Was jesus white????

[Rand_Al_Thor]

Peace be with you!

My mom said that she was reading about this and it said that the Galileans were usually a little lighter skinned than most other people in Palestine, but still had dark skin. But then you also have to take into account that Jesus, Mary, and Joseph wouldn’t really have been able to hide in Egypt if they looked completely different than everyone else.

In Christ,
Rand

 

[ben_dy]

Valtiel:

I wonder if this has been asked before, but if jesus was not purely white and the depiction of him as a stereotypical white man is incorrect, why does the church have such an image indorsed???

There was a great documentary - on the History Channel, I believe - in which a forensic facial reconstructionist took the skull of an early first century Jewish male of approximately 30 years of age and made a reconstruction of what he (and Jesus) may have looked like. A dark and swarthy man, with an almost bulging forehead, thick lips, and a rounded face (as opposed to European skulls of that period, which are more elongated), short dark, coarse, and curly hair worn short (as was the custom in those days), and a dark beard. Seeing the re-creation one could easily believe one was looking at Christ as he really looked while he was man.

The Church has never endorsed any physical traits of Jesus - those that are most common for the past 1500 years were surely by Europeans meant as sacred art and in no way an actual likeness. But the long hair has always thrown me for a loop - surely even educated European artists would have been aware that Christ would have worn his hair closely cropped (this always tickled me in the wearing hair long with the excuse that it was worn ‘as Jesus wore it’ - as a Jew of His time, he would not have.

Was he white skinned? No. And no long-flowing sandy locks, either, I think it’s safe to say!

Ben

 

[deb1]

ben_dy:

There was a great documentary - on the History Channel, I believe - in which a forensic facial reconstructionist took the skull of an early first century Jewish male of approximately 30 years of age and made a reconstruction of what he (and Jesus) may have looked like. A dark and swarthy man, with an almost bulging forehead, thick lips, and a rounded face (as opposed to European skulls of that period, which are more elongated), short dark, coarse, and curly hair worn short (as was the custom in those days), and a dark beard. Seeing the re-creation one could easily believe one was looking at Christ as he really looked while he was man.

The Church has never endorsed any physical traits of Jesus - those that are most common for the past 1500 years were surely by Europeans meant as sacred art and in no way an actual likeness. But the long hair has always thrown me for a loop - surely even educated European artists would have been aware that Christ would have worn his hair closely cropped (this always tickled me in the wearing hair long with the excuse that it was worn ‘as Jesus wore it’ - as a Jew of His time, he would not have.

Was he white skinned? No. And no long-flowing sandy locks, either, I think it’s safe to say!

Ben

One thing that I didn’t like about the particular documenatary is that they seemed to find the most unattractive male skull. Why not just pick out some living Palastine males of the right age and photograph them. WOuldn’t Jesus resemble them?

As far as close cropped hair…Romans wore their hair close cropped. I wasn’t aware that any but the more Hellanized Jews did this. Do you have a link that I can look at? The only soures that I find on Jewish hair length of the time period are from Fundamentalist sources who are trying to prove that men should only have very short hair. This doesn’t seem unbiased to me. I would love to read any other historical sites, as I have looked and looked and can not come up with anything.:crying:

The man on the shroud had, I think, shoulder length hair. Part of which had been pulled back, and a few strands could be seen on the front. I will post a link to that.

 

[deb1]

Here is that link to the shroud. Even if you doubt the shroud’s authenticity, it is still an interesting read. The FAQ answers how tall the man depicted by the image is and how long his hair is.

shroud.com/faq.htm#7

 

[RyanL]

Actually, the Catholic Church has endorsed at least one image of Christ. St. Faustina, who had a vision of Christ, painted the image of the anglo appearing Jesus who appeared to her. While I don’t think this “anglo” appearance is historically accurate, just as Our Lady of Guadalupe appeared Aztec, it is an image that Holy Mother Church has deemed “worthy of belief”.

God Bless,
RyanL

 

[catsrus]

I think that French nun said that she was magnificent & beautiful. Lourdes…whoever saw her at Lourdes.

That would be St. Bernadette.

 

[puzzleannie]

Valtiel:

I wonder if this has been asked before, but if jesus was not purely white and the depiction of him as a stereotypical white man is incorrect, why does the church have such an image indorsed???

I don’t know what that question means. are you asking was he Caucasian? dicussing ethnicity? images of Jesus, Mary and the saints are created by artists, not by the Church. they may be venerated if they lead the faithful to belief in the truths about Jesus, Mary, the Saints and the Church, but are not “endorsed” by the Church. I also don’t know what you mean by that word.

We just got done with a long thread about images of Jesus, and some people posted a lot of good ones, you might enjoy searching for it.

 

[mlchance]

Black Jesus: religion-cults.com/art/black-jesus.html

Black Jesus and Virgin Mary: religion-cults.com/art/virgin-black.html

Chinese Virgin Mary and Baby Jesus: davenation.com/madonnas/ki-chang.jpg

More Chinese Jesus with Chinese Apostles: web.singnet.com.sg/~ehcspore/promote.htm

Examples could be multiplied. In my classroom for the past few years, I’ve had an icon-esque painting depicting an African Virgin Mary with African Christ Child in her lap. It’s a great conversation starter among my primarily non-African-American students.

– Mark L. Chance.

 

[2shelbys]

There was a great documentary - on the History Channel, I believe - in which a forensic facial reconstructionist took the skull of an early first century Jewish male of approximately 30 years of age and made a reconstruction of what he (and Jesus) may have looked like. A dark and swarthy man, with an almost bulging forehead, thick lips, and a rounded face

I saw this show too. It had no real scientific basis at all. You can not take a random skull and assume that all males of the period had exactly the same basic structural appearance, nor is there any way to discern skin color from a skull. You may be able to guess at what that particular man looked like but it had nothing to do with Jesus. The entire show was nothing more than conjecture. As a scientific or historical analysis it was a meaningless waste of time.

Most of the Jewish people I have known in my life have been lighter-skinned than I am and I am of German-Italian descent. When you see Israeli television (which unfortunately is usually only after some innocent people have been blown up) most of the Israelis you see are fairly light-skinned. So the claim that light-skinned people would not last long in the middle eastern desert really does not hold water.

 

[ben_dy]

2shelbys:

I saw this show too. It had no real scientific basis at all. You can not take a random skull and assume that all males of the period had exactly the same basic structural appearance, nor is there any way to discern skin color from a skull. You may be able to guess at what that particular man looked like but it had nothing to do with Jesus. The entire show was nothing more than conjecture. As a scientific or historical analysis it was a meaningless waste of time.

Most of the Jewish people I have known in my life have been lighter-skinned than I am and I am of German-Italian descent. When you see Israeli television (which unfortunately is usually only after some innocent people have been blown up) most of the Israelis you see are fairly light-skinned. So the claim that light-skinned people would not last long in the middle eastern desert really does not hold water.

The only scientific basis that I took from it is that I understand that the type of forensic facial reconstruction is fairly good science and is able to offer a reasonable likeness of the person (I also understand that it’s been of benefit to law enforcement in reconstructing the likeness’ of remains found). But you’re right - the reconstruction could only (obviously) have been conjecture but I think that the purpose was not to show the face of Jesus but to offer conjecture as to what His facial appearance most likely would have been like in juxtaposition to that found in the majority of European art.

Having travelled extensively and frequently in Israel and throughout many middle-eastern countries, I’ve seen peoples with skin color that has ranged from a very dark brown to almost lily white but I assume that the latter comes from inter-marriage with ‘European stock’ and not pure semitic stock. I assume that during the time of Christ inter-marriage would have existed only between semitic tribes and that the ‘swarthiness’ would have been similar to that which we find today in, for instance, existing nomadic semitic tribes which have not reproduced with those from beyond their geographical regions.

Ben

 

[ben_dy]

deb1:

One thing that I didn’t like about the particular documenatary is that they seemed to find the most unattractive male skull. Why not just pick out some living Palastine males of the right age and photograph them. WOuldn’t Jesus resemble them?

As far as close cropped hair…Romans wore their hair close cropped. I wasn’t aware that any but the more Hellanized Jews did this. Do you have a link that I can look at? The only soures that I find on Jewish hair length of the time period are from Fundamentalist sources who are trying to prove that men should only have very short hair. This doesn’t seem unbiased to me. I would love to read any other historical sites, as I have looked and looked and can not come up with anything.:crying:

The man on the shroud had, I think, shoulder length hair. Part of which had been pulled back, and a few strands could be seen on the front. I will post a link to that.

No, I doubt that an average Palestinian of today would resemble a Jewish male at the time of Jesus - the closest one might come, today, might be amongst some Egyptians (where the Holy Family were able to ‘blend in’!) or some nomadic arab tribes. I think that the forensic reconstruction was pretty spot on far the most part (except for the lack of peyos - wouldn’t Jesus have worn peyos?). As for hair the only sources I’ve read of are (I believe) Syrian depictions of 2nd century Jewish males with close-cropped hair. And I think that St. Paul might offer some insight of the fashion of the times in 1st Corinthians: “Does not nature itself teach you that for a man to wear long hair is degrading to him, but if a woman has long hair, it is her pride?” Had Jesus had long hair, or if it had been the custom of the time, I don’t think St. Paul would have called the fashion ‘degrading’!

Ben

 

[Fox]

This question of Jesus’ skin colour is irrelavant and as no weight on His mission. Jesus could of been purple, pink,white, black, or green for all I care. I still love and follow Him to the best I can.

My personal belief is that He had olive mediterranean
skin, dark brown almost black curlyish hair, dark eyes, and a close cropped beard and moustache. He was probably wirey and svelt in frame considering His carpentry work and diet of the area. I think He had above average endurance from walking everywhere and working out in the sun. I think he was probably more healthy than the typical person. he was perhaps around 5"8 to 5"10.

 

[Naphali]

I’ve always thought of Jesus as middle-eastern looking too – BUT I know that David in the Bible was said to have a “ruddy” complexion and most people take that to mean he was a red-head – How does that factor into your thinking? anyone?

 

[deb1]

ben_dy:

No, I doubt that an average Palestinian of today would resemble a Jewish male at the time of Jesus - the closest one might come, today, might be amongst some Egyptians (where the Holy Family were able to ‘blend in’!) or some nomadic arab tribes. I think that the forensic reconstruction was pretty spot on far the most part (except for the lack of peyos - wouldn’t Jesus have worn peyos?). As for hair the only sources I’ve read of are (I believe) Syrian depictions of 2nd century Jewish males with close-cropped hair. And I think that St. Paul might offer some insight of the fashion of the times in 1st Corinthians: “Does not nature itself teach you that for a man to wear long hair is degrading to him, but if a woman has long hair, it is her pride?” Had Jesus had long hair, or if it had been the custom of the time, I don’t think St. Paul would have called the fashion ‘degrading’!

Ben

If I am not mistaken there was a population of Jewish people in Egypt at the time. I only remember this from my off line reading, so I can’t quote sources.(Sorry) I do know that there were many Jewish people living outside of Israel at the time. So, it might not have been hard for Jesus’ family to live in Egypt without attracting attention.

Due to the fact that Herod didn’t know who the actual child that he wanted dead was, Joseph, Mary and Jesus wouldn’t have had to blend in with the Egyptian population so much, as put distance between themselves and the king. Besides culturally the HOly Family couldn’t have blended in. Observant Jews had a special way of slaughtering and bleeding meat. They must also follow kosher laws. THe Egyptians around them would have known that they were a Jewish family.

My only point is that the Holy Family didn’t have to look like the Egyptians to live among them.

Interesting about the Syrian artwork. I will have to look that up. thanks.

 

[deb1]

Naphali:

I’ve always thought of Jesus as middle-eastern looking too – BUT I know that David in the Bible was said to have a “ruddy” complexion and most people take that to mean he was a red-head – How does that factor into your thinking? anyone?

I have always heard that Ruddy meant to have a reddish complexion, as though he had spent a lot of time outdoors, but I could be wrong.

 

[Fox]

complexion talks about skin colour not hair.

 

[AlanFromWichita]

Forgive me for skimming rather than studying before posting, but I heard a wonderful message on racism and the color of God.

When I had left the Catholic Church, it was actually TV preacher named Fred Price, a black man with a ministry in an LA ghetto, who encouraged me to buy, study, and eventually come to believe the Bible, leading to my eventual return to my cradle mother, the Catholic Church.

That was in about 1984 or 1985, just before I met my wonderful Catholic wife, who is still working to get me more Catholic!

Anyway, most of the TV stations where he bought commercial free time, began refusing to air his show because he was teaching on racism and said many politically incorrect things, apparently, angering liberals, whites and blacks alike.

He has books and taped on it, but I had the privilege of visiting his ministry in 2000 on Pentecost (I had already attended Mass the previous evening) when on a business/family trip to LA. The whole family came on a weekday and got a tour of the faithdome (a big enough dome sometimes airline pilots coming into LAX ask about it) and his new gymnasium to keep kids off the streets, the TV production equipment, etc. Sunday my oldest daughter and I (she was about 9 then) attended his service, and the man was as impressive in person as on TV. Seven months later the show aired on his regularly weekly slot, and we got to see ourselves on TNT, and I think BET.

Anyway, here’s the real point other than bragging about this man’s good work:

On racism, he said that if we were made in the image of God, then if one asks what color am I, then he supposes the answer is “I’m made in the image of God, so I guess whatever color God is, that’s the color I am.”

Alan

 

[Bobby_A.Greene]

Valtiel:

I wonder if this has been asked before, but if jesus was not purely white and the depiction of him as a stereotypical white man is incorrect, why does the church have such an image indorsed???

No, he was blue like a smurf. Sorry, I just hate color coding human beings. I just don’t believe that Jesus was a northern European caucasian if that is what you meant by ‘white’.

Anthropologically speaking, given the gene pool of the region of Palestine/Israel where he was born, he could have shared the same phenotype of modern day Palestinians. It was surmised that Jesus would have been about 5’ 2" tall and about 110 lbs given the standard height and weight of a male at that time.

Try this website, top rendition:

vcmagazine.org/vcm/article.asp?volume=5&issue=10&article=jesuslooklike

And what is your Anthropologic opinion and what is your Catholic opinion? Thanks.

 

[deb1]

AlanFromWichita:

On racism, he said that if we were made in the image of God, then if one asks what color am I, then he supposes the answer is “I’m made in the image of God, so I guess whatever color God is, that’s the color I am.”

Alan

That is very beautiful, Alan.

 

[JohnPaul0]

Looking at a map, Palestine is at the crossroads of Africa, Asia, and Europe. These continents are where the various races of men emerged (all of them if Native Americans migrated from Asia).

I’ve realized that Jesus coming from Palestine is the same as saying that all the continents and, therefore, all people can claim him as their own.