Was Ignatiuus of Antioch right?

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cheese_sdc said:
Why turn white as a sheet? What it tells me is that even the earliest followers could not agree on what the scriptures meant. Even less than 100 years after Christ died.
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Let alone the fact that all the Scriptures had not yet been fully identified and fleshed out yet…

You’re not going to find disagreement with what St. Ignatius wrote in any of the other Early Church Father writings. They all believed in submitting to the bishop and in the Real Presence of the Eucharist.

If this isn’t what Jesus intended, then it seems the entire Church fell into pretty grievous error less than a century after Jesus ascended. I guess the gates of Hell were stronger than Jesus reckoned?
 
cheese_sdc said:
Sorry, when man equates his authority with God’s authority, I tend to run the other way.
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Shlomo,

It sounds to me that the Apostle’s teachings doesn’t line up with your view of what the Church is. Why not take the Apostle’s teaching?

Alloho minokhoun,
Andrew
 
I know a person of pop-evangelical background who was persuaded to read the letters of St. Ignatius, and said aftewards, “The Bible doesn’t even say the same things any more since I read St. Ignatius.”

He’s now Orthodox.
 
bpbasilphx said:
I know a person of pop-evangelical background who was persuaded to read the letters of St. Ignatius, and said aftewards, “The Bible doesn’t even say the same things any more since I read St. Ignatius.”

He’s now Orthodox.
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👍
 
tundramom said:
Yup vocatio. It’s LDS… unless you’re watching Star Trek IV. Then Captain Kirk … or was it Spock? said “LSD”.

Even as a Mormon, I found that funny. 😃

in Christ
Steph
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Ah yes. I think it was

Kirk: He was part of the free-speech movement at Berkley. I think he did a little too much LDS.
 
Maybe cheese_sdc has gone night night?😃

It’s okay cheese you can come out to play. 😛

Look’s like it was a hit and run…

Interesting today. I was at the advanced Degree Knight’s of Columbus ceremony today and talked to a priest so much about how the Ancient Church Father and especially the Patristic Fathers changed my world. He said my enthusiasm about them has rekindled a desire to go back a start reading them again. He’s now on my wife’s “Priest Rosary” that she does for priests. He want’s to meet my wife after I told him our story. He’s a geek like me…engineer…just a different type. Engineering sort of helps you see detail that you might otherwise miss is something he said. That makes 2 priests in our diocese that were both engineers before becoming priests. I think being and engineer is a curse…sort of a punishment for not continuing my seminary formation…and on to the priesthood. 😊

Either that or God really did bring me to my wife to help lead her out of her struggles as a Protestant. I tend to believe that God gives us choices and that is why we must strive to show our children that they too can become good holy priests, deacons, religious and maybe even bishops one day.
 
guanophore said:
Oh, I understand this. What I don’t understand is why you deny that Jesus passed on legitimate authority.
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I’m not convinced that Jesus was god. If he wasn’t god, then their was no authority to pass on and the Catholic church, like any organism, is acting out of a sense of self-preservation and self interest. Reinforcing the “authority” of the hierarchy does that - it provides incentive and reinforcement to those in the pews to stay Catholic.

“The bishop told me xyz, and his authority comes from the Church, and the Church’s authority comes from God, therefore I must do it.”

I don’t buy it anymore.
 
cheese_sdc said:
No. I have a l life outside these forums. :rolleyes:
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Do you mean these forums? What faith are you anyway. It only seems fair to knw since if you were speaking to a group of Native American’s you might want to adjust how you communicate… I remember in the Army I was in charge of men from several different faith traditions but also different cultures. In order to communicate effectively I had to first have an understanding to some degree what they were like and then I could alter how I stated things to communicate more effectively. That’s all.
 
I don’t know about eating with the apostles after the resurrection but Jesus said that he will not drink again until He sits Next to His Father…but he did truly resurrect
 
panoikei said:
Do you mean these forums?
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Yes, these forums. 😃
What faith are you anyway?
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Dunno. I stopped going to Mass about 6 months ago and lately I’ve been attending services at the Unitarian Universalist Church in town. I don’t really have a faith outside of what I’ve experienced of the Divine.

And y’all do ask good questions, and have raised issues that I do think about.
 
cheese_sdc said:
I’m not convinced that Jesus was god. If he wasn’t god, then their was no authority to pass on and the Catholic church, like any organism, is acting out of a sense of self-preservation and self interest. Reinforcing the “authority” of the hierarchy does that - it provides incentive and reinforcement to those in the pews to stay Catholic.

“The bishop told me xyz, and his authority comes from the Church, and the Church’s authority comes from God, therefore I must do it.”

I don’t buy it anymore.
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Did you ever believe?

Do you think Jesus was a liar, or a lunatic?

He must have been one or the other, for claiming to be God if he was not. 🤷
 
cheese_sdc said:
I’m not convinced that Jesus was god. If he wasn’t god, then their was no authority to pass on and the Catholic church, like any organism, is acting out of a sense of self-preservation and self interest. Reinforcing the “authority” of the hierarchy does that - it provides incentive and reinforcement to those in the pews to stay Catholic.

“The bishop told me xyz, and his authority comes from the Church, and the Church’s authority comes from God, therefore I must do it.”

I don’t buy it anymore.
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Where does the authority of your new church (Unitarian) come from? How can you be easily convinced that whatever they teach you is true?
 
**The evolution of faith in Christian history:
**
Gnostic heresies: bashed human nature and denied Jesus’ humanity, extremely spiritualist and anti-materialistic

Reform Movement: Embraced Triune God, but bashed Church authority. Salvation without the Church.

Jehovah’s witnesses, Unitarians: Denied Triune God in addition to bashing Church authority. Salvation without the Trinity.

Atheism, positivism, rationalism: Denied God and everything spiritual, extremely materialistic (binary opposition of Gnostics). Salvation without God or no need for salvation.

This shows how some heresies in Christian history have gradually dragged people to atheism.
 
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