Warnings about Harry Potter

[shannyk]

I cannot speak for you or anyone else, but I tend to believe those who have real life experience with demons. What would it take to convince you?

Mary

Brooklyn I respect very much these holy priests who have real life experience with demons and appreciate very much their perspective. However, I have to wonder if they have any real life experience with HP. I mean, have they read even bits of the books? Or are they making these assertions based on what they’ve heard (dare I say in evangelical circles…)? Is it possible that maybe because of their real life experiences with demons, they have somewhat knee jerk rash reactions to anything that is said to involve ‘witchcraft’ spells and the like?

I’m not even a fan of the books, I think they’re boring, wordy in a bad way, and overrated. But my daughter loves them. I made a point to read the first one before I’d even let her, and have read some (admittedly not all ) of the subsequent books before she’s read them just to make sure they’re OK. Admittedly, there are elements that can be taken out of context and made to seem…bad, but the same can be said for scripture. Context is important to understanding HP, and I’m not sure these priests have that understanding.:twocents:

 

[Brooklyn]

Brooklyn I respect very much these holy priests who have real life experience with demons and appreciate very much their perspective. However, I have to wonder if they have any real life experience with HP. I mean, have they read even bits of the books?

Harry Potter is a fictional character, coming from someone’s imagnation. So “real life” doesn’t fit here. But I understand what you are saying, and the fact that these priests give actual examples from the books, such as the casting of spells and other episodes, I would have to conclude that they have read the books. These priests say that many of the spells and other occult teachings in these books are very real and very dangerous.

I just don’t understand how good Catholics can just discount what these exorcists are saying. Obviously the Harry Potter books are very entertaining and really draw in the reader, but if good devout Catholic men of God are warning against them, why doesn’t that cause bells to go off in people’s head? The Bible says we don’t fight against flesh and blood but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms (Ephesians 6:12). I didn’t make this up either, it was written by the Apostle Paul.

Your arguments are not against me, because these are not my opinions. Please stop and think who you are really fighting against.

Mary

 

[Joe_5859]

I just don’t understand how good Catholics can just discount what these exorcists are saying. Obviously the Harry Potter books are very entertaining and really draw in the reader, but if good devout Catholic men of God are warning against them, why doesn’t that cause bells to go off in people’s head?

Two years ago, I would have agreed with you 100%. What changed things for me was encountering a priest who was very holy, orthodox in his beliefs, and totally devoted to the liturgy who absolutely loved Harry Potter. He talked about all the elements of Christianity within the books. I was extremely skeptical, for the reasons you have mentioned (I love Fr. Amorth and Michael O’Brien and had no reason to disagree with their examination).

But I also did not doubt the devotion of my priest friend, so I finally decided to read up on it myself. I checked out the movies from the library and read what the “other side” was saying in books and articles. I also started reading the books myself. In light of this, I changed my mind and came to believe that the books were not as dangerous as I initially supposed.

Now, I don’t want to come off as dismissive or condescending. (I always hate it when “converts” from one position to another on some particular topic patronize me by assuming I’ll “figure it out someday” simply because they once believed as I do but later changed their mind.) I only want to share my experience to offer you an explanation as to why the alarm bells are no longer going off in my head.

 

[TeresaAnn]

Well, we can use two of my sons as a test case if you want. My 14 and 13 year old sons went to the opening night last night all decked out with red mousse in their hair (they dressed as Ron’s twin brothers) with a group of friends also dressed up. They had a hoot!

I asked my 13 yr old this morning. So, the movie was good? Yes, it was awwesome… He says. I ask, so do you feel POSSESSED BY DEMONS? He looks at me… one eyebrow up WHAT??? and laughs (it didn’t look like an evil cackle to me). I ask, so do you want to be a WIZARD spookily… He raises the eyebrow again and says… ya Mom, maybe if I was a druggie. Duh… I’m A WIZZZZARD!!!

That’s all I have so far. I’ll ask the 14 yr old later ( I’ll watch my back until then, don’t worry):knight2:

EDIT: I just asked the 14yr old!

So, the movie was good? Ya…He says. I ask, so do you feel POSSESSED BY DEMONS? Um, sure. I ask, so do you want to be a WIZARD spookily… He says Well ya Mom, yeesh… everyone wants to be a Wizard. Then he cackled!!!:bigyikes:

Ok, now what do I do!!!

 

[Brooklyn]

Two years ago, I would have agreed with you 100%. What changed things for me was encountering a priest who was very holy, orthodox in his beliefs, and totally devoted to the liturgy who absolutely loved Harry Potter.

One priest changing his mind, for whatever reason, discounts many other priests who are intimately familiar with demonism and the causes of it? That wouldn’t be enough for me. I have to go with those who have first hand experience. There are many priests, too, who don’t even acknowledge demonism and possession.

I don’t know the priest you’re talking about, obviously, so I can’t comment on him. But I still have to go with those who are on the front lines. Not to argue, just to give you something to think about.

Mary

 

[estesbob]

Man, am I getting tired of these sidelong comments about how I am a bad Christian, or neglecting my faith, because I speak out against the ridiculosity people heap upon the Harry Potter stories.

Harry Potter is important to me, OK? There, I said it. I am an avid reader, and any story that gives me as much enjoyment as the Harry Potter books is going to become precious to me. I feel the same way about The Red Tent by Anita Diamant, several Anne Rice books (yes, yes, now I know you’re all swooning… I must be a pagan if I like Anne Rice!), many Arthur C. Clarke books (that raging atheist?! shocking). I could go on and on. Books are like people to me… the best ones become good friends. So yes, I get passionate in their defense. And before anyone tells me to seek help, yes I have human friends, family, a devoted spouse and children who love me. I am not some hermit who only communes with books.

Now, I know the Bible well. I don’t go around quoting chapter and verse, and have to look things up. I could improve my knowledge of Scripture… but so can anyone. The RE director at my church thought I was OK enough to lead Scripture discussions with the sixth graders last year, so, I must not be that lackadaisical of a Catholic. But in discussing the Bible, I can usually tell you what it says on a certain topic and find the citation when I want it.

I also have stood up for my faith, publicly and privately. I don’t allow my non-Catholic family members to get away with anti-Catholic bigotry in my presence. How many of *you *have the backbone to tell your own father, or his wife, to knock it off when it needs saying? Hmmmmm? I remember one “evangelizing” discussion I had in a cafeteria kitchen with a friend/coworker in college. He knew I was Catholic and asked me some stuff. I did my best to explain. I made a good impression upon him of Catholics that night. I don’t know what he ever did with that, but at least I know that if someone told him all Catholics were hateful bastards, he had that night to know that no, we all aren’t. I also told off a guy in my workplace for loudly disparaging the Catholic Church, and people “stupid enough” to be religious at all.

I really don’t understand why one thing has to mean anything about the other. Yeah, I love my Harry Potter books. And I love my faith too. I don’t understand why you people think they are mutually exclusive. What inadequacy in you causes you to have to repeatedly accuse someone of neglecting Christ just because they like and enjoy something you don’t?

I am a big Harry Potter fan , have read all the books at least three times and will be seeing the latest Movie tonight. If people dont like Harry Potter fine. But the idea that this is a litmus test of ones sincerity as a Catholic OR that the Church has in any way condemend the books and /or movies is specious.

Other than the night I accidently turned my wife into a ferret I have had no negative experiences from Reading the books or seeing the movies.

 

[estesbob]

. He raises the eyebrow again and says… ya Mom, maybe if I was a druggie. Duh… I’m A WIZZZZARD!!!

That’s all I have so far. I’ll ask the 14 yr old later ( I’ll watch my back until then, don’t worry):knight2:

Ok, now what do I do!!!

Personally my greatest ambition is to be the teacher of efense Aganst the Dark Arts at Hogwarts-unfortunately the Owl has not shown up yet.

If I were in your shoes i would fervently pray he does become a Wizard. it pays good and their only overhead is a wand and a robe.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

I cannot speak for you or anyone else, but I tend to believe those who have real life experience with demons. What would it take to convince you?

Mary

Actual logical argumentation for starters that proves that engaging in fantasy are explicitly opening doors to demonic influence.

 

[Brooklyn]

I am a big Harry Potter fan , have read all the books at least three times and will be seeing the latest Movie tonight. If people dont like Harry Potter fine. But the idea that this is a litmus test of ones sincerity as a Catholic OR that the Church has in any way condemend the books and /or movies is specious.

NO ONE is saying that your feelings about the Harry Potter books are a litmus test of your sincerity as a Catholic. In fact, I think a good portion of Catholics, especially those on this forum, who seem so devoted to Harry Potter are very good Catholics. But I am trying to post warnings from official exorcists of the Catholic Church who have warned us that these are very dangerous books, and that Harry Potter books are one of many causes of the rise in demonism around the world.

Please tell me why you will not even consider what these priests are saying. I ask that quite sincerely. If someone told me that the teachings of the Catholic Church were bogus, I would get very upset. But why does it literally upset and enrage people when they are told that a fictional book may not be a good thing? Why won’t you even consider that there may be something to this? Again, I am not giving my opinion, but those of good Catholic priests. You’ve got to come up with something better than “they haven’t read the books”, because their statements certainly seem to indicate that they have read at least some of the books to know what they are talking about.

I implore you to think about this for the sake of your’s and your kids’ spiritual lives.

Mary

 

[estesbob]

NO ONE is saying that your feelings about the Harry Potter books are a litmus test of your sincerity as a Catholic. In fact, I think a good portion of Catholics, especially those on this forum, who seem so devoted to Harry Potter are very good Catholics. But I am trying to post warnings from official exorcists of the Catholic Church who have warned us that these are very dangerous books, and that Harry Potter books are one of many causes of the rise in demonism around the world.

Please tell me why you will not even consider what these priests are saying. I ask that quite sincerely. If someone told me that the teachings of the Catholic Church were bogus, I would get very upset. But why does it literally upset and enrage people when they are told that a fictional book may not be a good thing? Why won’t you even consider that there may be something to this? Again, I am not giving my opinion, but those of good Catholic priests. You’ve got to come up with something better than “they haven’t read the books”, because their statements certainly seem to indicate that they have read at least some of the books to know what they are talking about.

I implore you to think about this for the sake your’s and your kids’ spiritual lives.

Mary

I did consider what the small handful of Priests are saying and have determined they are dead wrong. My wifes and kids spiritual lives are great but thank you for your concern.

 

[Brooklyn]

Actual logical argumentation for starters that proves that engaging in fantasy are explicitly opening doors to demonic influence.

See my prior posts for quotes and links, if you’re really interested. God bless.

Mary

 

[iluvmybabies]

My opinion on the HP series is this:

They were created to entertain people, you sit down with your family, friends, loved ones, etc to watch and spend some quality time together enjoying an entertaining book or film. You may discuss it later how it affected you emotionally-like my son says “It’s awesome that good defeats evil!” Or like my daughter says “I like their outfits I think they are cute!!!” But as for us it gives us another reason, besides prayer and church, to come together, sit down and spend time together like when we sit down to watch “Bridge to Taribithia” OR “Chronicles of Narnia!” We don’t take it as a “real” part of our lives, it’s just to keep us entertained and amused as a family together…Nothing else nothing more…

I mean it’s even a great story of emotional feelings because because there are kids that feel like Harry Potter, like they have huge responsibilities and not much help, but still HP is able to make it. Gives the kids the hope that “hey maybe I can make it too!”

Just like songs, there are some songs that make kids relate to them, and they feel that they can do it too as long as they have parental supervision on what songs they listen to and have the parent’s explain the facts that such movies are NOT REAL… I don’t understand why it would cause any problems when even my 6 year old doesn’t go around and saying things like “I am going to go fight evil with my white magic!” First of all I have explained to them that the only “magic” there is comes from GOD’s love in the form of the Holy Spirit… And sure that there is “magic” in the world, such as love and Santa, but the main magic is GOD above all…So as long as you can help your children understand that the only true love and magic is GOD I don’t see why there should be any problem?

I don’t stop taking my kids to see these movies because then if that’s the case then we shouldn’t see any movies at all…

So enjoy your family time and time with your friends and enjoy the entertaining movie, I saw the previews and man it looks interesting!! Can’t wait to see it, GOD BLESS!

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

These priests say that many of the spells and other occult teachings in these books are very real and very dangerous.

Lady, please, I think you might also need to think about who you’re speaking for. Taking a stick, waving it around, and spouting dog latin isn’t going to cause anything to fly around or burst into flames. If I could actually do that then I’m not really sure if would’ve been still sitting here in my cafe living my average (if not, boring) life and not going on some crazy fantasy adventure the likes of which gamers and writers alike could only dream of.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

See my prior posts for quotes and links, if you’re really interested. God bless.

Mary

I have, and frankly, they make no better sense than what the fundamentalists are saying. This article of yours in particular, is in fact dangerously leaning towards their type of thinking that things such as engaging in fantasy (be it via enjoying fantasy novels or playing RPGs) are dangerous.

 

[shannyk]

Harry Potter is a fictional character, coming from someone’s imagnation. So “real life” doesn’t fit here. But I understand what you are saying, and the fact that these priests give actual examples from the books, such as the casting of spells and other episodes, I would have to conclude that they have read the books. These priests say that many of the spells and other occult teachings in these books are very real and very dangerous.

I just don’t understand how good Catholics can just discount what these exorcists are saying. Obviously the Harry Potter books are very entertaining and really draw in the reader, but if good devout Catholic men of God are warning against them, why doesn’t that cause bells to go off in people’s head? The Bible says we don’t fight against flesh and blood but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms (Ephesians 6:12). I didn’t make this up either, it was written by the Apostle Paul.

Your arguments are not against me, because these are not my opinions. Please stop and think who you are really fighting against.

Mary

I think you misread my post. And I’m not fighting anyone.

If you read my post you’d know that I DID heed warnings about HP, that’s why I read the books before I allowed my daughter to. She’d actually wanted to read them long before and i wouldn’t allow her, based on what turns out to be bad information IMHO.

I heeding the warnings and decided for myself that they are harmless for me and for my child. Maybe not all children of all ages should be reading them, but that is for parents to decide.

A warning is just that, not a direct order or command. We are free to disagree with priests and while it may be wise to heed their advice a majority of the time, priests have been known to be wrong, like any human being. These warnings are not infallible teachings. They are not Bishops orders either (i.e. Medjugorje which people continue to disobey). Advice is always free for us to take or leave.

As for the good Catholic comment, I will let that one go…

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

EDIT: I just asked the 14yr old!

So, the movie was good? Ya…He says. I ask, so do you feel POSSESSED BY DEMONS? Um, sure. I ask, so do you want to be a WIZARD spookily… He says Well ya Mom, yeesh… everyone wants to be a Wizard. Then he cackled!!!:bigyikes:

Ok, now what do I do!!!

He speaks the truth! evil laugh
Tell him though that if he ever plans on going on some wild RPG-style adventure he should take someone from the local parish with him. Church-trained clerics with holy healing skills beat wizard Healers any day in my opinion.

 

[Contarini]

Also, the astrology class that the students have with the centaur (who is portrayed as wise and strong) puts astrology in too much of a positive light.

She got that bit straight out of the Chronicles of Narnia!

Edwin

 

[adstrinity]

But astrology is part of Divination in the books. Trelawny has them do star charts of their births, and tells Harry he must have been born under the “baleful influence of Saturn.”

Astronomy is one of their more serious subjects… and surely you have no problem with that?

But, Trelawny is inept and a fraud. Nobody takes her seriously. I gathered that the tea readings and stars from her class were things to be weary of because they do not work as divination and could scarecely be called magic.

You will have to forgive my imprecision on this subject and try to understand the reasoning for my criticisms. I’m not the type to rant about this stuff or get obsessed over it, but I just wanted to express my worry that some of those things like potions are too easily imitable. Also, the astrology class that the students have with the centaur (who is portrayed as wise and strong) puts astrology in too much of a positive light.

But, The Centaur Teacher dismisses what Trelawny has taught them and says that the stars are hard to read and that he doens’t expect his human students to get it and sometimes even the Centaurs get things wrong.

You can easily deal with that by taking into account just how many fictional stories out there that are set in what appears to be our ‘real world’. It only mirrors the stuff that already exists but adds impossible elements.I mean you don’t really believe Gotham City or Batman are real do you? :ehh:

Of course not! Bruce Wayne is real; Batman is his alter ego! Duh.

Harry Potter is a fictional character, coming from someone’s imagnation. So “real life” doesn’t fit here. But I understand what you are saying, and the fact that these priests give actual examples from the books, such as the casting of spells and other episodes, I would have to conclude that they have read the books. These priests say that many of the spells and other occult teachings in these books are very real and very dangerous.

Give me an example of the examples the priests use, please. Show me where they show which spell is demonic. Thank you.

Two years ago, I would have agreed with you 100%. What changed things for me was encountering a priest who was very holy, orthodox in his beliefs, and totally devoted to the liturgy who absolutely loved Harry Potter. He talked about all the elements of Christianity within the books. I was extremely skeptical, for the reasons you have mentioned (I love Fr. Amorth and Michael O’Brien and had no reason to disagree with their examination).

This part could have been posted by me, except, instead of a devout priest, it was…actor Gary Oldman…BUT I hate posts like these because as God fearing people, we want to believe this, which is most unfortunate because posts like the original thread starter is complete and utter ballocks.

Is there a thread started about the movie elsewhere in this forums? Who wants to discuss the movie?!! Saw it, yesterday!

 

[Brooklyn]

Lady, please, I think you might also need to think about who you’re speaking for. Taking a stick, waving it around, and spouting dog latin isn’t going to cause anything to fly around or burst into flames. If I could actually do that then I’m not really sure if would’ve been still sitting here in my cafe living my average (if not, boring) life and not going on some crazy fantasy adventure the likes of which gamers and writers alike could only dream of.

Following Christ is never boring - it is sometimes frustrating (fighting ourselves mostly), sometimes (and usually) very difficult, but always a grand adventure learning and experiencing new and beautiful teachings with a wonderful ending if we stay on the right path. But it is never, never boring. If I find myself bored, I know I am doing something wrong. I don’t need the life of a wizard to “get my kicks.”

Lady a/k/a Mary

 

[Joe_5859]

One priest changing his mind, for whatever reason, discounts many other priests who are intimately familiar with demonism and the causes of it? That wouldn’t be enough for me. I have to go with those who have first hand experience. There are many priests, too, who don’t even acknowledge demonism and possession.

I don’t know the priest you’re talking about, obviously, so I can’t comment on him. But I still have to go with those who are on the front lines. Not to argue, just to give you something to think about.

Mary

Well, no. That’s why I said I was still skeptical and started to look into it myself (by watching the movies, reading the books, and reading what other people were saying in direct response to these criticisms). This one priest was the impetus for my delving deeper but was not the sole cause of me changing my mind.

(Just an aside, this one priest is 100% in conformity with his acceptance of the Church’s teaching. He acknowledges the existince of demons, the possibility of posession and adheres to the Church’s teaching regarding the immorality of divination and the like.)