Was Hitler a Catholic?

[ccav]

Racer X:

If Hitler had any real religious sentiment, it was to Teutonic paganism. It is no accident that their flag bore the swastika, an ancient Teutonic symbol. (Yes, other ancient peoples had swastikas too, but that has nothing to do with why Nazis used it.)

For as much as a person may or may not like the History channel, for what it is worth they did a program on the Hitler and the Nazi party. One of the early members of the Nazi party, according to the History channel, spent alot of time in the far east and experienced the eastern mysticism cults there. I believe his name was Ernst Pretzsche, but can not remember for certain. He helped model the Nazi party after the style of those cults using Teutonic legends as a base rather then far east legends.

I know some people don’t care for the History channel, but I thought this was worth noteing.

 

[Carl]

ccav

Did the History Channel point out that Hitler was a fan of the “God is dead” philosopher Nietzsche?

Eastern mysticism or not, Hitler was an atheist.

 

[BobCatholic]

Hitler was a politician.

In front of his atheist buddies, he denounced Christianity. In Mein Kampf, he said he was an atheist.

In front of the Christians, he played the Christian Card, acting all Christian and such.

Is He a Catholic? Let’s see. “By their fruits shall you know them” is a good way to judge. His fruits were evil? Definitely not Catholic or any other kind of Christian.

 

[Newvert]

“Catholic” means “member of the Catholic Church”. By that defintion, Hitler was a Catholic. He was never excommunicated.

Making statements of that kind of course imply “Hitler was evil → Hitler was Catholic → Catholics are evil”. And that’s utter nonsense. Boy, I have heard that one before: “Hitler was evil → Hitler was an atheist → atheists are evil”. Replace Hitler with Stalin.

Hello AnAtheist,

Your “syllogism” above well illustrates your point, and even if Hitler were, say, a regular at Eucharistic Adoration, it still would not invalidate Christianity (as Stalin couldn’t invalidated Atheism, even if he wore a really big hat with the word atheist on it). However, are you certain Hitler could be considered a Catholic according to your tautological definition?

As I was given to understand, all nazis were excommunicated in 1930 or 1932. While he wasn’t mentioned specifically and I can’t fully vouch for that information, wouldn’t it mean he was no longer Catholic.

 

[ccav]

Carl:

ccav

Did the History Channel point out that Hitler was a fan of the “God is dead” philosopher Nietzsche?

Eastern mysticism or not, Hitler was an atheist.

I really can’t say if they did or not. Its been a while since I’ve seen it and I can’t say I remember. However they present the eastern mysticism cult as the idea of someone else and alot of the cult members were also members of the fledgling nazi party. This cult (I can’t remember the name) was essentially assimilated-if you’ll pardon the Star Trek wordage-into the nazi party. Hitler basically, according to the History channel at any rate, just used this cult’s mentality to his advantage. Supposedly this cult believed there was a race of “supermen” whose civilzation was lost in some cataclysm, very much like the Atlantis story. Supposedly, this is what helped found the arian superiority thing that the nazis preached. The myths they followed were Teutonic, but the structure and operation was modeled after these far east mystery cults. The one cult that was claimed to have the most influence was the “Black Dragon Society” that supposedly flourished in the far east.

Again, let me just say that this was the History channels perspective.

 

[ccav]

“Catholic” means “member of the Catholic Church”.
By that defintion, Hitler was a Catholic. He was never excommunicated.

Making statements of that kind of course imply “Hitler was evil → Hitler was Catholic → Catholics are evil”. And that’s utter nonsense. Boy, I have heard that one before: “Hitler was evil → Hitler was an atheist → atheists are evil”. Replace Hitler with Stalin. :banghead:

Hitler did believe in divine powers, namely fate. E.g., he took his survival of a dozen or more assassination attempts as evidence for divine interference. What he really believed, who knows? He probably did not believe in Norse paganism, that was more Himmler’s thing. That Hitler’s actions were no way christian needs no debate.

He openly admired the Catholic Church though for sticking blindly to its dogma ignoring any scientific progress and cultural changes, and asked his followers to do the same with thier ideology (Mein Kampf, book 2, chapter 5). And he made a treaty with the Church (Reichskonkordat 1933) granting the Church extended priviledges like collecting taxes and less rights for church employees. That treaty is still in place today, some protestant and Jewish (now that’s irony) denominations were included in the 50s.

Then how do you explain that in February of 1933 Hermann Goering banned all Catholic newspapers in Cologne, citing that ‘political’ Catholicism — ie commenting on government policy — would not be tolerated.

How do you explain that Storm troopers (SA) continually broke up meetings of Christian trade unions and the Catholic Centre Party?

How do you explain that Thousands of Catholic Center Party (Zentrum) activists were in concentration camps by the end of June 1933.

How do you explain that Goering made a public appeal for the Vatican to renegotiate the terms of the concordat with the threat that if they did not the SA would be unleashed on defenceless Catholics?

Or what about Cardinal Faulhaber of Munich who was shot at by nazi youth gangs and Cardinal Innitzer’s residence in Vienna was ransacked in October 1938?

Then there is the fact that songs, films, speeches by party members, poster campaigns, and theatre productions cruelly satirised clergy in the later 1930s.

By 1939 all schools, trade unions and organizations supported by the Catholic Church were virtually eliminated and replaced by a nazi version. The Bavarian Ministry of Education alone announced in 1936 that 600 nuns who taught school were to be replaced. By January 1939 it was estimated that more than 10,000 Catholic schools had been suppressed and by the end of April that year the London Catholic Herald reported that a further 3,300 schools had been abolished by decree in what was described as “A black day for the Catholic Rhineland.”

And yet in the midst of all this Bishop Clemens Count von Galen of Munster, Archbishop von Preysing of Berlin, Cardinal Bertram of Breslau, Cardinal Schulte of Cologne and possibly the most famous of all, Cardinal Michael von Faulhaber of Munich continued to protest the racist and anti-semetic policies of the nazis.

Sorry AnAthiest, but your analysis of the situation does not hold water.

 

[ralphinal]

Hitler was a Catholic before he was a murderer. Stalin was a seminarian before he was a communist. It has been noted that the biggest threat in the world are the baptised pagans. I say it is the baptised pagans with mental problems.

 

[AnAtheist]

Newvert:

Hello AnAtheist,

Your “syllogism” above well illustrates your point, and even if Hitler were, say, a regular at Eucharistic Adoration, it still would not invalidate Christianity (as Stalin couldn’t invalidated Atheism, even if he wore a really big hat with the word atheist on it). However, are you certain Hitler could be considered a Catholic according to your tautological definition?

As I was given to understand, all nazis were excommunicated in 1930 or 1932. While he wasn’t mentioned specifically and I can’t fully vouch for that information, wouldn’t it mean he was no longer Catholic.

Is that possible? To excommunicate millions of people in a single act?

The point is, Hitler was a member of the Catholic church - so what? Does that have implications on other Catholics? No!
Catholic = member of the Catholic church is one definition, I got straight from Websters. So in this sense the statement is true. What ever the original utterer wanted to imply with it is wrong.

 

[AnAtheist]

ccav:

Then how do you explain …
Sorry AnAthiest, but your analysis of the situation does not hold water.

I explain all those with the fact that the Nazis were a bunch of fanatics with no sense for individual freedom. Therefore anybody who resisted them has earned my respect.

I have not analysed the situation, I just stated some facts. And if you have read my post carefully, you should see, that it defends Catholics against the type of arguing by people who use statements like “Hitler was a Catholics”.
Nonetheless, the fact, that the Church has officially signed a treaty with Germany that is still valid today, remains. That fact alone does not mean anything regarding good and evil deeds by whomever.

 

[yinekka]

Not one conciliar decree, not one papal encyclical, bull, or pastoral directive suggest that Jesus’s command, ‘love your neighbor as yourself,’ applied to Jews."

Spins of Omission
Ron Rychlak
The papacy opposed the anti-semitic campaign against Alfred Dreyfus.

In 1916, American Jews petitioned Benedict XV on behalf of Polish Jews. The response was as follows:

The Supreme Pontiff…never ceases to indicate…the observance of the principles of the natural law, and to condemn everything that violates them. This law must be observed and respected in the case of the children of Israel, as well as of all others, because it would not be comformable to justice or to religion itself to derogate from it solely on account of divergence of religious confessions.
This express papal condemnation of anti-Semitism was published in the Jesuit journal, Civilta Cattolica
Benedict was succeeded by Pope Pius XI.

On September 6, 1938, in a statement that quickly made its way around the world, this pope said:
Anti-Semitism…is a movement with which we Christians can have nothing to do. No, no, I say to you it is impossible for a Christian to take part in anti-Semitism. It is inadmissible. Through Christ and in Christ we are the spiritual progeny of Abraham. Spiritually, we are all Semites.
The National Jewish Monthly reported that “the only bright spot in Italy has been the Vatican, where fine humanitarian statements by the Pope have been issuing regularly.” Jacques Maritain wrote: “No stronger word has been uttered by a Christian against anti-Semitism, and this Christian was the successor to the Apostle Peter.”

In 1937, the Vatican issued Pius XI’s encyclical Mit Brennender Sorge (only encyclical written firstly in German, smuggled into Germany and read from the pulpits) on the Church and the German Reich. This still stands as one of the strongest condemnations of any national regime that the Holy See has ever published, and it contains a significant discussion of why Scripture and the Incarnation itself forbid racial derogation of the “chosen people.”

, Pius XI was long known to be on good terms with Jews. As a young man, he learned Hebrew from a rabbi, and he enjoyed warm relations with Italian Jewish leaders in the early years of his priesthood. Instructed by Pope Benedict to direct the distribution of Catholic relief in postwar Poland, Ratti provided funds to impoverished Jews who had lost their homes and businesses .

THE ROOTS OF ANTI-JUDAISM IN THE CHRISTIAN ENVIRONMENT

Jean Stern

. In the V-VI centuries, Pope S. Gregory the Great took the defense of the Jews of Terracina, who were forced by the Christians to move their Synagogue, just as some Jews of Arles and of Marseilles who were forced to Baptism.
Beginning from the XI Century, some pontifical bulls were published which aimed to protect, amongst others, the Jews against the accusation of “sacrificial ritual.” And closer to us, at the beginning of the XX century, S. Pius X protested against the pogroms. In the 1928, the Holy Office condemned anti-Semitism, a condemnation reiterated by Pius XI in 1938.

Continued in next post

 

[yinekka]

Pope Gregory I (590-604) spelled out Church policy toward the Jews in his decree Sicut Iudaeis Non. As might be expected, it was a synthesis of Roman law and the philosophies of St. Paul and St. Augustine. Gregory wrote, “Just as the Jews should not in their synagogues be free to do anything not permitted by law, so also in those things granted them they should have no infringement of their rights.” During his pontificate, he put these words into practice, intervening to protect Jews from violence and insisting that Jewish rituals be tolerated.

Indeed, throughout the thousand years of the Middle Ages, Rome and the papal states were the only places in western Europe where the Jews were at all times free from attacks or expulsions. The medieval papacy’s unfailing defense of the Jews was not lost on the Jews themselves, who frequently came to the throne of St. Peter for justice and support against their enemies.

If some Catholics did treat the Jews unkindly the teaching of the catechism of the Council of Trent was forgotten, which attributed the death of Christ to all the sinners, whoever they were.

Thomas F. Madden
Church And The Jews In The Middle Ages,
Thomas F. Madden is associate professor and chair of the Department of History at Saint Louis University

In the ninth century, St. Agobard, the archbishop of Lyons, wrote, “Since they (the Jews – my addition) dwell among us, we ought not to be malignant to them, nor should we threaten their lives, safety, or property. Let us observe the convention ordained by the Church, which is explicit in defining how we must be at once cautious but humane in our dealings with them.”

In a letter to the bishops of Spain, Pope Alexander II specifically forbade anyone from equating holy wars against Muslims with violence against Jews. He wrote, “The matter of the Jews is entirely different from that of the Muslims: the latter actively engage in war against Christians; the former are everywhere ready to remain peaceful.”

St. Bernard of Clairvaux, preaching the Second Crusade, told the soldiers of Christ, “The Jews are not to be persecuted, killed, or even put to flight.” When a fellow Cistercian monk began exhorting Germans to destroy the Jews before waging war on the Muslims, St. Bernard went personally to put a stop to it. As Rabbi Efraim of Bonn wrote:
Bernard said to them [the Crusaders]: “It is good that you go against the Ishmaelites [Muslims]. But whosoever touches a Jew to take his life, is like one who harms Jesus himself . . .” When our enemies heard his words, many of them ceased plotting to kill us . . . Were it not for the mercy of our creator in sending the aforementioned abbot [Bernard] and his later letters, no remnant or vestige would have remained of Israel. Blessed be the redeemer and saviour, blessed be his name.

Pope Clement VI issued bulls in 1348 repudiating these widely held beliefs, insisting that the Jews’ lives and property be respected. But his words, and those of his successors in the 14th century, were ignored. By the beginning of the 15th century, the only safe place in Europe to be a Jew was in the lands of the pope.

The Church published] over a hundred anti-Semitic documents.

What are the names of these documents?

?

 

[tom.wineman]

I Guess it is another example of a politician putting party beliefs over religious beliefs and one thing led to another.

 

[Carl]

raphinal

Hitler was a Catholic before he was a murderer. Stalin was a seminarian before he was a communist.

Had they remained religious at least to a certain degree, their murderous careers might have been nipped in the bud.

 

[RNRobert]

empther:

I’ve seen televangelists gratuitously mention that Hitler was a Catholic For anybody to suggest that Hitler was any kind of Catholic in his heart is proof of mental deficiency.

Once in a bookstore I was browsing through a book by some fundamentalist/evangelical writer about the end times. In this book, the author claimed that the Pope was Anti-Christ because Hitler was a Catholic and the Pope didn’t excommunicate him. What rubbish!

 

[loyola_rambler]

Packed away with all of the books from my old office is a compilation of letters from the Vatican to various priests, bishops and cardinals during the war. It was compiled by a wonderful Jesuit who left us about 15 years ago, but it was wonderful because it pulled from the archives some very important pieces…including letters from the Pope to the bishops of Germany insisting that Hitler and his cronies were excommunicated Latae Senteniae and under no circumstances were they eligible to receive the sacraments without presenting themselves to the pope himself for confession. It’s very telling as you read through these letters because underneath them all was also a fear that that the German and French clergy do nothing to provoke the Germans and bring their wrath upon anyone.

I’ve often wondered what would have happened if Hitler did walk into a church and present himself for confession. Surely the priest would have sealed his own fate if he had refused. And following the pope’s orders, it seems there was room for him to give the sacraments and be forgiven for it if it meant saving others from death. What a terrible position for anyone to deal with during such unsettling times.

As for whether Hitler was a Catholic. Yes, once upon a time he was. But he left, of his own accord, and stopped accepting Catholic sacraments long before the rise of the third empire. He didn’t consider himself Catholic when he was the Chancellor, nor did he have any particular fondness for any of the clergy when he had them arrested and murdered. He had no problem invading cloistered convents and condoning the rape of nuns. Could he be anything further from Catholic at that point?

Lastly, the writings of Hitler also show that he became aware of his excommunication somewhere along the way. He planned his suicide long in advance knowing that he was going to be denied a religious funeral and ordered his body burned so that not only would it not be available for desecration (as befell Mussolini), but also so that there wasn’t any scandal in his being buried in non-consecrated ground.

 

[Richard_Lamb]

Yes and some slave owners in the south were protestant ministers.

Let he who has not sinned cast the first stone…

 

[wolpertinger]

I’m a bit late to this, but please allow me to echo some sentiments offered previously.

First, it is not possible to give an answer that the opening question merits within the constraints of this forum. There are a lot more complexities and nuances to the historical record than can be discussed here.

There are Christians that claim Hitler as the prime atheist and there are atheists that portray Hitler as the prime Christian. Wearing my German atheist hat, I say neither side has it right. I will not engage in speculation whether or not Adolf Hitler was Catholic in any technical sense. I take exception to the way Christians misdefine atheism and I wouldn’t presume to tell a Catholic what a Catholic is.

There is indeed a lot of selective quoting to support that Hitler was either an atheist or a Catholic. At the end of the day, I don’t consider it justified to accept anything Hitler said as a sincere expression of personal belief. Whatever spiritiual beliefs he held cannot be shown beyond a reasonable doubt, but my personal opinion is that he concocted his own self-serving set of beliefs. To put it this way, he probably wasn’t an atheist, because he may well have believed himself to be god.

Initially, Hitler fully supported the Catholic (and Protestant) Church, provided they resigned themselves to their designated role of tending to their flock’s spiritual care only. In other words, he was quite willing to use the churches as a tool, but once priests openly criticised Nazi policy from the pulpit they were persecuted like anybody else that offered any measure of resistance.

I haven’t lived in a totalitarian regime myself, but I accept without question that the acts of some priests were courageous beyond comprehension. Sadly, other priests were seduced by the regime. The churches may or may not have struck compromises for the sake of their survival, but it is very easy to lean back in an armchair and point fingers, is it not?

However that may be, the true substance of Hitler’s spiritual belief cannot be put to the test anymore. And as BobCatholic said, he was a “politician” first and foremost.

 

[luckyirishguy14]

Hitler may have been a Catholic as a child, but I think when he rose to power, he was considered “God” to the Nazis. As dictator (and in many ancient dictatorships in the past), he became an idol to many Nazi children.

 

[Richard_Lamb]

wolpertinger:

I’m a bit late to this, but please allow me to echo some sentiments offered previously.

First, it is not possible to give an answer that the opening question merits within the constraints of this forum. There are a lot more complexities and nuances to the historical record than can be discussed here.

There are Christians that claim Hitler as the prime atheist and there are atheists that portray Hitler as the prime Christian. Wearing my German atheist hat, I say neither side has it right. I will not engage in speculation whether or not Adolf Hitler was Catholic in any technical sense. I take exception to the way Christians misdefine atheism and I wouldn’t presume to tell a Catholic what a Catholic is.

There is indeed a lot of selective quoting to support that Hitler was either an atheist or a Catholic. At the end of the day, I don’t consider it justified to accept anything Hitler said as a sincere expression of personal belief. Whatever spiritiual beliefs he held cannot be shown beyond a reasonable doubt, but my personal opinion is that he concocted his own self-serving set of beliefs. To put it this way, he probably wasn’t an atheist, because he may well have believed himself to be god.

Initially, Hitler fully supported the Catholic (and Protestant) Church, provided they resigned themselves to their designated role of tending to their flock’s spiritual care only. In other words, he was quite willing to use the churches as a tool, but once priests openly criticised Nazi policy from the pulpit they were persecuted like anybody else that offered any measure of resistance.

I haven’t lived in a totalitarian regime myself, but I accept without question that the acts of some priests were courageous beyond comprehension. Sadly, other priests were seduced by the regime. The churches may or may not have struck compromises for the sake of their survival, but it is very easy to lean back in an armchair and point fingers, is it not?

However that may be, the true substance of Hitler’s spiritual belief cannot be put to the test anymore. And as BobCatholic said, he was a “politician” first and foremost.

I would not presume to beleive that what hitler did was motivated by an atheist belief anymore than from a Christian belief. Hitler was Evil plain and simple and must be dealt with in that manner.

 

[hermit]

Hitler was catholic. Joseph Stalin had aspirations to the priesthood - so what? What is this supposed to prove?