Was Baha'u'llah a Saint ?

[arthra]

Eddie posted above:

I may have missed it, but what reason do the bahai missionaries who post here give for why a person should reject what Jesus taught the twelve apostles and replacing it with the teachings of bab and Bahaullah?

Baha’is generally don’t use the term “missionaries” and I wouldn’t myself claim to be a missionary. Baha’is accept Jesus as you know … but maybe not in the same way you do… For us God spoke through Jesus to humanity… The understanding of people at the time Jesus walked the earth was likely rather limited…

When Paul and Barnabas passed through a certain area as missionaries… The people thought they were Hermes and Zeus! Re. Acts 14:12 Is it so difficult then to suggest that people thought Jesus was God… We Baha’is believe Jesus was the closest to God for the people of His time…

 

[eddie_too]

I was not referring to “people”. I was referring to the twelve Jesus spent three years with continuously training, educating and preparing them to preach His Gospel.

what the masses did and believed during and following Jesus life does not impact on Jesus’ decision to use apostolic succession as the means for ensuring every generation to follow Him would have access to Him and the truths He revealed.

saying the apostles were wrong because people are often wrong does not provide sufficient reason to believe that Jesus did not ensure His Gospel was appropriately taught over the last two millennium by the apostles and their successors.

the idea that there are people believing wrong things all of the time (which is true) has nothing to do with whether the successors to the apostles are teaching the wrong things as the bahai, among many others teach.

 

[eddie_too]

again someone uses the time-honored technique of creating a “red herring” to attack another rather than to use the actual statement.

in response to my writing that we do not know everything Jesus taught the twelve during the three years He lived constantly with them, someone made up the following and attributed it to me, “According to you nobody else knows what Jesus said to the Apostles”.

anyone who wants to learn what Jesus taught the twelve apostles may do so by observing and studying the teachings of the RC magisterium, the successors to the apostles.

Jesus spent three years personally educating, explaining and training the twelve. the twelve and their successors, the RC bishops, share what Jesus gave to them freely to anyone who wishes to know.

choosing between two options: 1) everything Jesus taught the twelve over those three years is written in the new testament; and, 2) only some of those teachings were put in to writing in the new testament;, should be quite easy for a variety of reasons.

one reason would be that it is humanly impossible to put in to a few hundred pages everything that happened to Jesus and the apostles during those three years. the apostle john states as much in his new testament gospel.

another reason would be that the apostles realized that their understanding of Jesus’ teachings and training grew as their lives progressed and the twelve did not want to squelch that growth in understanding by restricting the true meaning of Jesus to what could be found in a book.

having stated that what Jesus taught the apostles caused them to grow in knowledge, wisdom and understanding in no way implies that they did not know what they were saying or that they made up what they were saying when they taught and preached that Jesus was an Incarnation (not a manifestation) of the Supreme Being.

i reject completely the very concepts that 1) the twelve did not know whether or not Jesus was God or claimed to be God; and 2) that the apostles made Jesus divinity up out of thin air. of all people alive at the time, jewish people were most aware of what a belief that God became man signified.

 

[Linusthe2nd]

If you’re referring to my reference to ancient Egyptian religions I know judaism didn’t spring from them.

It was added to maintain sentence synergy.

But there is no doubt that Christianity was considered a heretical sect of Judaism.

.

And who said that Christianity was a heretical sect of Judaism?

I have three questions for you.

1. Have you read the Bible?
2. Have you read the Catechism of the Catholic Church?
3. Why did you become a Ba’hai?

Linus2nd

 

[Servant19]

And who said that Christianity was a heretical sect of Judaism?

I have three questions for you.

1. Have you read the Bible?
2. Have you read the Catechism of the Catholic Church?
3. Why did you become a Ba’hai?

Linus2nd

And who said that Christianity was a heretical sect of Judaism?

Jewish Christians were amongst the earliest Christians. These were considered by Jews as a heresy.

members.bib-arch.org/publication.asp?PubID=BSBA&Volume=38&Issue=6&ArticleID=7

I have three questions for you.

1. Have you read the Bible? Yes
2. Have you read the Catechism of the Catholic Church? Yes
3. Why did you become a Ba’hai?

Because I sincerely believe after studying the Holy Scriptures of many global religions, that Baha’u’llah is the Return of Jesus Christ coming in the Glory of the Father.

This is our Judgement Day and I want to be saved…

.

 

[Techno2000]

And who said that Christianity was a heretical sect of Judaism?

Jewish Christians were amongst the earliest Christians. These were considered by Jews as a heresy.

members.bib-arch.org/publication.asp?PubID=BSBA&Volume=38&Issue=6&ArticleID=7

I have three questions for you.

1. Have you read the Bible? Yes
2. Have you read the Catechism of the Catholic Church? Yes
3. Why did you become a Ba’hai?

Because I sincerely believe after studying the Holy Scriptures of many global religions, that Baha’u’llah is the Return of Jesus Christ coming in the Glory of the Father.

This is our Judgement Day and I want to be saved…

.

Saved from what you don’t Believe in a Devil or a Hell ?

 

[Servant19]

Saved from what you don’t Believe in a Devil or a Hell ?

I use the word “saved” in Christian forums often.

In Baha’i teachings, hell is described as a condition of the soul which is very distant from God.

“God is over there, and I am over here, and I can see that it is AWESOME over there, but I was too attached to my own desires, rather than God’s desires, so now I am stuck over here…AAAAAARGGGGHHHHHH!”

That’s hell…

I wanna be saved from that…
…and I am, I know that I am, because heaven is available to me in this life. I feel it, experience it and witness it every day. Without Baha’u’llah my life would be hell, trust me…I see with my own eyes.

.

 

[Techno2000]

I use the word “saved” in Christian forums often.

In Baha’i teachings, hell is described as a condition of the soul which is very distant from God.

“God is over there, and I am over here, and I can see that it is AWESOME over there, but I was too attached to my own desires, rather than God’s desires, so now I am stuck over here…AAAAAARGGGGHHHHHH!”

That’s hell…

I wanna be saved from that…
…and I am, I know that I am, because heaven is available to me in this life. I feel it, experience it and witness it every day. Without Baha’u’llah my life would be hell, trust me…I see with my own eyes.

.

So to you… Hell is not being of the same mind of Baha’u’llah ?

 

[Servant19]

So to you… Hell is not being of the same mind of Baha’u’llah ?

Yes, that’s one way to put it

.

 

[Techno2000]

Yes, that’s one way to put it

.

But what if the mind of Baha’u’llah was wrong ?

 

[Servant19]

But what if the mind of Baha’u’llah was wrong ?

How can the mind of some one who tells you to

"let your heart burn with loving kindness for all who may cross your path"

and to "possess a pure, kindly and radiant heart"

and to "Abide not but in the rose-garden of the spirit…dwell not save on the mount of faithfulness"

and "Know thou that when the Son of Man yielded up His breath to God, the whole creation wept with a great weeping"

…could possibly be wrong?

.

 

[GaryTaylor]

Of course he was wrong, he was completely of the carnal world, no clue of the supernatural and called it delusion, he wrote poetry based on philosophy and various theology.

Hes like a college athlete, you keep telling them how good they are and they believe they are God sent next. A product of our own creation.

Then it is evident that all evils return to nonexistence. Good exists; evil is nonexistent.

God who can’t be know is “good”, no proof of supernatural, but unidentified “carnal” good of which we have no universal moral law. “He denied the one the only God gave”

Whats good for Baha’i

 

[Techno2000]

How can the mind of some one who tells you to

"let your heart burn with loving kindness for all who may cross your path"

and to "possess a pure, kindly and radiant heart"

and to "Abide not but in the rose-garden of the spirit…dwell not save on the mount of faithfulness"

and "Know thou that when the Son of Man yielded up His breath to God, the whole creation wept with a great weeping"

…could possibly be wrong?

.

dwell not save on the mount of faithfulness"

 

[Servant19]

Of course he was wrong, he was completely of the carnal world, no clue of the supernatural and called it delusion, he wrote poetry based on philosophy and various theology.

Hes like a college athlete, you keep telling them how good they are and they believe they are God sent next. A product of our own creation.

God who can’t be know is “good”, no proof of supernatural, but unidentified “carnal” good of which we have no universal moral law. “He denied the one the only God gave”

Whats good for Baha’i

Baha’u’llah has in no way denied Jesus.

He states:

Know thou that when the Son of Man yielded up His breath to God, the whole creation wept with a great weeping. By sacrificing Himself, however, a fresh capacity was infused into all created things. Its evidences, as witnessed in all the peoples of the earth, are now manifest before thee. The deepest wisdom which the sages have uttered, the profoundest learning which any mind hath unfolded, the arts which the ablest hands have produced, the influence exerted by the most potent of rulers, are but manifestations of the quickening power released by His transcendent, His all-pervasive, and resplendent Spirit.

He never stated that we cannot know God. To know and to love God is our purpose as human beings.

He stated that we cannot comprehend the Essence of God.

Gary, you are making up your own conclusions.



.

 

[GaryTaylor]

How can the mind of some one who tells you to

"let your heart burn with loving kindness for all who may cross your path"

and to "possess a pure, kindly and radiant heart"

and to "Abide not but in the rose-garden of the spirit…dwell not save on the mount of faithfulness"

and "Know thou that when the Son of Man yielded up His breath to God, the whole creation wept with a great weeping"

…could possibly be wrong?

.

Kahlil Gibran wrote as much as well as hundreds of other poets.

google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CB4QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.katsandogz.com%2Fgibran.html&ei=RQuIVNvgF8W1ggT884Io&usg=AFQjCNGxVBUBJ_CpKXvIGWf12CnvQ81rtg&bvm=bv.81456516,d.eXY

And he called himself a prophet!!!

 

[Servant19]

dwell not save on the mount of faithfulness"

When there is faith, you allow the light of God to glorify your soul with His grace. Without faith, you are denying yourself from the full measure of grace available to you.

He uses the word “mount” to symbolize the top of a mountain, where there is no shade. The Light of God is resplendent upon you.

Thats where we should always dwell…

Its remarkably beautiful…I see God in every single Word

.

 

[Servant19]

Kahlil Gibran wrote as much as well as hundreds of other poets.

google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CB4QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.katsandogz.com%2Fgibran.html&ei=RQuIVNvgF8W1ggT884Io&usg=AFQjCNGxVBUBJ_CpKXvIGWf12CnvQ81rtg&bvm=bv.81456516,d.eXY

And he called himself a prophet!!!

Actually Kahlil Gibran wrote his work called “Prophet” based on Abdu’l-Baha.

Abdu’l-Baha was Gibran’s beloved. He loved Abdu’l-Baha dearly according to the diary of his close friend Juliet Thompson.



.

 

[Techno2000]

When there is faith, you allow the light of God to glorify your soul with His grace. Without faith, you are denying yourself from the full measure of grace available to you.

He uses the word “mount” to symbolize the top of a mountain, where there is no shade. The Light of God is resplendent upon you.

Thats where we should always dwell…

Its remarkably beautiful…I see God in every single Word

.

What does…dwell not save …mean ?

 

[GaryTaylor]

Baha’u’llah has in no way denied Jesus.

He states:

He never stated that we cannot know God. To know and to love God is our purpose as human beings.

He stated that we cannot comprehend the Essence of God.

Gary, you are making up your own conclusions.



.

He denied the Incarnate word of God and still does, and he and you are making up YOUR own conclusions based on denial of what you cannot know, but insist you KNOW about the incarnation. And I can twist Baha’i words all day long? Isn’t that what you do? Of course it is. You don’t accept the only authority there is in regards to scripture. Why do you expect others to accept yours?

 

[GaryTaylor]

To know and to love God is our purpose as human beings.

Good is God of which there is no understanding of Good, its illusive. Whats good? Thus you cannot know God.