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joeybaggz
Guest
Was Jesus referring to Judas physical, temporal life, or his soul. Don’t know. Christ could have been simply referring to some form of knowledge that Judas would hang himself in the city dump and die and ignominious death. And that Judas’ reputation and historical presence would be an ending story of dishonor and cowardice. Don’t know if Jesus was foretelling Judas of his eternal fate.
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joeybaggz
Guest
And I repeat; was Judas’ act of hanging himself an act of reparation before God in line with the Jewish understanding of atonement being “only blood can expiate sin”? If Christians are to live as Christ wants us, we must have hope. I certainly hope Judas in at home with his Savior in God’s Kingdom.
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CelticWarlord
Guest
No one can say, of course, but he showed clear remorse and contrition. I’m betting he’s enjoying eternity with Jesus right now.
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Nat11
Guest
I sure hope he’s not in Hell, That would be horrible 
-Natalie
-Natalie
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Tis_Bearself
Patron
People who commit suicide do not automatically go to Hell. God may choose to be merciful to them, especially since their mental state may have been stressed or impaired and/or they may have repented at the last moment before death when it was too late to stop death from occurring.
The Church doesn’t declare where he is because, as many have stated, we have no way of knowing for sure.
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Tis_Bearself
Patron
Even if we assume Anneliese was truly possessed and not just mentally ill, the Devil is a trickster and liar, and can’t be relied on to tell us truthfully where Judas is.
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QuD
Guest
The CCC is not an exhaustive source of the Church teaching.
Crusader13
New member
Well the Church May not have officially or dogmatically defined the belief that Judas is in hell, but I think we can reasonably deduce from scripture that Judas is in hell. And it’s not wrong to have that belief or to say with assurance that one believes that he is in hell.
I don’t believe there’s any teachings or traditions that justify the belief that Judas is heaven.
I don’t believe there’s any teachings or traditions that justify the belief that Judas is heaven.
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OneSheep
Guest
Hmmm. Do you hold something against Judas?
Crusader13
New member
Well I don’t take it personally that he betrayed Jesus if that’s what you mean. I just believe from my understanding of what it says in Scripture and from what I’ve read from some of the earlier Church fathers that the proper understanding would be to conclude that Judas is in hell.
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OneSheep
Guest
Well, that isn’t really what I meant in the question. Do you hold Judas’ sin (betrayal) against his character such that he is not a beloved person, a person like you and I?
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Sbee0
Guest
We don’t know for sure. Only God knows.
If Judas had perfect contrition on his death for what he did to Jesus and to himself then perhaps he still could be saved, I would think after spending a LOT of time in purgatory.
If Judas had perfect contrition on his death for what he did to Jesus and to himself then perhaps he still could be saved, I would think after spending a LOT of time in purgatory.
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OneSheep
Guest
This is a very good question, I think. Can you empathize with what Judas did? Can you think of a scenario where you could have done the same as he did?
Crusader13
New member
I see what you’re saying now. I do believe he was beloved as you and I. However, as priest once told me “The only difference between Peter and Judas, was that Judas gave up.” He went on to explain further that Peter unlike Judas, repented and returned to Jesus and continued to follow Him even after his denial of Him.
There’s nothing in Scripture to suggest that Judas did that. Satan desired to sift Peter, much in the same way as he did Judas, but Peter was able to remain faithful, even after he fell.
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OneSheep
Guest
Well, we are definitely thinking alike on that point. Can you empathize with what Judas did, that is, could you have done the same?
Crusader13
New member
I would argue that we do know though. Scripture says that it would’ve been better for Judas not to have been born.
And the Son of man indeed goeth, as it is written of him: but woe to that man by whom the Son of man shall be betrayed. It were better for him, if that man had not been born.
Mark 14:21 -
If even the worst sinner repented and was accepted into Heaven, then it would be beneficial for him to have been born. However, that’s not what we read about Judas.
Crusader13
New member
I think forgiveness was there for Judas had he returned to Jesus and remained faithful even after his betrayal. Much like anyone of us who sins and repents of our sin and seeks to be reconciled once again to God.
The belief or speculations that Judas may have had a moment of repentance and perfect contrition before his death doesn’t fall in line with what we read about him in scripture.
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OneSheep
Guest
Well, there are obviously a variety of opinions on the matter. I think that the opinions have an underlying emotion, an underlying experience that forms the basis of the opinion.
One of the underlying bases for the opinion is whether or not one understands Judas’ position, whether or not one can relate to what he did. That was the reason for the question, “Can you empathize with what he did?”
So, can you?
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QuD
Guest
The CCC is an invaluable resource covering the whole breadth of the doctrine, providing a plain language SUMMARY EXPOSITION of the “essential” ordinary and extraordinary Magisterium. It is also a very good reference for catechesis. However it is not an exhaustive list and is not meant to be.
If the CCC was an exhaustive resource, it would mean that whatever is not in the CCC is not a Church teaching. A quick comparison with DS can show that there are magisterial statements not discussed by the Catechism. And the DS is also not exhaustive.
I like thinking about the CCC as a Lonely Planet guide - providing a full picture of the country, enough to live in, but of course not containing EVERYTHING that’s in because of its summary character.
If the CCC was an exhaustive resource, it would mean that whatever is not in the CCC is not a Church teaching. A quick comparison with DS can show that there are magisterial statements not discussed by the Catechism. And the DS is also not exhaustive.
I like thinking about the CCC as a Lonely Planet guide - providing a full picture of the country, enough to live in, but of course not containing EVERYTHING that’s in because of its summary character.
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