Warnings about Harry Potter

[Lost_Wanderer]

I know that this is the case for a lot of things, but considering that a book this lengthy (takes up a lot of one’s time) and very involving (people can get wrapped up in it easily) and the people I’ve actually seen unhealthily becoming obsessed with this particular subject, which is what we are specifically talking about, this is why I and others mentioned it.

Have you forgotten that the Bible is thick too? While Harry Potter is lengthy and thick, at least it doesn’t have individual verses and passages that demand the interpretation of scholars, philosophers, and religious authority. XD

 

[Jea9]

There is a risk to living. There is a risk driving to mass (you might get broadsided and die). Personally, for me and my kids, I see absolutely NO RISK in allowing them to read and watch the HP series. On the contrary, it really sparked their interest in the fantasy genre of books, and that sparked their desire to read more and more, and that developed their love of reading.

I abhor censorship. I hate it when someone else tells me what I and/or my kids should be able to read and/or watch. I am perfectly capable of deciding that for myself.

You are correct, and if I were broadsided but lived, everytime I passed that intersection I would feel uncomfortable and uneasy. That is ALL that I am saying…I–me, not you-- personally had an experience that involved someone I, personally–me–knew that these books affected in a negative way. For me, personally, I think that the risk is too great. Now, when I have children (God willing) I plan to wait until they are at an age (and it may be different for each child) where they are strong enough in their personal faith to be able to combat any temptations. Personally, I do not see this as censorship…I will tell my kids that while there may be some good to these books, there are books out there that will more satisfy their desire for fantasy and have a stronger Christian basis. AGAIN…I am NOT telling you what you should or should not do…that was NOT my reason for joining in this discussion. I wll assume that you are a good, Catholic parent who teaches your children the differences they need to know and has given your children all the weapons they need to arm their faith. I was merely giving my personal experience and thus, my PERSONAL reason for not reading them and not wanting any future children to read them.

Further, later in the series I think that they get very dark and are thus not good for younger children…I think that the movies had gotten much darker and scarier and, again, not the best for younger children. I think that when Harry and friends discover the opposite sex it becomes too much of a plot point…even before I was Christian and reading these I was uncomfortable with the focus of making out in whatever book it is w/ Ron and Hermoine. I do not even want to imagine that on the big screen. But, again, that’s my PERSONAL opinion…I am NOT telling anyone how to raise their kids or what is best for them.

 

[sabriner]

Have you forgotten that the Bible is thick too? While Harry Potter is lengthy and thick, at least it doesn’t have individual verses and passages that demand the interpretation of scholars, philosophers, and religious authority. XD

Exactly. Instead of reading Harry Potter, I could be reading the Bible.

 

[Jea9]

Exactly. Instead of reading Harry Potter, I could be reading the Bible.

Good point!!!

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Exactly. Instead of reading Harry Potter, I could be reading the Bible.

Good point!!!

Only if you’re the type to be entertained by stories like that or are currently looking for moral enlightenment.

Besides, you’re missing the point (or perhaps dodging it). Not only is the Bible thick, trying to understand the thing can lead to just as much an unhealthy obsession as someone who reads Harry Potter.

 

[sabriner]

maybe I’m missing something, but…

… why would being “obsessed” about the Bible be a bad thing? In what way would it be unhealthy? …

… I’m being honest. What do you mean by having an unhealthy obsession with the Bible?

I mean, unless you spent all absolutely all of your time neglecting other duties that God ordains to you… Because then at the very, very least you would have more knowledge of Sacred Scripture and be inspired to do those things…

And there are some really entertaining stories in there, plot twists, interesting facts, even more fascinating than what Rowling has invented

… Okay, if I’m starting to defend the fact that the Bible is a better read than Harry Potter, then should I even continue…?

 

[Catholic90]

maybe I’m missing something, but…

… why would being “obsessed” about the Bible be a bad thing? In what way would it be unhealthy? …

… I’m being honest. What do you mean by having an unhealthy obsession with the Bible?

I mean, unless you spent all absolutely all of your time neglecting other duties that God ordains to you… Because then at the very, very least you would have more knowledge of Sacred Scripture and be inspired to do those things…

And there are some really entertaining stories in there, plot twists, interesting facts, even more fascinating than what Rowling has invented

… Okay, if I’m starting to defend the fact that the Bible is a better read than Harry Potter, then should I even continue…?

ANYTHING can become an unhealthy obsession, INCLUDING the Bible and religion. If all someone does is read the Bible and does not attend to other duties, then it is an unhealthy thing.
Having more knowledge does not always equate to being more inspired to follow something…there are countless atheists who are very knowledgeable of Scripture, but do not follow it…

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

maybe I’m missing something, but…

… why would being “obsessed” about the Bible be a bad thing? In what way would it be unhealthy? …

… I’m being honest. What do you mean by having an unhealthy obsession with the Bible?

I mean, unless you spent all absolutely all of your time neglecting other duties that God ordains to you… Because then at the very, very least you would have more knowledge of Sacred Scripture and be inspired to do those things…

That’s exactly what I’m saying, plus there’s more. When one thinks about, the Bible can be the most ambiguous book than any fictional novel can ever be. It has both history and allegory, the literal and the metaphorical, it’s a maze that people spend years trying to navigate and unravel. The many ways people quote, compare, contrast, and argue over scripture is clear evidence of that. Tell me, unless you don’t read the Bible for the sake of understanding the Truth in it, does a difficult book like that something you wanna read at the end of a long day at the office or after sitting an excruciating amount of hours in class? I doubt it.

If it helps, you might also want to know that it was because of this obsession with the Bible that a certain German clergyman spawned the mess we know today as Protestantism and the heresy of Sola Scriptura.

And there are some really entertaining stories in there, plot twists, interesting facts, even more fascinating than what Rowling has invented

… Okay, if I’m starting to defend the fact that the Bible is a better read than Harry Potter, then should I even continue…?

Not from where I’m standing. The Bible’s good as a moral guide. As a book for entertainment, it is just average at best.

 

[sabriner]

Tell me, unless you don’t read the Bible for the sake of understanding the Truth in it, does a difficult book like that something you wanna read at the end of a long day at the office or after sitting an excruciating amount of hours in class? I doubt it.

If it helps, you might also want to know that it was because of this obsession with the Bible that a certain German clergyman spawned the mess we know today as Protestantism and the heresy of Sola Scriptura.

The Bible’s good as a moral guide. As a book for entertainment, it is just average at best.

hmmm. It was also because of the obsession with the Bible that certain Protestants convert to the Catholic faith, because they spent a great amount of time studying Church history and what scripture REALLY had to say about Tradition, worship, etc. Also, many wonderful people like Edith Stein, Mother Teresa of Calcutta, Therese of Liseux, John of the Cross, or Faustina Kowalska were obsessed with the Word of God. It was actually their entire life. “Ignorance of scripture is ignorance of Christ,” as St. Jerome said.

Of course, so were Marxists (who pulled from St. Luke’s Acts) and Fundamentalists, and even the devil knows scripture as well. But I’m pretty sure all the saints knew how to combat their (their=Marxists, etc.) ignorance and perversion of scripture because they spent all their lives reading and studying scripture and not through extensive leisure time…

And, after a long days’ work, I would really enjoy combating those evils and temptations with a lot of help from the words of the Holy Spirit, who “has spoken through the prophets” rather than escaping into a fantasy world or something, which would be running away from my problems (which I used to do, and is still a temptation for me, as for everyone.)

Also, with faith in the Holy Spirit to inspire our imagination, the Bible stories are insanely entertaining. After all, Jesus used parables to explain his lesson, to kind of condescend to our level. Jesus wasn’t without hyperbole or humor. The Bible is essential to our understanding of morals, but it isn’t dry, it isn’t without joy, as God is the source of all joy.

 

[Nanny_PK]

Most of my opinions have already been expressed in earlier posts, but I’ll throw my two cents in anyway – and for the record, I’m not a parent.

I think the worry over the book is overstated. I think it is up to each parent to decide for themselves what their minor children should or should not read. I personally have not read the HP books – not for any reason other than the fact that they just do not interest me. I tend to not like to watch movies or read books when there’s an excessive amount of hype because I’m usually disappointed. However, if I did have children who showed an interest, I would certainly read them to discern if I thought my children were mature enough to be able to understand the fiction of the books. The same with the movies, I would watch it first and then decide whether my child should see it or not.

For those parents who do not want their children to see or read it, I have upmost respect for their opinion; for those who do allow it, the same reasoning goes. I would hope that the parents who do not want their children to see it or read it would do so based on fact and not a preconceived notion of what they think it is about.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

hmmm. It was also because of the obsession with the Bible that certain Protestants convert to the Catholic faith, because they spent a great amount of time studying Church history and what scripture REALLY had to say about Tradition, worship, etc. Also, many wonderful people like Edith Stein, Mother Teresa of Calcutta, Therese of Liseux, John of the Cross, or Faustina Kowalska were obsessed with the Word of God. It was actually their entire life. “Ignorance of scripture is ignorance of Christ,” as St. Jerome said.

Of course, so were Marxists (who pulled from St. Luke’s Acts) and Fundamentalists, and even the devil knows scripture as well. But I’m pretty sure all the saints knew how to combat their (their=Marxists, etc.) ignorance and perversion of scripture because they spent all their lives reading and studying scripture and not through extensive leisure time…

Funny, ignorance and perversion is pretty much what they other side would call what those people did with Scripture.

And, after a long days’ work, I would really enjoy combating those evils and temptations with a lot of help from the words of the Holy Spirit, who “has spoken through the prophets” rather than escaping into a fantasy world or something, which would be running away from my problems (which I used to do, and is still a temptation for me, as for everyone.)

It’s not running away when you come back. What you call escapism is actually the act of taking a breath of fresh air. And what’s this talk about evils and temptations? I’m talking about stress. Stress is neither. It’s a sickness. Entertainment is the cure. Besides, if we’re going to compare to which makes a better distraction from temptation I say both are on par for it’s people who determine which distracts them more. A person could very well just sink further into despair because just the mere thought of avoidance and resistance (which pretty much what the Bible only says about in combating sin) exhausts him. But, give him something that completely frees his mind altogether to keep himself from dwelling upon such temptation is a better alternative any day.

Also, with faith in the Holy Spirit to inspire our imagination, the Bible stories are insanely entertaining. After all, Jesus used parables to explain his lesson, to kind of condescend to our level. Jesus wasn’t without hyperbole or humor. The Bible is essential to our understanding of morals, but it isn’t dry, it isn’t without joy, as God is the source of all joy.

Please, the only thing I find inspiring to my imagination are the Ten Plagues and the Book of Revelations and even these have been assimilated in fantasy fiction.(You have skills in RPGs like Locust Swarm and Fire Pillar. Terms like Armageddon and Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse have inspired various concepts.) However, what percentage do such things make of the Bible? 10%? The parables have as much entertainment value as Aesop’s fables. Insightful? Yes? Entertaining? Only if you’re in preschool.

 

[erigby27]

JK Rowling should definitely clarify to her younger readers that this is fantasy. When I was much younger I pointed at my dog and said “wingardium leviosa” and she floated up to the ceiling. What a pickle. It took me forever to get her down. If Rowling had been a little clearer I might have been spared that predicament and the subsequent scolding I received from my parents!

 

[Catholic90]

JK Rowling should definitely clarify to her younger readers that this is fantasy. When I was much younger I pointed at my dog and said “wingardium leviosa” and she floated up to the ceiling. What a pickle. It took me forever to get her down. If Rowling had been a little clearer I might have been spared that predicament and the subsequent scolding I received from my parents!

 

[sabriner]

Lost Wanderer, it’s sad to see a lack of awe in Sacred Scripture. Most people our generation feel like it’s just some old ancient book full of esoteric stuff and rules, when there is so much to unlock and learn. And what more, the Bible is a real thing and not fiction (though there are some stories in there that are), which makes it even more fascinating. The fact that God wrote that Bible (through people) just for me at times exactly when I needed it AND for others’ specific needs is a lot more comforting than any game, book of fiction, hobby, etc. “Come to me, all you that labour, and are burdened, and I will refresh you. Take up my yoke upon you, and learn of me, because I am meek, and humble of heart: and you shall find rest to your souls.” Of course there is a time for entertainment, but it isn’t for times of trouble or even stress (which comes from trials and temptation). Whatever happened to redemptive suffering anyway??

It’s no wonder people have the misconception that Catholics don’t read the Bible.

I dunno. That’s just my two cents on what the Bible is to me…

 

[cyberwolf001]

As a Pagan I must say if these spells worked like they did in the book I’d never have to work another day in my life… To bad they don’t…

I also like Amy Welborn’s assesment of the series (however incomplete it is given that it was written between the release of books 4 and 5 in the series):

I wonder how this lady would feel if we Pagans talked about her faith that way…

So…how did the traveling to England through his chimney work for the guy? Please report back!

I would LOVE to know what spells they performed from Harry Potter. Please call your niece and find out! Where does she get her wands? Is there a unicorn hair in the center of hers? How about her boyfriend’s?

Agreed I needs to know also. My Book of Shadows needs some SERIOUS updatin’ all these years I been working to go to New Jersey and I justed needed some poweder and a chimney…

I suck as a Witch and Druid it appears.

Following this logic then the devil has pretty much put his foot in the door with every other hobby. Obsession isn’t exclusive to fantasy novels you know.

Unless of course you would care to elaborate on this more?

It is true that because of this it seems 90% of Conservative Christians are terrified of any and everything outside of Church, it’s really what’s helped Paganism grow so fast. Embracing and adapting things that most Christians are utterly freaked out by.

So? Just this week I had to mentally smack myself behind the head for spending too much time on one game where I played the role a Prince-turned-Overlord of the Underworld and then in another game (science-fiction MMORPG) where I piloted my own mecha and yet again when I spent too much time blogging here on CAF.

NEW GAMES THANKS! :dancing: :extrahappy:

JK Rowling should definitely clarify to her younger readers that this is fantasy. When I was much younger I pointed at my dog and said “wingardium leviosa” and she floated up to the ceiling. What a pickle. It took me forever to get her down. If Rowling had been a little clearer I might have been spared that predicament and the subsequent scolding I received from my parents!

LOL man reminds me of the time I blew up a couple of members of the Legion of Mary when they came knocking on my door. I just painted them both red and tied a long to them and a tree for a yard sale ^.^ (An if that offended you ask yourselves how you’d feel if it had been Mormons or JWs)

Lost Wanderer, it’s sad to see a lack of awe in Sacred Scripture. Most people our generation feel like it’s just some old ancient book full of esoteric stuff and rules, when there is so much to unlock and learn. And what more, the Bible is a real thing and not fiction (though there are some stories in there that are), which makes it even more fascinating. The fact that God wrote that Bible (through people) just for me at times exactly when I needed it AND for others’ specific needs is a lot more comforting than any game, book of fiction, hobby, etc. “Come to me, all you that labour, and are burdened, and I will refresh you. Take up my yoke upon you, and learn of me, because I am meek, and humble of heart: and you shall find rest to your souls.” Of course there is a time for entertainment, but it isn’t for times of trouble or even stress (which comes from trials and temptation). Whatever happened to redemptive suffering anyway??

It’s no wonder people have the misconception that Catholics don’t read the Bible.

I dunno. That’s just my two cents on what the Bible is to me…

You forgot dull, repeats over and over. Filled with all kinds of inaccuraces and attrocities and morally disgusting acts (Job offering his daughters to a rape mob anyone?) and the list goes on and on.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Lost Wanderer, it’s sad to see a lack of awe in Sacred Scripture. Most people our generation feel like it’s just some old ancient book full of esoteric stuff and rules, when there is so much to unlock and learn.

Haven’t you been reading what I said? I actually believe the same about the Bible. Still, just because there’s insight and truth it doesn’t mean it’s going to replace my PC or my PSP when I’m bored. A science textbook can teach me the truths of physics and biology when I need such knowledge for stuff like exams correct? If I needed moral guidance and insight what do you think I should turn to? The Bible. The Catechism. Papal Enyclicals. I certainly don’t turn to fictional works like Harry Potter.

And what more, the Bible is a real thing and not fiction (though there are some stories in there that are), which makes it even more fascinating. The fact that God wrote that Bible (through people) just for me at times exactly when I needed it AND for others’ specific needs is a lot more comforting than any game, book of fiction, hobby, etc. “Come to me, all you that labour, and are burdened, and I will refresh you. Take up my yoke upon you, and learn of me, because I am meek, and humble of heart: and you shall find rest to your souls.”

…I dunno. That’s just my two cents on what the Bible is to me…

Note: To you. You’re just one of those special people who feel comforted by religious activities and material. Not everyone has to be like you nor does that make them better or worse than you. We all just have different tastes.

Of course there is a time for entertainment, but it isn’t for times of trouble or even stress (which comes from trials and temptation). Whatever happened to redemptive suffering anyway??

Stress isn’t the same as trouble. What kind of logic has led you to assume that? :ehh: Stress is nothing more than exhaustion. Fatigue. Weariness from work. Different people have different ways to relax and kick back. Some take a nice hot bath, others drink their worries away, gamers such as myself let it out via competition (Eat this noob!! D8< pumps laser lead in enemy mecha’s gut)
sabriner;5435945:

It’s no wonder people have the misconception that Catholics don’t read the Bible.

Pff, I could care less about what Bible thumpers and fundamentalists have to say about Catholics and the Bible. Why do you think I reject Sola Scriptura so much? It spawns prudish and killjoy mentalities the likes which would make Jack Chick cry “Hallelujah!”.

 

[Joe_5859]

Okay, I read the Welborn article. That’s only through Goblet of Fire. Order of the Phoenix was the one Stephen King gushed over… the one that came AFTER Goblet of Fire. I think Welborn’s hope that Rowling’s writing would return to its previous quality were met.

Maybe I am not a great reader, because these accusations of wordiness and useless filler padding out the length of the books don’t wash with me. BUT I am a person who enjoys detailed description and inner dialogue. I don’t necessarily NEED the plot tightly focused at all times, nor the book to speed along with no pauses, in order to enjoy it or for it to hold my attention. Frankly, I consider those who find introspection and detail boring and unnecessary to be shallow.

Fair enough. I haven’t made it that far into the series yet myself.

In these discussions of popular fiction (whether it’s Potter, or the Da Vinci Code, or the Left Behind Series, or His Dark Materials, or The Shack, etc., etc.) it seems that the conversation always takes similar shape. You have some people arguing it is evil and demonic, even though it is well-written and engaging. Then you have others saying “It’s just fiction, people!!!”. Then there are others who chime in saying, “We don’t even have to worry about whether or not the book is evil because the writer is a hack.”

I think that there is the temptation to take pot shots at such popular books by criticizing the writing chops of the author. It could very well be true, but it is often tangential to the discussion taking place. In general, I think different people have different tastes in what constitutes good writing. You bring up a good point to consider. What seems like empty “filler” for one person constitutes depth of detail for someone else. I guess it depends upon your perspective.

Whatever one thinks, though, it is undeniable that Rowling has successfully captured the imaginations of millions and millions of people with her books. So whether or not she has the literary style of Shakespeare seems almost beside the point. You can’t pull off something like she has done if you don’t have some skill as a writer.

 

[Bluegoat]

I would be interested in seeing those who think that Harry Potter is somehow Satanic make the same argument for the Narnia books. Of course many fundamentalists do this but I haven’t seen it hear yet. Based on the arguments given, they should apply just as well to Lewis’ works.

I do agree the books are terribly written. Every stylistic writing cliche one could imagine.

If my kids want to read fantasy, I’ve got lots of much better stuff available for them, better plots, characters, writing, and general insight. Narnia, anything by Ursula LeGuin, the Wrinkle in Time series, anything by Tolkien, Charlie and the Chocolate Factory… I even think Philip Pullman is actually much more thoughtful and better written for an older reader.

 

[Brooklyn]

If my kids want to read fantasy, I’ve got lots of much better stuff available for them, better plots, characters, writing, and general insight. Narnia, anything by Ursula LeGuin, the Wrinkle in Time series, anything by Tolkien, Charlie and the Chocolate Factory… I even think Philip Pullman is actually much more thoughtful and better written for an older reader.

Did you know that Philip Pullman is virulently anti-Catholic? The whole purpose of his books is to tear down the Catholic Church. The Catholic League, Bill Donohue, here in New York waged a major campaign against “The Golden Compass” when it came out on film. Please don’t let your kids near his books.

“New Line Cinema and Scholastic Entertainment have paired to produce ‘The Golden Compass,’ a children’s fantasy that is based on the first book of a trilogy by militant English atheist Philip Pullman. The trilogy, His Dark Materials, was written to promote atheism and denigrate Christianity, especially Roman Catholicism. The target audience is children and adolescents. Each book becomes progressively more aggressive in its denigration of Christianity and promotion of atheism: The Subtle Knife is more provocative than The Golden Compass and The Amber Spyglass is the most in-your-face assault on Christian sensibilities of the three volumes.

“Atheism for kids. That is what Philip Pullman sells.

The link for this is catholicleague.org/release.php?id=1342

Mary

 

[Teen4Christ]

Are people really still fighting over this?

Harry potter is harmless fiction. We should be fighting violence and poverty, the true horrors of the world. Not some wizard.