Was Hitler a Catholic?

[Church_Militant]

Warning . . . the following link contains dozens of pictures that may cause a Roman Catholic to find repulsive.

Viewer discretion advised.

By the way, the little man on the right with a wooden leg (not visible in the picture) he was Nazi #2, behind his Leader. He considered himself a Roman Catholic. It is unclear if he was still one up until he killed all his children and committed suicide along with his wife – in the bunker with Hitler.

Hitler and the Roman Cathoic Church

I believe in exposing truth, not suppressing it. Do I believe the Roman Catholic Church had a political deal with Nazi Germany, yes. Does that have anything whatsoever to do with my faith in Jesus Christ, absolutely not.

I’m not trying to bait any Roman Catholic into a fight.

From an atheist site that bashes all Christians but at least has the integrity to show that the Reich religion was indeed a pagan evolution combined with Aryan philosophy.

Your citations fail to point out that all those pictures of German troops in Catholic churches were from pre WWll when Hitler’s movement was seeking to kiss up to the church and to make themselves appear as angels of light. Germany has had a long Christian history…as both Catholic and non. The fact that they celebrated Christmas is no big deal one way or another as most soldiers (on both sides) did.

As for your “political deal”, I suggest that you actually track it down and read it.

You, like many other n-Cs, would love to get people to believe all this trash about the Catholic Church, but as I’ve said before…though no one (least of all or own government) did enough to intervene on behalf of the Holocaust victims, the Catholic Church, under the leadership of Pope Pius XII quietly did far and away more than anyone else.

I have made a study of this and the results can be found on my blog. Someone Has Lied to You About Our Pope Pius XII

 

[tabcom]

, , under the leadership of Pope Pius XII quietly did far and away more than anyone else.

Would you be so kind as to produce one document that he signed prior to 1945 that condemns Nazi Germany?

As for your “political deal”, I suggest that you actually track it down and read it.

Since you brought up the ‘Reichskonkordat’, I’ve posted a link for all to read it . . .

http://nobeliefs.com/images/concordat.jpg

The Concordat between the Vatican and the Nazis

Cardinal Secretary of State, Eugenio Pacelli (later to become Pope Pius XII) signs the Concordat between Nazi Germany and the Vatican at a formal ceremony in Rome on 20 July 1933. Nazi Vice-Chancellor Franz von Papen sits at the left, Pacelli in the middle, and the Rudolf Buttmann sits at the right.

Article 16

Before bishops take possession of their dioceses they are to take an oath of loyalty either to the Reich governor of the state (Land) concerned or to the President of the Reich respectively, according to the following formula:

"Before God and on the Holy Gospels I swear and promise, as becomes a bishop, loyalty to the German Reich and to the State (Land) of . . . I swear and promise to honour the legally constituted government and to cause the clergy of my diocese to honour it. With dutiful concern for the welfare and the interests of the German state, in the performance of the ecclesiastical office entrusted to me, I will endeavor to prevent everything injurious which might threaten it."

Article 32

the Holy See will enact regulations to exclude the clergy and members of religious orders from membership in political parties and from working on their behalf. (In other words, oppose the Reich.)

Full Text of the Concordat available here.

I have made a study of this and the results can be found on my blog

I’m always interested in fair, unbiased studies, I’ll be sure to check it out .:nope:

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

I have not noticed many atheists condemning the Church for the actions of one man – rather, it’s a response to Christians condemning atheism for the actions of that same man, who, as it happened, professed to be Christian and claimed to have ‘stamped out’ the ‘atheist movement’ in 1928.

No rational person wants the dubious honor of claiming Hitler (or, for that matter, Franco or Stalin or Mao or Pol Pot or many others) as neighbors in faith or philosophy. Unfortunately, Hitler and Franco were Catholic, Stalin and Mao were atheist, and Pol Pot was Buddhist. None of them should be thought of as exemplars of those religions and philosophies – but all too often, they are taken as such, and all too often people try to slough off their ‘undesirables’ on others.

Hitler was a Catholic, or at the very least publicly professed to be so. There’s no getting around that. Nor is there any getting around the atheism of Stalin and Mao. Evil and madness do not restrict themselves to any one religion or the lack thereof.

Exactly ​

IMHO, if the CC is what it claims to be, to have mass-murderers & genocidal tyrants & repellent clergy in its ranks is simply irrelevant - if it is truly “of God”, its claims will not be affected by any amount of criminality & evil. So all this fussing about the murderousness of Hitler or the possible moral blindness of Pius XII is completely irrelevant. Only a church that is built on human virtue needs to worry about the blamelessness of its members; a Church that is dependent purely on God’s Grace & God’s Holiness has no such worries. ISTM that the CC lacks the courage of its convictions.

If Christianity were not grace-based, it would have lost all right to be heard as a result of its shameful & evil maltreatment of the Jews, which for my money is far & away the greatest of its crimes. It certainly can’t base itself on the goodness of its members - & a good thing too. Which leaves open the possibility that the notorious evil-doers are not necessarily the worst evil-doers.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Would you be so kind as to produce one document that he signed prior to 1945 that condemns Nazi Germany?

Since you brought up the ‘Reichskonkordat’, I’ve posted a link for all to read it . . .

http://nobeliefs.com/images/concordat.jpg

The Concordat between the Vatican and the Nazis

Cardinal Secretary of State, Eugenio Pacelli (later to become Pope Pius XII) signs the Concordat between Nazi Germany and the Vatican at a formal ceremony in Rome on 20 July 1933. Nazi Vice-Chancellor Franz von Papen sits at the left, Pacelli in the middle, and the Rudolf Buttmann sits at the right.

Article 16

Before bishops take possession of their dioceses they are to take an oath of loyalty either to the Reich governor of the state (Land) concerned or to the President of the Reich respectively, according to the following formula:

"Before God and on the Holy Gospels I swear and promise, as becomes a bishop, loyalty to the German Reich and to the State (Land) of . . . I swear and promise to honour the legally constituted government and to cause the clergy of my diocese to honour it. With dutiful concern for the welfare and the interests of the German state, in the performance of the ecclesiastical office entrusted to me, I will endeavor to prevent everything injurious which might threaten it."

Article 32

the Holy See will enact regulations to exclude the clergy and members of religious orders from membership in political parties and from working on their behalf. (In other words, oppose the Reich.)

Full Text of the Concordat available here.

I’m always interested in fair, unbiased studies, I’ll be sure to check it out .:nope:

Who is Rudolf Buttmann ? Not, I think, Rudolf Bultmann - it doesn’t remotely look like him.

FWIW, I don’t see what is wrong with the Concordat. Concordats do not imply positive approval of regimes: they are bilateral legal instruments for regularising the positions of the CC & the state; both of these have their authority & their rights from God. It is simply ignorant to interpret the 1934 Concordat as Roman or Papal approval of the Hitler government, as is often done. Concordats are with sovereign states - not with political parties: so that of 1934 was between the Holy See on the one side & the Reich on the other; not between the Vatican & the Nazis - so it was not dependent for its legal force on the vagaries of politicians. As for unusual conditions - those can in the nature of the case not be foreseen.

Apart from anything else, the 1934 Concordat was in continuity with earlier concordats between the Vatican & various German states in previous years, so from a diplomatic POV it probably seemed entirely appropriate. As for allegiance to the state - no state would last long if it could not rely on the loyalty of its citizens. It is not right to judge what was done in 1934 from the POV of 1945: popes & other bishops have only past experience to go on - just like diplomats elsewhere.

 

[notself]

It is not right to judge what was done in 1934 from the POV of 1945: popes & other bishops have only past experience to go on - just like diplomats elsewhere.

There is a very old saying; it might be German.

“Lie down with dogs, get up with flees.”

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

There is a very old saying; it might be German.

“Lie down with dogs, get up with flees.”

It’s a pity one can’t always choose which dog.​

 

[wutru]

In Hitler’s own words: en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Hitler

“I have thus prevented my Catholic and Protestant supporters from forming groups against one another, and inadvertently knocking each other out with the Bible. So we never became involved with these churches’ forms of worship.”

“It is through the peasantry that we shall really be able to destroy Christianity, because there is in them a true religion rooted in nature and blood.”

“It seems to me that nothing would be more foolish than to reestablish the worship of Wotan. Our old mythology had ceased to be viable when Christianity implanted itself. Nothing dies unless it is moribund. At that period the ancient world was divided between the systems of philosophy and the worship of idols. It is not desirable that the whole of humanity should be stultified— and the only way of getting rid of Christianity is to allow it to die little by little.”

“When all is said, we have no reason to wish that the Italians and Spaniards should free themselves from the drug of Christianity. Let us be the only Folk who are immunized against the disease.”

 

[bill210]

Yes. Apparently he was baptised in the Catholic Church.
Many criminals were baptised Catholic. Some died that way and probably will go to hell and many repented through a conversion of heart and became saints. Do we judge the Church by its members? Judas betrayed Christ and the rest of the apostles ran away and deserted Him. The first Pope cut off a guy,s ear.
Until the Holy Spirit came upon them they all had failed.
There are both good and bad in the Church as in all of society whether hidden or revealed but the Church IS Holy.

 

[Mattcos]

I believe the question should be, was Hitler Demonically Possed. The History channel has done many stories about Hitler, in one of then they showed news footage that had been edited. It showed a man unable to sit still constantly rocking back and forth. Hitler, had absolute hate in his heart. Hitler’s desire was to destroy anything that had to do with kindness and love. It is true that Hitler starred for hours at the spear of destiny, which was believed to be the tool that brought about Christ’s passing. Is there any coincidence in this? Lets see if I wanted absolute power who would I have to give myself over to, in order to secure power quickly? Could it be Satin?

Curious about your thoughts.

Mattcos

 

[sanblasboy13]

Yes. Apparently he was baptised in the Catholic Church.
Many criminals were baptised Catholic. Some died that way and probably will go to hell and many repented through a conversion of heart and became saints. Do we judge the Church by its members? Judas betrayed Christ and the rest of the apostles ran away and deserted Him. The first Pope cut off a guy,s ear.
Until the Holy Spirit came upon them they all had failed.
There are both good and bad in the Church as in all of society whether hidden or revealed but the Church IS Holy.

AMEN!! There will always be bad apples in the barrel. Look at the Circumcisers in the 1st century. Even when the Apostles were around there were bad ppl within the church. But the Church has never fallen or gone corrupt.
“And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it,” (Matthew 16:18) Would Jesus lie to His church? No. Either Jesus is God incarnate or he is the biggest liar in the world. I am truly blessed to be part of the body of christ. Who’s with me???

 

[SantaBenito]

Hitler was Christian.

 

[neophyte]

…In fact, Hitler was never excommunicated from the Catholic Church,…

As for that, Hitler encurred automatic excommunication by a number of his actions, not the least of which was his ordering the forcible abortions performed on his victims.

Why wouldn’t the Church have issued a decree of excommunication anyway? For one thing, only one who is a Catholic can be excommunicated, and since Hitler had already excommuncated himself he wasn’t the legitimate subject of excommunication anymore. For another, if the Church had done it then Hitler would have retaliated (as he always did when denounced by the Church) by ordering the murders of many innocent people. If a decree had been issued, then I’m sure that these same people today would be finding fault with the Church for needlessly endangering the lives of innocent people.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Yes. Apparently he was baptised in the Catholic Church.
Many criminals were baptised Catholic. Some died that way and probably will go to hell and many repented through a conversion of heart and became saints. Do we judge the Church by its members? Judas betrayed Christ and the rest of the apostles ran away and deserted Him. The first Pope cut off a guy,s ear.
Until the Holy Spirit came upon them they all had failed.
There are both good and bad in the Church as in all of society whether hidden or revealed but the Church IS Holy.

But - if the Church is not going to take any responsibility for its less lovely members, how can it take any credit for those who are holy ?​

A Church which does not own up to Hitler, cannot take credit for St. Francis of Assisi.

What decided me to become Catholic was something
written by Father Ronald Knox on exactly this point - he said (in a book written in 1927) that, unlike other Churches, the CC took responsibility for having members of both kinds - not just of the saintly kind. It’s a pity that the CC 80 years later seems to be proving him completely wrong.

The CC has to take responsibility for producing Hitler & the other ex-Catholic Nazis - he was brought up a Catholic, in a Catholic area of a largely Catholic country. It is cowardice - nothing else - to try to shrug him off because his existence & life are not good publicity for the Church. It will gain no respect for refusing to face inconvenient & painful facts; & the encounter with them will only be the more painful when it does. Some medicines are best taken without delay - that helps the taste to go much sooner than if one struggles so as not to.

 

[The_Truthinator]

I believe the question should be, was Hitler Demonically Possed. The History channel has done many stories about Hitler, in one of then they showed news footage that had been edited. It showed a man unable to sit still constantly rocking back and forth. Hitler, had absolute hate in his heart. Hitler’s desire was to destroy anything that had to do with kindness and love. It is true that Hitler starred for hours at the spear of destiny, which was believed to be the tool that brought about Christ’s passing. Is there any coincidence in this? Lets see if I wanted absolute power who would I have to give myself over to, in order to secure power quickly? Could it be Satin?

I also believe that satin, or maybe silk, was responsible for Hitler’s actions…

From what I understand, the Catholic Church remained for the most part (like the rest of the world) oblivious to Hitler’s eventual plans. I know of a few underground operations promoted by the Church to intervene and save Jews, but I have no links, alas. There were also things such as fake baptismal certificates being issues to Jews in order to appear “repentant” of their heritage, etc.

It’s probably good to point out that Hitler quoted from Martin Luther’s *On the Jews and Their Lies *to support his campaign.

But to answer the question “Was Hitler a Catholic?”, YES. He was Catholic by virtue of his baptism, and nothing else. That means that he, like us, had a call placed on him by God, which is “irrevocable.” (Rom. 11:29) He had so many talents and could have done great things, but he chose to ignore his call, and it cost millions their lives. Something to reflect on…

 

[Jerry-Jet]

Who was more deserving of Hell: Hitler or Judas?

 

[notself]

Who was more deserving of Hell: Hitler or Judas?

Didn’t they both fulfill God’s great plan?

 

[Jerry-Jet]

Everything fulfills God’s plan–that doesn’t mean that one would want to be everything that fulfills God’s plan.

Who wants to be what will be cast into the lake of fire–that may be in God’s plan–but that’s somewhere surely that one should not want to go!

 

[notself]

Everything fulfills God’s plan–that doesn’t mean that one would want to be everything that fulfills God’s plan.

Who wants to be what will be cast into the lake of fire–that may be in God’s plan–but that’s somewhere surely that one should not want to go!

Since both Hitler and Judas committed suicide after fullfilling their part in God’s plan, one can assume they weren’t to keen on their part either.

 

[Michael_Francis]

Thread closed.