’t have much time to pursue her hobbies and interests; most of her time and energy went into caring for her husband. “Me time” was a rare luxury for her.
My husband commented, “You end up the way you start out — being spoon fed, having your diapers changed, not being able to walk, needing a ‘babysitter’…” Not everyone ends up this way, but it’s not outside of the realm of possibility that someone would have to do all the things you do for a child for their spouse, even if they never have children.
My husband commented, “You end up the way you start out — being spoon fed, having your diapers changed, not being able to walk, needing a ‘babysitter’…” Not everyone ends up this way, but it’s not outside of the realm of possibility that someone would have to do all the things you do for a child for their spouse, even if they never have children.
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TechieGuy
Guest
Maybe I missed this in the previous 140+ follow-ups, but, hey @Diamond93, why do you care if the Catholic Church recognizes your marriage or not?
Why not find the love of your life and get married by a Justice of the Peace or something?
Why not find the love of your life and get married by a Justice of the Peace or something?
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Diamond93
Guest
Because I am Catholic and I love my faith and God more than anything else in this world, even if I do struggle with the teaching on marriage on being open to children. Because I do want to have a valid marriage in the eyes of the Church. But my problem is the being open to children part. And that’s why I came here to get answers on it.
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TechieGuy
Guest
Well, okay, but do you have a plan for what you’re going to do with all that given that you cannot validly marry in the Church since you are not open to children?
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Diamond93
Guest
I’m going to commit it to prayer. And hopefully by the time I meet a man that I want to marry, I’ll be at the point where I’m “open to children,” even if I don’t necessarily want children. There is a difference between the two. I think I can get to the point where I’m open to kids, even if I don’t desire them per say. Given that I’m only 24 years old, I think I have plenty of time for this
.
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QwertyGirl
Guest
Parenting isn’t for everyone. I know many married couples who, by choice, remain childless and they have good marriages and happy lives. There is nothing wrong with you for not wanting children and for still wanting the loving relationship found in marriage.
Of course, that doesn’t line up well with Catholic teaching on marriage and families. That is a different issue. If you want to be Catholic, you should probably follow the religion with regards to these issues.
I just wanted to weigh in because I think a lot of people here are implying there is “something wrong with you”. I don’t think so.
Of course, that doesn’t line up well with Catholic teaching on marriage and families. That is a different issue. If you want to be Catholic, you should probably follow the religion with regards to these issues.
I just wanted to weigh in because I think a lot of people here are implying there is “something wrong with you”. I don’t think so.
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EnglishTeacher
Guest
Good for you on both of these counts. So many people decide that if they don’t like what the Church teaches about a particular topic, they will either ignore the teaching or leave the Church. Good for you for being honest about your struggle on this topic but ruling out the option of marriage outside the Church.
So I have just a few random thoughts on the subject that may or may not be helpful:
There is something about being deeply in love with a man that makes you want to have his children, even if you were indifferent to the idea of children before or weren’t all that fond of children in the abstract. Of course I don’t know you and can’t say for sure whether that will happen to you, but I think it is the natural “end” of love between a man and a woman. I was a bit like you in my early-to-mid-20s: While I wasn’t as completely opposed to having children as you seem to be
, I also was somewhat reluctant to the idea and hated the idea of pregnancy destroying my then fit-and-trim figure (embarrassing as that is to admit now) and feared the idea of children hampering my lifestyle. My view on the subject changed quite a bit over the next few years, though, as it does for many women; and I don’t think it’s at all impossible that it will change for you, too, even if you don’t think so now.I would also throw out the idea that as very young women, we take our fertility for granted. We assume that we will be able to have as many children as we want, or that we will have scores of children if we don’t do something to “prevent” it. (Not to mention, we forget that our potential husband’s fertility or lack thereof is half the equation.) But while there are some couples who are super fertile, it is actually much more common for women to unable to conceive as many children as they would like–or to be unable to conceive any at all.
One more thought, for what it’s worth: It is only due to very recent advances in medical science that a purposefully childless marriage is even a possibility. Even now when it is an option (though of course not what Catholics consider a moral one), it means constantly thwarting the body’s natural function through contraception (or else tons of abstinence if you are going the more “natural” route.) Marriage through the ages has always meant being open to the possibility of new life. While you know all of this of course, it may help to better understand that this is not the Catholic Church imposing an arbitrary rule–rather, it is essentially, at its core, what marriage is.
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Diamond93
Guest
Thank you for saying this. One thing that people on here keep telling me is how both marriage and parenthood require sacrifice, but as @Mike_from_NJ pointed out, the types of sacrifices are very different. As he said, there are some similarities, but the qualities needed to do the duties of marriage and parenthood are different in many ways. The essences may be the same, but the duties themselves are often very different. The duties for marriage I feel cut out for, not so much with motherhood.
But as I said and you repeated, because I want to follow my faith, I have a lot to think about.
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Clementine14
Guest
A lot of people have pointed out, though, that these duties are actually not that different. You may end up taking care of your husband or an in-law, changing diapers and waking up in the middle of the night. Dealing with dementia, or mental illness. A lot of people have pointed this out here, but you’ve ignored it.
In many ways, the sacrifices involved in caring for children are actually easier than learning how to sacrifice and love your spouse, an adult who already has his own ideas about things and who you’re not “in charge of”. A kid has to live where you say and in whatever place you decide. A husband gets to weigh in on these things, and it’s not always easy. A kid doesn’t get to have conversations with you about finances, or where to work, or what to do on Christmas. Marriage is a huge exercise in not getting your own way all the time. The specific tasks might not be exactly the same, but the exercises in sacrifice are really not different.
I think it’s perfectly normal to feel apprehensive about having children, and there isn’t anything wrong about not wanting them. But it does seem that your ideas of what it all involves are based on things you don’t know a whole lot about. Yes, pregnancy brings its own unique set of medical circumstances, but most pregnancies go fine. If you’ve worked in a children’s ER, your sample of children with “deformities, defects and diseases” was rather skewed. Parents of kids who aren’t perfectly healthy love their kids just as much as any other parent, and while I understand being afraid of these things, there’s no reason to be irrational about it. In any case, there’s no need to justify not wanting children, if you truly don’t want them. But it is worth understanding that the sacrifices involved in marriage and parenthood are really not that different.
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Mike_from_NJ
Guest
When this topic comes up every so often, this is the go-to response: A medical issue may arise wherein one spouse will have to take care of the other, much like one does with a child. And, yes, marriage is “in sickness and in health”. It is something one must accept as a possibility, but it is not a certainty as it is with raising a child. So, beside the go-to answer, what other aspects of marriage mirror that of parenting?
Sacrifice as a parent is not the same as sacrifice as a spouse. You mentioned how it is more difficult to sacrifice for a spouse than it is for a parent, but for some they may find that relationship more rewarding. A marriage is the most unique loving relationship a person can have. One doesn’t choose their parents. One doesn’t choose their children. Marriage involves two equals where each member not only chooses, but is chosen. It’s where they truly act as a team, where there is no default upper hand in settling disagreements, where give and take are absolutely necessary. Again, the sacrifices are quite different as a parent versus as a spouse.
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Peeps
Guest
Yes, I think that this conversation has been good for you and all of us.
I want to mention something else that I don’t think anyone has mentioned–you MAY be one of the lucky ones who has a baby who sleeps through the night from Day 1, never spits up, nurses only during the day every four hours (mine did that!), doesn’t have a cone head, smiles and giggles, reaches out to everyone who wants to hold them, snuggles like a friendly cat, and is quiet as a little doll in church!
I’ve known mothers and dads who have babies like this!
Of course, according to my parenting guru (Dr. James Dobson), often children who are compliant save their rebellion for their adult years!
I want to mention something else that I don’t think anyone has mentioned–you MAY be one of the lucky ones who has a baby who sleeps through the night from Day 1, never spits up, nurses only during the day every four hours (mine did that!), doesn’t have a cone head, smiles and giggles, reaches out to everyone who wants to hold them, snuggles like a friendly cat, and is quiet as a little doll in church!
I’ve known mothers and dads who have babies like this!
Of course, according to my parenting guru (Dr. James Dobson), often children who are compliant save their rebellion for their adult years!
It’s the go-to response because it’s true. I’ve seen it happen to my in-laws, my grandparents, and a close friend. It happened to my grandparents later in life (they were in their seventies), but my friend actually got married in his early twenties after his fiancée’s illness took place, knowing full well he would be the primary caretaker for the duration of the marriage. He had to give up his dream career to get a higher paying job with medical benefits, and he never got to finish the degree he was working on.
The OP has said she doesn’t want to have children because she doesn’t want to change diapers or be sleep deprived or not be able to pursue her own interests. It’s worth mentioning that those things may be necessary even in a marriage with no children, even if it’s not absolutely certain it will happen.
I do agree with this. I’ll be blunt: I love my husband more than my kids. Many will be shocked and pounce on me and say I’m a bad mother, but that’s how I feel. My love for my kids is completely unconditional and I’d leap through fire and water for them. But my husband is actually one with me. It’s because he and I love each other that the kids even exist. If all goes well, the kids will “fly from the nest” one day and lead their own lives, but my husband and I will still be man and wife. If one of us were to die, our kids would not be a satisfactory replacement. No one would. Husbands and wives have a comletely unique relationship.
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Clementine14
Guest
The response about taking care of a spouse is common because it happens all the time. If not one’s spouse, one’s in laws. Sometimes the literal physical aspects of caring for a non-child are not the same, but there are many other ways in which spouses sacrifice in the same ways. For example, a couple might have to work hard and spend money to add on space to their home for children, or for a mother in law who comes to live with them. (And frankly, a lot of the time the in-law situation involves a lot more sacrifice on the part of everyone.)
I agree that the spousal relationship is unique. However, the marital relationship can involve a lot of sacrifice and also be rewarding- it is precisely because of the nature of this relationship that it is so unique. That it is a unique relationship does not mean that it doesn’t involve the same kind of sacrifices in terms of putting others first. Both marriage and parenthood require constant self-giving. The OP does not seem to realize that marriage is not a fantasy romance, and that it involves a general giving of oneself that is in many ways more sacrificial than the sacrifices involved with children.
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Diamond93
Guest
OK, I acknowledge that yes, things like dementia, mental illness, etc. could happen in a marriage and change it. But even if stuff like dementia, Alzheimer’s, etc. did happen, it wouldn’t be until later in life most likely, and by then hopefully I’d be at a point where that wouldn’t bother me as I’d be older and have a changed mindset. I’m still young now, will be young for a while, and therefore will most likely have this mindset I have now for a while.
And yes, I’m acknowledging the differences you gave here over husband versus children conflicts. Your points are true, but I’m still just very averse to what I’d have to put my body through to get those children in the first place- pregnancy and childbirth. They both scare me, as I’ve said before, and yes I know they don’t last forever but they both sound so awful to me that even the short amount of time they are is more than I could handle.
I understand that you feel that way, and there’s nothing wrong with you for having the feelings you have. You shouldn’t be made to feel guilty because you think you wouldn’t be able to handle something.
As I mentioned before, my pregnancies were what I would consider easy. The worst thing that happened during both of them was gestational diabetes, and both times it was very a minor case, which I was able to control with diet and exercise (there was no need for insulin). My sister-in-law, on the other hand, had a terribly traumatic pregnancy with her first baby. She had a severe case of pre-eclampsia, hemorrhaged dangerously during her emergency C-section, and then was bedridden for weeks after the birth. She said, “I’m never doing this again!” soon afterward. But she later went on to have two more very planned babies, and things went much better both of those times. She still had to deal with high blood pressure issues, but her doctors monitored her closely, and the births and recovery periods went much more smoothly. She’s glad she has her three children, and considers everything she went through worth it to have them.
I’ll also point out that during the last pregnancy she held down a full time job while working on a graduate degree. She had a very supportive husband and hired some great nannies for the other two kids. And despite being very busy, she still made time for quality Mom-kid activities and was/is a great mother whose kids love and respect her. All is to say, motherhood doesn’t mean you have to give up everything else you want to do and that makes you happy. You may have to give them up for a little while but not forever. And many mothers feel the short time they had to stop pursuing their own interests to raise their kids was worth it.
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