Was Hitler a Catholic?

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hermit:
Hitler was catholic. Joseph Stalin had aspirations to the priesthood - so what? What is this supposed to prove?
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Nothing except in the minds predisposed to hate cahtolicicsm.
 
Among Hitler’s most famous victims was St. Edith Stein, who along with 110,000 Dutch Catholics were murdered by the Nazis in 1942 after their bishops spoke out against Nazism.

And some people still have the audacity to call Hitler a Catholic. :tsktsk:

How sad. :crying:

Gerry
 
Not only was Hitler a ‘catholic’ (“I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so”), but it was with the aid of the Vatican that he rose to power. Here are a few quotes from John Toland’s best-selling, Pulitzer prize winning, biography of Hitler:

(speaking of Hitler, page 11) "He also had a good natural singing voice and on certain afternoons attended the choir school at the monastery, under the tutelage of Padre Bernhard Gröner. On the way he had to pass by a stone arch in which was carved the monastery’s coat of arms—its most prominent feature a swastika.

“At this time he became ‘intoxicated’ with that ‘solemn splendor of brilliant church festivals.’ The abbot became his idol and he hoped to join the Church himself, one aspiration that curiously met his anti-clerical father’s approval. Adolf later told Frau Helene Hanfstaengl that 'as a small boy it was his most ardent wish to become a priest…” (page 11)

(page 961, speaking of Hitler) “Still a member in good standing of the Church of Rome despite detestation of its hierarchy (“I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so” *added note: a quote of Hitler in 1941 to Engel, one of his generals.) he carried within him its teaching that the Jew was the killer of God.”

(page 431) "The princes of the Church were more eager to curry his favor. ‘Hitler knows how to guide the ship,’ anounced Monsignor Ludwig Kaas, leader of the recently outlawed Catholic Party after an audience with the pope. ‘Even before he became Chancellor I met him frequently and was greatly impressed by his clear thinking, by his way of facing realities while upholding his ideals, which are noble …. It matters little who rules so long as order is maintained.’ Pius XI subscribed to the same principles, as was proved July 20 when a concordat between the Vatican and Hitler was signed.…
¶“The Vatican was so appreciative of being recognized as a full partner that it asked God to bless the Reich. On a more practical level, it ordered German bishops to swear allegiance to the National Socialist Regime. The oath concluded with these significant words: ‘In the performance of my spiritual office and in my solicitude for the welfare and the interest of the German Reich, I will endeavor to avoid all detrimental acts which might endanger it.’”

Or, here’s more, from the same biography:

“Later in the day Cardinal Innitzer greeted him (Hitler) with the sign of the cross and gave assurance that so long as the Church retained its liberties Austrian Catholics would become ‘the truest sons of the great Reich into whose arms they had been brought back on this momentous day.’ According to Papen, Hitler was delighted with the cardinal’s patriotic words, shook his hand warmly, and ‘promised him everything.’” (page 623)

“…The wave of his (Hitler’s) popularity had not subsided. A declaration signed by Cardinal Innitzer and five other prelates had been sent to the newly appointed commissioner of Austria instructing Austrian Catholics how to vote: ‘On the day of the plebiscite, it is the obvious national duty of us bishops to declare ourselves as Germans for the German Reich, and we expect all faithful Christians to recognize where their duty to the people lies.’” (page 625)

Hitler’s concordat with the Vatican greatly aided his rise to power—the same as with Mussolini.
 
jmgainor, you wrote:

*page 961, speaking of Hitler) "Still a member in good standing of the Church of Rome despite detestation of its hierarchy (“I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so” added note: a quote of Hitler in 1941 to Engel, one of his generals.) he carried within him its teaching that the Jew was the killer of God."

Indeed. Even granting he is. Does his crimes make it likewise the crimes of the Church? 3,000,000 Catholics who died in the war courtesy of Nazism must be turning in their graves with such an assertion.

So if Hitler claims that he is still a Catholic, we should likewise take his word for it? :nope: Besides, even excommunicated dissidents likewise claim to be “still” a part of the Church.

How does the author define the phrase “to be in good standing with the Church”?

How can one be in “good” standing with the Church while detesting its hierarchy (i.e. the Pope, the bishops)?

If the devil himself can quote scripture, Hitler can likewise claim to be Catholic.

Gerry **

**
 
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jmgainor:
Hitler’s concordat with the Vatican greatly aided his rise to power—the same as with Mussolini.
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Mussolini became Italian PM in 1922. His concordat with the Vatican was in 1929. How, then, did this concordat bring him to power seven years before it was in place?

Oh, and explain to me Hitler’s quote “One must be either a German or a Christian. One cannot be both.” Also all the persecutions of Catholics (and Protestants) and the paganism of the Nazi leadership and the excommunication of all Nazis by the Church.
 
Not that he needs any sympathy but after his story I feel awfully sorry for him. Its quite disturbing, tho, because many children in this day in age have no father or have a father who imbues in them hate and bigotry. Its really frighting that this simple child rose to power and affected so many lives. My older neighbor lived in Scottland adn was forced to leave. The horrors that Hilter caused outside of the concentration camps reaches untold millions.
 
Those who say that the Church aided Hitler in his rise to power should explain why Hitler lost (despite a splendidly efficient propaganda machinery) when he ran for President against Paul von Hindenburg for the Presidency of Germany in 1932. If I’m not mistaken, less than 15 % of German Catholics actually voted for him in that election. Gerry 🙂
 
Southernrich said:
Right. Himmler, Bohrmann, and Göbbels were also baptized Catholics, and Göbbels even went to parochial school in his early years. Bohrmann’s son even became a priest. So what?

If you think about it, to be a German was to be either a Catholic or a Lutheran as they don’t have the menagerie of churches America has.

It means nothing to have been a baptized Catholic or a baptized Lutheran if you reject the faith.
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I have seen Catholics on other threads use the phrase, “Once a Catholic always a Catholic.”

I am NOT saying that Hitler was a good Catholic, but he was according to the above phrase, still a Catholic.

You might say that Nazis were Catholics behaving badly.

Do you disagree? If so when does a Catholic in the state of mortal sin stop being a Catholic?
 
AnAtheist said:
“Catholic” means “member of the Catholic Church”.
By that defintion, Hitler was a Catholic. He was never excommunicated.

Making statements of that kind of course imply “Hitler was evil → Hitler was Catholic → Catholics are evil”. And that’s utter nonsense. Boy, I have heard that one before: “Hitler was evil → Hitler was an atheist → atheists are evil”. Replace Hitler with Stalin. :banghead:

Hitler did believe in divine powers, namely fate. E.g., he took his survival of a dozen or more assassination attempts as evidence for divine interference. What he really believed, who knows? He probably did not believe in Norse paganism, that was more Himmler’s thing. That Hitler’s actions were no way christian needs no debate.

He openly admired the Catholic Church though for sticking blindly to its dogma ignoring any scientific progress and cultural changes, and asked his followers to do the same with thier ideology (Mein Kampf, book 2, chapter 5). And he made a treaty with the Church (Reichskonkordat 1933) granting the Church extended priviledges like collecting taxes and less rights for church employees. That treaty is still in place today, some protestant and Jewish (now that’s irony) denominations were included in the 50s.
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To be precise, he incurred excommunication by his attacks on the clergy - as is clear if one compares his behaviour after the signing of the 1934 Concordat with the provisions of the 1917 Code of Canon Law.​

So he would count as an ex-Catholic - in fact, probably as an apostate: the cult of the Fuehrer was intended to replace that of Christ: as seems to be clear from the substitution of a pagan festival for Christmas. ISTM essential to treat Hitlerism as a religious phenomenon - as a secular Messianism, to be exact - if it is to be understood; even though that’s not all it is.

There were at least 60 violations of the Concordat by the Reich by 1939 - this is not exactly in accord with its provisions. Equally, it can certainly be argued that the Catholic bishops in the Reich did far too little to oppose him after 1934 - OTOH, it’s hardly fair for those who’ve not been through a trial to criticise those who have.

There’s a very interesting book from 1940 called “The Persecution of the Catholic Church in the Third Reich” - it’s full of quotations from the Nazi press, of anti-Catholic cartoons, all sorts of details,including many complaints by the bishops of the ways in which the Concordat had been violated. What it lacks, perhaps predictably, is much mention of the sufferings of the Jews. Even so, it hardly favours the idea that Hitler was pro-Catholic.

What certain Protestants seem not to appreciate, is that Martin Bormann was a Lutheran by upbringing - but only a bigot would argue that this was a proof of the badness of Lutheranism; yet the same silly unreason is used to condemn Catholicism. To condemn a religion because of the foulness of some of its members is silly - after all, one expects sinners to sin, so their sinfulness is proof of nothing. A far fairer test is to see what its best members are like. 🙂
 
Gottle_of_Geer said:
What certain Protestants seem not to appreciate, is that Martin Bormann was a Lutheran by upbringing - but only a bigot would argue that this was a proof of the badness of Lutheranism; yet the same silly unreason is used to condemn Catholicism. To condemn a religion because of the foulness of some of its members is silly - after all, one expects sinners to sin, so their sinfulness is proof of nothing. A far fairer test is to see what its best members are like. 🙂
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I have not noticed many atheists condemning the Church for the actions of one man – rather, it’s a response to Christians condemning atheism for the actions of that same man, who, as it happened, professed to be Christian and claimed to have ‘stamped out’ the ‘atheist movement’ in 1928.

No rational person wants the dubious honor of claiming Hitler (or, for that matter, Franco or Stalin or Mao or Pol Pot or many others) as neighbors in faith or philosophy. Unfortunately, Hitler and Franco were Catholic, Stalin and Mao were atheist, and Pol Pot was Buddhist. None of them should be thought of as exemplars of those religions and philosophies – but all too often, they are taken as such, and all too often people try to slough off their ‘undesirables’ on others.

Hitler was a Catholic, or at the very least publicly professed to be so. There’s no getting around that. Nor is there any getting around the atheism of Stalin and Mao. Evil and madness do not restrict themselves to any one religion or the lack thereof.
 
I can’t explain it but, He was brought up Catholic. But he hated religion. Any sort. It seemed Hitler wanted to rebound against any rules that where in place, Or anything he could fight for he would.
 
SantaBenito said:
I can’t explain it but, He was brought up Catholic. But he hated religion. Any sort. It seemed Hitler wanted to rebound against any rules that where in place, Or anything he could fight for he would.
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Could you give some links or quotes? 🙂 He appeared pro religion in Mein Kampf. Of course that was before he became the absolute dictator of Germany.
 
Mirdath said:
I have not noticed many atheists condemning the Church for the actions of one man – rather, it’s a response to Christians condemning atheism for the actions of that same man, who, as it happened, professed to be Christian and claimed to have ‘stamped out’ the ‘atheist movement’ in 1928.

No rational person wants the dubious honor of claiming Hitler (or, for that matter, Franco or Stalin or Mao or Pol Pot or many others) as neighbors in faith or philosophy. Unfortunately, Hitler and Franco were Catholic, Stalin and Mao were atheist, and **Pol Pot was Buddhist. ** None of them should be thought of as exemplars of those religions and philosophies – but all too often, they are taken as such, and all too often people try to slough off their ‘undesirables’ on others.

Hitler was a Catholic, or at the very least publicly professed to be so. There’s no getting around that. Nor is there any getting around the atheism of Stalin and Mao. Evil and madness do not restrict themselves to any one religion or the lack thereof.
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Actually, Pol Pot attended Catholic school and received higher education in France where he became a communist. When he took over the government of Cambodia, he persecuted Buddhist murdering many monastics. I don’t believe he was either a Catholic or a Buddhist. He was just a murderer.

I completely agree with you that religion or the lack of it has nothing to do with the evil and madness of people such as Hitler, Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot.
 
buffalo said:
Actually besides Jews he killed about 2-3 million Catholics. 25% of the Polish clergy also were killed.

I think he was pro choice - same as pro-death.
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Reminds me of The Scarlet and the Black. Good Movie. Hitler was raised catholic…but rejected many beliefs and didn’t attend mass or recieve the sacraments. In fact Hitler favored Protestanism and respected the Muslim military tradition…idk if its all true…check it out. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler%27s_religious_beliefs#Christianity
 
Klara Hitler was Catholic. Alois seems to have been a wife beater, a drunkard, and God knows what else; I have no idea of his religious affiliation or lack thereof…maybe Catholic, maybe Lutheran, maybe:shrug: nothing.
Adolf Hitler was apparently baptized Catholic; that doesn’t make him one. He rejected it for the worship of the ancient pagan deities (so-called).
We have an old saying over here in the Methodist Amen Corner: “If being born into a Christian family makes you a Christian, does being born in the garage make you a car?”
Seems to:thumbsup: fit the case…
 
Warning . . . the following link contains dozens of pictures that may cause a Roman Catholic to find repulsive.

Viewer discretion advised.

http://nobeliefs.com/images/NaziPriestsSaluteHitler.jpg

By the way, the little man on the right with a wooden leg (not visible in the picture) he was Nazi #2, behind his Leader. He considered himself a Roman Catholic. It is unclear if he was still one up until he killed all his children and committed suicide along with his wife – in the bunker with Hitler.

Hitler and the Roman Cathoic Church

I believe in exposing truth, not suppressing it. Do I believe the Roman Catholic Church had a political deal with Nazi Germany, yes. Does that have anything whatsoever to do with my faith in Jesus Christ, absolutely not.

I’m not trying to bait any Roman Catholic into a fight.
 
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