Warnings about Harry Potter

[SaltySirena]

The one thing these HP threads so often ignore are the unavoidable facts that (a) the HP novels just aren’t terribly well-written and (b) the movies are even worse. HP may or may not be an evil influence, but it is certain that are more worthwhile books and movies to be consumed.

– Mark L. Chance.

I see this criticism alot. I will wholeheartedly agree that the movies are NOWHERE near as good as the books. At times, I get frustrated with the movies for leaving so much out. I am particulary bothered by how out of character Dumbledore is in the Goblet of Fire movie.

Anyway, I found this on another thread about Harry Potter, and I wonder, how do you who claim the series is badly written respond to this?

Mermaid_Mama:

For those who say the Potter series is badly written, I have a question. Are you saying that all the people who awarded Rowling’s writing so many prizes are wrong? Are you saying Stephen King is wrong? Cuz I kinda think that when Stephen King calls you an excellent writer… you ARE one! All the literary critics who love her writing… all the well-read people who love her books… they are ALL wrong? What are your credentials to say so? You can dislike the books… that’s personal preference. But to say she’s a bad writer, you should back that up, because the evidence argues otherwise.

Oh yeah, and Al Masetti, I am still waiting for you to give me examples of the “junk science” you’re claiming as the problem with Harry Potter.

Jea9, I think it is obvious that your niece lacks for good role models. But did it ever occur to you that she might just be a cynical teenager yanking your chain? Especially if you are one of those people who is really obvious about being religious, who talks a lot about it… teenagers are notorious for knowing exactly where people’s buttons are, and just what will set them off. Especially the teenagers who are neglected by their parents and have to learn to navigate the world on their own, becoming very street smart and good at reading people. If she knows that seeming to truly believe in witchcraft will upset you greatly, she may present that image just to get some attention and stir the pot.

 

[Joe_5859]

I see this criticism alot. I will wholeheartedly agree that the movies are NOWHERE near as good as the books. At times, I get frustrated with the movies for leaving so much out. I am particulary bothered by how out of character Dumbledore is in the Goblet of Fire movie.

Anyway, I found this on another thread about Harry Potter, and I wonder, how do you who claim the series is badly written respond to this?

Amy Welborn gives a few examples in an article she wrote. Of course, it was not the intent of her article to launch a comprehensive critique of Rowling’s writing style, but it does give some examples.

 

[SaltySirena]

Okay, I read the Welborn article. That’s only through Goblet of Fire. Order of the Phoenix was the one Stephen King gushed over… the one that came AFTER Goblet of Fire. I think Welborn’s hope that Rowling’s writing would return to its previous quality were met.

Maybe I am not a great reader, because these accusations of wordiness and useless filler padding out the length of the books don’t wash with me. BUT I am a person who enjoys detailed description and inner dialogue. I don’t necessarily NEED the plot tightly focused at all times, nor the book to speed along with no pauses, in order to enjoy it or for it to hold my attention. Frankly, I consider those who find introspection and detail boring and unnecessary to be shallow.

 

[shannyk]

Frankly, I consider those who find introspection and detail boring and unnecessary to be shallow.

lol. really?

 

[Jea9]

Jea9, I think it is obvious that your niece lacks for good role models. But did it ever occur to you that she might just be a cynical teenager yanking your chain? Especially if you are one of those people who is really obvious about being religious, who talks a lot about it… teenagers are notorious for knowing exactly where people’s buttons are, and just what will set them off. Especially the teenagers who are neglected by their parents and have to learn to navigate the world on their own, becoming very street smart and good at reading people. If she knows that seeming to truly believe in witchcraft will upset you greatly, she may present that image just to get some attention and stir the pot.

You may not have caught this in my first post in this thread…but I’m a convert. I am the ONLY Catholic in my family. At the time that this discussion happened I don’t think (trying to figure out time wise) I was religious. If I was any religion I may have been Mormon at the time…but all the Mormons I knew loved these books. I did too. I agree…anyone who says that these are poorly written must not have really read them. J.K. Rowling is an amazing author…she can pull you into a story immediately. But, back to my niece…no, I don’t think she was yanking my chain. First, because we aren’t close, she’d have NO reason to have any desire too and because I wasn’t religious at this time; second because she didn’t tell me all of it first hand. Some went through my step-sister, her aunt, who is the furthest thing from religious that you can imagine. And, again, I definitely think that she believes these things because of a SERIOUS lack of role models (see previous posts on her and my step-sister that’s her mother for specifics). I just think that if you have reason to believe that without serious precautions a child can take the wrong things from these books (any books, not just the HP books) then they really shouldn’t be ‘children’s books’.

Again, I do not think that people that read these w/ their kids, or watch the movies w/ their kids (or by themselves for that matter) are bad people…I’m just saying I think there is a risk to them. That’s all. From my own experience…w/ my own family.

 

[AmberDale]

Maybe I am not a great reader, because these accusations of wordiness and useless filler padding out the length of the books don’t wash with me. BUT I am a person who enjoys detailed description and inner dialogue. I don’t necessarily NEED the plot tightly focused at all times, nor the book to speed along with no pauses, in order to enjoy it or for it to hold my attention. Frankly, I consider those who find introspection and detail boring and unnecessary to be shallow.

That would be like saying J.R. Tolkien’s books are “wordy and filler”, all those descriptions he uses for Rivendell and other things.

In my opinion a good writer is someone who can suck people into their stories. Okay, that’s a good story teller…Anyway even if you are a good writer, if I’m not sucked into the story I’m not going to read it.

 

[mommamia]

Well written/not well written are matters of opinion. Its perfectly OK to disagree. Personally I love the Harry Potter books, but found LOTR to be boring, repetitive and too violent for my tastes. It doesn’t mean I think less of anyone for liking them.

As for “junk science” I am confused . Maybe all my advanced science degrees are somehow messing up my perception, but I don’t remember a single reference to anything that could even remotely be considered science in these books. They’re fantasy.

I’m not even going to get into the rest of the discussion. We all have our views and should try our best to respect each other, especially as the Church has not condemned the books.

 

[quasius]

I’m just taking a look at these fora, so I don’t know if this has been covered from this angel; but…

A geek’s perspective.

I’m a geek. I like/ have spent time with video games, anime, Dungeons and Dragons, fantasy lit, etc, etc. A lot of this has diminished in importance in my life as other priorities take shape, but I could still enjoy any of it.
I’m also a serious Catholic. The intersection of those sets is very small. I’ll even broaden it to “serious Christian and fantasy geek.” Still small.
I can say a big component of this is that most of these people feel like Christianity has no place for them. They’ve been told repeatedly that their love of fantasy and myth is inherently demonic. And then start to believe it and look elsewhere.
Myth and fantasy are powerful and evocative. They speak to deep longings to do great things and to be heroes. Like much evocative media (music springs to mind), this can be used for good or evil. I greatly admire Tolkien and C.S. Lewis for their ability to so beautifully incorporate Christianity into their myth and I hope to do something similar myself in another medium one day.
Please, please be careful telling people you have influence over that their enjoyment of fantasy is inherently evil- it may instead be the product of an amazing imagination. I’ve seen the destruction this attitude causes first-hand and feel lucky and blessed that I didn’t fall into that trap myself.

 

[GraceDK]

It seems to me that the books are pretty straight forward good verses evil stories, along with the whole coming of age storyline.

Witchcraft is just a genre, similiar to science fiction or fantasy. The witchcraft itself is not the main story line.

I think that these stories are as potentially corrupting as the tv series, “Bewitched!,” but far more entertaining.

I have actually read every book and seen every movie that is out. These are probably these cleanest movies about young adults that are out, and in addition, the major themes are about the power of love and friendship and the value of sacrifice for those that we love.

I am a fan, and I think that these stories are good.

I think this is an important post.
I remember the already sexual stuff I was reading when I was younger already at an age where I could have read other better things. That was before I moved to the Catholic school where sexual books were not around (I only later came to realise this) I liked books that had some fantasy in them, like one book about a witch who was evil and the main characters were young girls who were not witches
I could distinguish at that age 10-14, what was fiction and what was not.

 

[Rafaela]

Just to add my :twocents: : When I was a child I loved Narnia and LOTR, and I have read all seven of HP series, too. Granted, I would not let my child to read them before perhaps 12years of age, but I think it is again away to talk about topics with the child such as the good and evil. I think this is also an important point, and yes, I am going to see the movie when it comes to theaters here, and probably dragging my hubby with !!!

 

[sabriner]

I couldn’t help but post being a young person AND an “ex-avid” fan of the Harry Potter books.

I could see how they could become problematic.

1. There is the potential of actually practicing magic. Though the books themselves are nothing like an actual occult object like a Ouija board, casting spells and so forth are. Kids, even without knowing that the devil puts his foot in the door like that–ESPECIALLY without knowing–are susceptible to that kind of behavior. Of course, this really only goes bad if the parents aren’t being good parents (just like in any other situation).
2. The series can get highly addictive for youth! I was. I didn’t want to do ANYTHING except read them. Literally. That is also something to watch out for.
3. Ultimately, what it can lead to is worldliness. Our Lord asks us to live in the world but to not BE of the world.** I know people plead that these stories are good Christian allegories or similar (and in comparison to Tolkien and Lewis, they are barely…) and teach good morals, but I’m sure there are much better resources for catechesis???** To me, when reading the books growing up, it was more about living in a cool world with crazy little magical details and being with my friends all the time. Oh, and plot twists. Not about redemptive love.

There just seems to be better things to do with one’s time.

 

[Kitkateybug]

I’ve recently read two books on exorcisms, and they both warn about Harry Potter. Please, parents, don’t take your kids to see this movie, and keep these books out of your house. The devil is real, and he don’t play. Mary

I kinda want to know your fascination in exorcisms. And I know I’m not a mother, but I really wouldn’t appreciate some person telling me how to raise my kids and what not to own. I like to think it would be my choice.

…My opinion.

 

[Catholic90]

I kinda want to know your fascination in exorcisms. And I know I’m not a mother, but **I really wouldn’t appreciate some person telling me how to raise my kids and what not to own. I like to think it would be my choice. **

…My opinion.

YES! That is a perk of being a parent!! The PARENT gets to choose how to parent their own children and determine what is and is not appropriate for their kids!! I think if another person ever told me what I should or should not let my kids do, I would do the opposite! (not always, but if it was innocuous IMO).

 

[SaltySirena]

1. There is the potential of actually practicing magic. Though the books themselves are nothing like an actual occult object like a Ouija board, casting spells and so forth are. Kids, even without knowing that the devil puts his foot in the door like that–ESPECIALLY without knowing–are susceptible to that kind of behavior. Of course, this really only goes bad if the parents aren’t being good parents (just like in any other situation).

No, there REALLY isn’t!! Even if I could find someone to make me a “magic wand” I could go around crying “Scourgify” at my house all day long, and it’s not gonna get clean! I could Cruciate the lot of you to no effect at all! (How’s that for Christian, the spell used to torture and create pain refers to the Crucifixion!) I could point it at my friend, say “Levicorpus” and still her feet would stay on the ground. There is no real magic in the Harry Potter books. The spells are mostly Latin-inspired words that refer to what the spell does, thus “Patronus,” the protector spell that takes the form of Harry’s father (the stag he could transform into). Ask any practitioner of Wicca if kids are going to learn their practices from reading Harry Potter and they will likely laugh themselves breathless. Never mind that there IS no real magic, so how could anyone possibly “learn” any?!

1. The series can get highly addictive for youth! I was. I didn’t want to do ANYTHING except read them. Literally. That is also something to watch out for.

My oldest has read the series something like 7 times. I suppose you’re cringing in horror at that. Know what? Great books are like old friends. You visit them often, taking comfort in the familiar, sometimes learning something new. Often upon the second or third reading of a book, I will catch somethind I didn’t see before. I would bet you weren’t “addicted,” but that the books provided a fun escape, a comfortable way to spend time, and you indulged until that ran its course.

1. Ultimately, what it can lead to is worldliness. Our Lord asks us to live in the world but to not BE of the world.** I know people plead that these stories are good Christian allegories or similar (and in comparison to Tolkien and Lewis, they are barely…) and teach good morals, but I’m sure there are much better resources for catechesis???** To me, when reading the books growing up, it was more about living in a cool world with crazy little magical details and being with my friends all the time. Oh, and plot twists. Not about redemptive love.

No one is using these books for CATECHESIS! They are fantasy stories with a strong moral element that SUPPORT the values we teach. No one, when asked a question about the Faith, or morals, answers with, “Well, here in the Canon of Harry Potter, book 5, chapter 10, verse…” And, as someone else said upthread… what you personally took from the books does not change what they objectively ARE. Often, children learn best when they don’t realize there is a lesson at all.

 

[Catholic90]

No, there REALLY isn’t!! Even if I could find someone to make me a “magic wand” I could go around crying “Scourgify” at my house all day long, and it’s not gonna get clean! Wouldn’t that be awesome if it worked?? Unfortunately, it doesn’t…

My oldest has read the series something like 7 times. I suppose you’re cringing in horror at that. Know what? Great books are like old friends. You visit them often, taking comfort in the familiar, sometimes learning something new. Often upon the second or third reading of a book, I will catch somethind I didn’t see before. I would bet you weren’t “addicted,” but that the books provided a fun escape, a comfortable way to spend time, and you indulged until that ran its course.

:yup: My oldest is currently re-reading the book before he sees the movie at midnight on Tuesday. Tonight he is planning a movie marathon and wants to watch all the movies again leading up to this latest.

No one is using these books for CATECHESIS! They are fantasy stories with a strong moral element that SUPPORT the values we teach. No one, when asked a question about the Faith, or morals, answers with, “Well, here in the Canon of Harry Potter, book 5, chapter 10, verse…” And, as someone else said upthread… what you personally took from the books does not change what they objectively ARE. Often, children learn best when they don’t realize there is a lesson at all.
:yup: You are correct, on all counts.

 

[cecilia97]

Mary,

I can tell your concern is genuine and you mean only to help others. But many of us HAVE considered what the Holy Father and Fr. Amorth have to say. I’ve considered it, and I still don’t think Harry Potter is bad for me. Sadly, I have also seen and fought the Enemy…and he is not in Harry Potter books.

Is it bad for a child who has little parental guidance and wants to fill the God-shaped hole with fantasy power? Probably. But food can be used in place of God, too. Lots of things that are morally neutral or morally GOOD can be used for evil. We’d have to empty the earth to get rid of all the potential for bad.

Lord of the Rings has much more magic…even much more EVIL magic, and it was written by a faithful (and admired) Catholic, and it doesn’t get held to the standard some seem to push on Harry Potter books.

Did you know that HP can be read as a Christ allegory?

God bless you,

 

[Jea9]

No, there REALLY isn’t!! Even if I could find someone to make me a “magic wand” I could go around crying “Scourgify” at my house all day long, and it’s not gonna get clean! I could Cruciate the lot of you to no effect at all! (How’s that for Christian, the spell used to torture and create pain refers to the Crucifixion!) I could point it at my friend, say “Levicorpus” and still her feet would stay on the ground. There is no real magic in the Harry Potter books. The spells are mostly Latin-inspired words that refer to what the spell does, thus “Patronus,” the protector spell that takes the form of Harry’s father (the stag he could transform into). Ask any practitioner of Wicca if kids are going to learn their practices from reading Harry Potter and they will likely laugh themselves breathless. Never mind that there IS no real magic, so how could anyone possibly “learn” any?!

My oldest has read the series something like 7 times. I suppose you’re cringing in horror at that. Know what? Great books are like old friends. You visit them often, taking comfort in the familiar, sometimes learning something new. Often upon the second or third reading of a book, I will catch somethind I didn’t see before. I would bet you weren’t “addicted,” but that the books provided a fun escape, a comfortable way to spend time, and you indulged until that ran its course.

No one is using these books for CATECHESIS! They are fantasy stories with a strong moral element that SUPPORT the values we teach. No one, when asked a question about the Faith, or morals, answers with, “Well, here in the Canon of Harry Potter, book 5, chapter 10, verse…” And, as someone else said upthread… what you personally took from the books does not change what they objectively ARE. Often, children learn best when they don’t realize there is a lesson at all.

I think you are being incredibly defensive here. This YOUNG person is giving THEIR opinion of what happened to THEM…how can you deny that?!? You (general to all parents on here pointing out the good of HP not specific to you) continuously say that you don’t want someone telling you how to raise your kids or what not to let them read…how can you discount what this person says happened to them? Or what I say happened to my niece? BTW, I think the point that he/she was making w/ the spells is that it MIGHT create an unsafe fascination for witchcraft which MIGHT lead them to look for other sources. This person did not say that they think that if you try really hard these spells might work. I do not think that my niece performed any actual magic with them…but yes, I DO believe that there are books in which a person could learn how to do real spells and that they might develop an unnatural desire for learning it.

I don’t think that anyone is saying parents that let their kids watch these movies and read these books are bad parents. I think that the discussion is more that there is a risk to it. Well, I should say that is MY point.

As a side question, brought up when I was listening to my friends discuss their fascination w/ the Twilight series…will you parents allow your children (older, I hope) to read THIS series? Hmmm, maybe I should create a new thread on this…

 

[Catholic90]

I don’t think that anyone is saying parents that let their kids watch these movies and read these books are bad parents. I think that the discussion is more that there is a risk to it. Well, I should say that is MY point.

There is a risk to living. There is a risk driving to mass (you might get broadsided and die). Personally, for me and my kids, I see absolutely NO RISK in allowing them to read and watch the HP series. On the contrary, it really sparked their interest in the fantasy genre of books, and that sparked their desire to read more and more, and that developed their love of reading.

I abhor censorship. I hate it when someone else tells me what I and/or my kids should be able to read and/or watch. I am perfectly capable of deciding that for myself.

As a side question, brought up when I was listening to my friends discuss their fascination w/ the Twilight series…will you parents allow your children (older, I hope) to read THIS series? Hmmm, maybe I should create a new thread on this…

My kids are teen boys, so they have no desire to read this “chick” book, but if they wanted to, yes, I would allow them to.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

I couldn’t help but post being a young person AND an “ex-avid” fan of the Harry Potter books.

I could see how they could become problematic.

1. There is the potential of actually practicing magic. Though the books themselves are nothing like an actual occult object like a Ouija board, casting spells and so forth are. Kids, even without knowing that the devil puts his foot in the door like that–ESPECIALLY without knowing–are susceptible to that kind of behavior. Of course, this really only goes bad if the parents aren’t being good parents (just like in any other situation).

Following this logic then the devil has pretty much put his foot in the door with every other hobby. Obsession isn’t exclusive to fantasy novels you know.

Unless of course you would care to elaborate on this more?

1. The series can get highly addictive for youth! I was. I didn’t want to do ANYTHING except read them. Literally. That is also something to watch out for.

So? Just this week I had to mentally smack myself behind the head for spending too much time on one game where I played the role a Prince-turned-Overlord of the Underworld and then in another game (science-fiction MMORPG) where I piloted my own mecha and yet again when I spent too much time blogging here on CAF.

You wanna know what these three things had in common? I spent too much time on them instead of other things of higher priority (e.g. my homework >_>;; ). Still, it doesn’t make them exclusive to each of the individual activities. Any activity can be a potential obsession and time-waster (and I daresay this could even include religious activities).

1. Ultimately, what it can lead to is worldliness. Our Lord asks us to live in the world but to not BE of the world.** I know people plead that these stories are good Christian allegories or similar (and in comparison to Tolkien and Lewis, they are barely…) and teach good morals, but I’m sure there are much better resources for catechesis???** To me, when reading the books growing up, it was more about living in a cool world with crazy little magical details and being with my friends all the time. Oh, and plot twists. Not about redemptive love.

There just seems to be better things to do with one’s time.

You’re right that it’s not the Catechism. It’s a modern fairy-tale meant to entertain people while they kick back to unload the anxiety brought about by what the 21st century calls ‘everyday life’.

Besides, ‘better’ is a word I find that’s always open to interpretation. I highly doubt your definition of what is ‘better’ would satisfy my criteria for the word if this how you think about Harry Potter.

I’ve recently read two books on exorcisms, and they both warn about Harry Potter. Please, parents, don’t take your kids to see this movie, and keep these books out of your house. The devil is real, and he don’t play.

Sorry madam but I’m just as studious about exorcism as you are and I am in fact very familiar with Gabriel Amorth’s writings. The difference between what he calls occult and demonic and the enchanting phenomenon I’ve seen called fantasy magic is so large a gap, the Grand Canyon cannot even compare to it. I even wrote a thread about it.

 

[sabriner]

Sorry, my apologies. When I said “catechesis” it was more of a hyperbole or exaggeration to express the way a person might defend the good character of the books.

Of course these things are harmless in some cases where people are not vulnerable to whatever risks are there. But there are risks. Definitely right, parents DO have a right to what their kids read, watch, consume, etc. That’s why some people are giving their (name removed by moderator)ut, so that we can extract from that (name removed by moderator)ut and develop our ideas of what is good and what is not in certain cases and times. Some might feel strongly about what they’ve read or learned, and that might make them seem forceful, but either side understands that and so therefore also understand that no one is being coerced here (and it’s quite silly that there’s already developed “sides”).

I just hope that young people who read Harry Potter aren’t too involved (because I grew up knowing people my age who were unhealthily so) and are given inspiration to read much better literature. Kids are capable of a lot.

All I know is, our single goal is the salvation of souls. There’s nothing wrong with Harry Potter if it doesn’t impede our personal mission in that respect. But if it lets one adopt a lifestyle of unfocused leisure, then that is contrary to the Gospel. I know that this is the case for a lot of things, but considering that a book this lengthy (takes up a lot of one’s time) and very involving (people can get wrapped up in it easily) and the people I’ve actually seen unhealthily becoming obsessed with this particular subject, which is what we are specifically talking about, this is why I and others mentioned it.

On a side note, I did some reading on comparisons between Lewis, Tolkien, and Rowling for school and it’s very interesting how different the first two are from the latter. But that’s a whole other fascinating topic.