# Was Jesus deliberately ambiguous? #

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rinnie said:
Okay Derek, maybe you can help me then. A Sacrament is an outward sign instituted by Christ to give Grace. Jesus left us the 7 Sacraments for us to give us grace.

So how can we have one hand as you say it and then another. Is there only one kind of Grace? I thought God can give People many different Graces.

I thought that you get one Grace at Baptism, and you can continue to grow in that Grace. No? What the buck stops here.

Why then get married in the Church? I did it because I wanted that grace from God to bless my Marriage and grow in that grace for rest of my life? So what? I did not receive it?

I thought at Holy Communion it was a very special Grace given to me in receiving the Body of Christ. You don’t think thats a very special Grace either?

Holy Orders when a Priest gives his live just for God and receives the Power of the HS to teach Gods word. You don’t call that a Grace from God either.

How about last rites? A anointing Jesus taught the Apostels to bring spritual and even phycical strength during a illness? Thats not grace either?

Now if the Old Law and the New Law are exactly the same why did Paul tell the Jews that the gentiles are not held to it?
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rinnie said:
[/sign]

Did you hear that Guys. We cannot fall from grace. The devils getting in too! Or what now Derek are you going to say that the devil was never a angel now? We know you can’t say that. He was actually one of the best angels at one time!
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fhansen said:
The problem comes only from you thinking you’re really onto something different. We trust God for the gift of salvation as well, we just lack the over-confidence that the erroneous doctrine of OSAS brings with it. Again, like Paul, we continue with Gods grace to strive for the prize not yet obtained. This is the real gospel, which you’ve yet to accept. What *we do *counts, of course, because that’s His will. Praise God!

Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already been made perfect, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. 13Brothers, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, 14I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus. Phil 3:12-14
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joe370 said:
DerekD;5884796]You know so little about God it is pathetic; you should listen to your sister, she has better biblical theology. Do you believe God doesn’t want a person to know beyond a doubt that they are saved and do you actually believe that God will dwell, take up residence, then say this tent is too smelly; I’m out of here. God does not work that way, man does.

**Well, I don’t think you are pathetic; quite the contrary; just very angry for some reason. The rest of what you said has nothing to do with what I asked you. When people refuse to answer the tough questions, there is a reason. Perhaps calling fellow Christians pathetic isn’t exactly what Peter had in mind when he said:

“But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an
answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you
have. But do this with gentleness and respect…”

**

You can’t even get the biblical model for a church; talk to your sister. IMO it is the work of the devil to keep a person guessing if they are saved or not; it is the opposite of what God has said, unless you have good reason to doubt, like some continual sin.

**If this is what you believe, that’s cool. I respect you, but yes, our little debate is over. Christians being belligerent to one another is simply playing right into the hands of the devil, and I will have no part of it!

Peace friend…
**
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joe370 said:
Derek, I would like to add one thing: if salvation is by “faith only” certainly this “faith only” concept excludes even faith gained by reading the Bible - right? Why the need for this added work; it can’t save you, if you are correct?

Again, PEACE FRIEND…
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