Was Mohammed a Sinner?

[inJESUS]

Emad:

As Muslims we believe that He revealed the truth to Jesus, but it was changed and lost after him. Then God resent it to Muhammad peace be upon him. All Prophets had the same message. We believe in all Prophets, not only some, denying one of them is denying all of them.

show me where in quran Allah says Jesus’ message will be corrupt…as stated in the above post, Jesus’ message will prevail till the end of days over all the opposing teachings.

You believe in all the prophets without even knowing what their teachings were…and no, they gave many contradictory teachings…you only know what mohammad said about them, but did you read what they wrote? and no the OT is not corrupt cuz :

1- Allah says he will preserve it
2- the Dead Sea Scrolls proves they are the same thousands of years ago.

 

[inJESUS]

Scholastic17:

Again, i am not a moral relativist. I don’t have to show Muhammed as a sinner in the eyes of Islam. I merely have to show him a sinner. I don’t have to show him a liar in the eyes of Islam (which is a lie.) I merely have to show him a liar. The blood of the martyrs sow him a liar.

Scholastic, according to God, mohammad was a very sinful man…but according to Allah, all the sins that God calls evil, allah calls good…that’s because allah is not God Almighty…so proving mohammad as sinful from God’s perspective is a piece of cake cuz his sins are abvious…you cannot compare the morality of Mohammad to that of Jesus, they are simply the opposite…

 

[inJESUS]

You believe that both Muhammed and Christ told the truth.

Yes they both came with the same exact message, worship One God and no one else. this is not the only message…to worship the Only God, there is morality involved as well…mohammad’s morality, teachings and behavior contradict those of Jesus…so no, God doesn’t need all these prophets to say there is One God but to show how to follow Him…the “how” of mohammad is Jesus’ opposite…in my opinion, if there were people who “changed” the Gospel ( that was like quran in teachings) then they were so stupid to change the laws of marriage and divorce and slaves and houris in paradise ecc and give instead the much more spiritual teachings of Jesus … i don’t believe any sane man ( but sinful) can reject the patriarchal laws of quran to give Jesus’ message cuz by definition, a man who corrupts God’s word is a sinful man and a sinful man will appreciate polygamy and easy divorce and women in paradise…if men were indeed involved, their teachings should project their minds and we should have a quranic Bible.

 

[Emad]

inJESUS:

Emad, i gave you hadith and prayer and a verse saying that mohammad needed to ask forgiveness for his dhanb…dhanb according to quran is something to be punished and deserves hell…i don’t care what dhanb allah/mohammad was refering to…the point is that there is a dhanb that needs forgiveness …and no mohammad was not giving you an example cuz allah mentioned mohammad in addition to other people…Sura 40:55 and 48:1-2 are only about mohammad’s sins…and in muhammad’s words, he is nothing but a human like all humans.Sura 18:110

Can you show me where in quran it says that mohammad is sinless? i showed you verses where Allah ask mohammad to ask for forgiveness of his sins…can you show me where Allah says mohammad is sinless?

The Prophet peace be upon him said that no one will enter paradise just based on his deeds, not even himself. A dhanb can be something big or small. The Prophet peace be upon him also said all of the children of Adam are Khataun, and the best of the Khataun are the tawabun.

 

[Emad]

InJesus, do you have a problem staying on topic? What is the matter? If he was such a sinful man, list the sin that he did. If not I will not respond to your off topic posts.

 

[Booklover]

MOHAMMED SINLESS???

1. March 624: Al-Nadr bin** al-Harith**
Before Muhammad’s Hijrah (Emigration from Mecca to Medina in 622), he used to sit in the assembly and invite the Meccans to Allah, citing the Quran and warning them of God’s punishment for mocking his prophets. Al-Nadr would then follow him and speak about heroes and kings of Persia, saying, “By God, Muhammad cannot tell a better story than I, and his talk is only of old fables which he has copied as I have.” Al-Nadr is referring to legends and opaque histories about Arabs of long ago and possibly to Bible stories about such figures as Noah, Abraham, Moses, and Jesus, which Muhammad told, but according to his own inaccurate versions. On other days al-Nadr would interrupt Muhammad until the prophet silenced him. In reply to al-Nadir’s harassment, it is possible (scholars sometimes have difficulties matching up Quranic verses with historical events) that Allah sent down these verses to Muhammad concerning him or certainly other mockers in Mecca, according to the account of Ibn Abbas, Muhammad’s cousin, who is considered a reliable transmitter of traditions:

25:6 Say [Prophet], “It was sent down by Him who knows the secrets of the heavens and earth. He is all forgiving and merciful.” (MAS Abdel Haleem, The Qur’an, Oxford UP, 2004)

83:13 … [W]hen Our revelations are recited to him, he says, “Ancient fables!” 14 No indeed! Their hearts are encrusted with what they have done. 15 No indeed! On that day they will be screened off from their Lord, 16 they will burn in Hell, 17 and they will be told, “This is what you call a lie.” (Haleem)

Muhammad did not take revenge on him—not yet—even though the verses in Sura 83 promise a dismal eternal future for mockers. Muhammad’s revenge was not long coming. It was al-Nadir’s bad fortune to join Mecca’s army, riding north to protect their caravan, which Muhammad attacked at the Battle of Badr in AD 624. The story-telling polytheist was captured, and on Muhammad’s return journey back to Medina, Ali, Muhammad’s son-in-law, at Muhammad’s order, beheaded him, instead of getting some possible ransom money. He was one of two prisoners who were executed and not allowed to be ransomed by their clans—all because they wrote poems and told stories critiquing Muhammad.

Source: Ibn Ishaq, The Life of Muhammad, trans. A. Guillaume, (Oxford UP, 1955, 2004), pp. 136 (Arabic pages 191-92); 163 / 236; 181 / 262; 308 / 458. Reputable historians today consider Ibn Ishaq to be a good source of early Islam, though they may disagree on his chronology and miraculous elements.

THIS IS JUST ONE OF SEVERAL INSTANCES IN WHICH MOHAMMED HAD PEOPLE ASSASSINATED SIMPLY FOR WRITING SATYRICAL POEMS ABOUT HIM!

 

[Emad]

MOHAMMED SINLESS???

b]1. March 624: Al-Nadr bin** al-Harith**
Before Muhammad’s Hijrah (Emigration from Mecca to Medina in 622), he used to sit in the assembly and invite the Meccans to Allah, citing the Quran and warning them of God’s punishment for mocking his prophets. Al-Nadr would then follow him and speak about heroes and kings of Persia, saying, “By God, Muhammad cannot tell a better story than I, and his talk is only of old fables which he has copied as I have.” Al-Nadr is referring to legends and opaque histories about Arabs of long ago and possibly to Bible stories about such figures as Noah, Abraham, Moses, and Jesus, which Muhammad told, but according to his own inaccurate versions. On other days al-Nadr would interrupt Muhammad until the prophet silenced him. In reply to al-Nadir’s harassment, it is possible (scholars sometimes have difficulties matching up Quranic verses with historical events) that Allah sent down these verses to Muhammad concerning him or certainly other mockers in Mecca, according to the account of Ibn Abbas, Muhammad’s cousin, who is considered a reliable transmitter of traditions:

25:6 Say [Prophet], “It was sent down by Him who knows the secrets of the heavens and earth. He is all forgiving and merciful.” (MAS Abdel Haleem, The Qur’an, Oxford UP, 2004)

83:13 … [W]hen Our revelations are recited to him, he says, “Ancient fables!” 14 No indeed! Their hearts are encrusted with what they have done. 15 No indeed! On that day they will be screened off from their Lord, 16 they will burn in Hell, 17 and they will be told, “This is what you call a lie.” (Haleem)

Muhammad did not take revenge on him—not yet—even though the verses in Sura 83 promise a dismal eternal future for mockers. Muhammad’s revenge was not long coming. It was al-Nadir’s bad fortune to join Mecca’s army, riding north to protect their caravan, which Muhammad attacked at the Battle of Badr in AD 624. The story-telling polytheist was captured, and on Muhammad’s return journey back to Medina, Ali, Muhammad’s son-in-law, at Muhammad’s order, beheaded him, instead of getting some possible ransom money. He was one of two prisoners who were executed and not allowed to be ransomed by their clans—all because they wrote poems and told stories critiquing Muhammad

Source: Ibn Ishaq, The Life of Muhammad, trans. A. Guillaume, (Oxford UP, 1955, 2004), pp. 136 (Arabic pages 191-92); 163 / 236; 181 / 262; 308 / 458. Reputable historians today consider Ibn Ishaq to be a good source of early Islam, though they may disagree on his chronology and miraculous elements.

THIS IS JUST ONE OF SEVERAL INSTANCES IN WHICH MOHAMMED HAD PEOPLE ASSASSINATED SIMPLY FOR WRITING SATYRICAL POEMS ABOUT HIM!

Look at what I highlighted in red. He was captured during war and killed. That means he was killed for attacking Muslims. I believe this was during the Battle of Badr. Also this isn’t a sin according to Islam, so try again. Ibn Ishaq is also not an Islamic source, though this story may be true, not everything in it is. Also can you give me the link to where you got the article from? Also this man used to write poems while Muhammad was in Mecca and he was killed in Medina, what brought this man to Medina? Why didn’t Muhammad kill him in Mecca?

 

[inJESUS]

The Prophet peace be upon him said that no one will enter paradise just based on his deeds, not even himself.

fine.

A dhanb can be something big or small. The Prophet peace be upon him also said all of the children of Adam are Khataun, and the best of the Khataun are the tawabun.

so he was one of the khataun (sinners) and he was good cuz he was from the tawabun (repenters) which proves he was a repenting sinner.

 

[Emad]

inJESUS:

fine.

so he was one of the khataun (sinners) and he was good cuz he was from the tawabun (repenters) which proves he was a repenting sinner.

He was a repenting sinner, but his sin isn’t considered a sin in Islamic teachings. God corrected and blamed the Prophet peace be upon him for frowning at a blind man. It certainly isn’t a sin to frown is it?

 

[inJESUS]

Emad:

InJesus, do you have a problem staying on topic? What is the matter? If he was such a sinful man, list the sin that he did. If not I will not respond to your off topic posts.

i will stay on topic as much as you want me to…i said i don’t care what his sins were…do you know every single moment of his life? no…well the guy prayed for repentance for what he did intentionally or by mistake and Allah ask him thrice to repent…the exact sin is absolutely irrelevant…it could have been anything that needed repentance from mohammad’s point of view.

 

[inJESUS]

Emad:

inJESUS:

He was a repenting sinner, but his sin isn’t considered a sin in Islamic teachings. God corrected and blamed the Prophet peace be upon him for frowning at a blind man. It certainly isn’t a sin to frown is it?

if Allah corrected him then it is a sin or mistake or you name it…it is something that Allah does NOT approve of…that’s it…you are beating round the bush…whether he repented or not, or whether it was big or small, mohammad repented from what he himself called “evil” done “intentionally” or by mistake…so he did both.if he repented is irrelevant…we are not talking of what he did later, we are saying he is a normal human being who does things that Allah does not approve of, no matter what these are islamically.

 

[Emad]

inJESUS:

Emad:

if Allah corrected him then it is a sin or mistake or you name it…it is something that Allah does NOT approve of…that’s it…you are beating round the bush…whether he repented or not, or whether it was big or small, mohammad repented from what he himself called “evil” done “intentionally” or by mistake…so he did both.if he repented is irrelevant…we are not talking of what he did later, we are saying he is a normal human being who does things that Allah does not approve of, no matter what these are islamically.

He is human and does make human mistakes, but he is not a sinner according to Islams definition of sins. If so tell me which sin he did.

 

[inJESUS]

Vicky, you will find a thousand sin commited by mohammad from a Christian perspective…just save your breath cuz any sin you find in your point of view is not considered one by muslims…not even a single one…they just can’t…but the point is made: mohammad was a sinner ( ok repenting) from islamic point of view.

 

[inJESUS]

Emad:

inJESUS:

He is human and does make human mistakes, but he is not a sinner according to Islams definition of sins. If so tell me which sin he did.

he did something that Allah does not approve of, whether killing or just frowning is irrelevant…

 

[Emad]

inJESUS:

Emad:

he did something that Allah does not approve of, whether killing or just frowning is irrelevant…

Yes, but it’s still not a sin according to Islams definition of a sin. He was human and his human mistakes were meant to teach us lessons. He is a human example, not an angel.

 

[Booklover]

inJESUS:

Vicky, you will find a thousand sin commited by mohammad from a Christian perspective…just save your breath cuz any sin you find in your point of view is not considered one by muslims…not even a single one…they just can’t…but the point is made: mohammad was a sinner ( ok repenting) from islamic point of view.

You’re right! As Ali Sina says in The Secret of Mohammed’s Success:

Right and wrong, good and bad are not appraised based on their own merits. Right is what Muhammad said or did and wrong is what he prohibited. In other words Muslims are not to judge Muhammad by norms of morality and commonsense but rather the standards of morality and commonsense are to be measured by Muhammad’s deeds and words.

Vickie

 

[inJESUS]

Yes, but it’s still not a sin according to Islams definition of a sin.

i don’t care…he did something that Allah did not approve of…

He was human and his human mistakes were meant to teach us lessons. He is a human example, not an angel.

exactly, that’s why he was sinful…

 

[inJESUS]

Booklover:

You’re right! As Ali Sina says in The Secret of Mohammed’s Success:

Right and wrong, good and bad are not appraised based on their own merits. Right is what Muhammad said or did and wrong is what he prohibited. In other words Muslims are not to judge Muhammad by norms of morality and commonsense but rather the standards of morality and commonsense are to be measured by Muhammad’s deeds and words.

Vickie

and that’s why Isaiah said : woe to you who see evil good and good evil.

a reason to pray more…

 

[whatevergirl]

Jesus was not merely mortal…he was also Divine–thus, sinless. Mohammed was human, not Divine. Aaaahhh…thus the great debate!

I said I wouldn’t comment on this anymore. Darn.

 

[jonfan]

Regarding Christian groups not sponsering hate as above.

Actaully A lot of KKK people claim to be good “christians” and will cleanse the earth in God’s name. Take this link for example:

twelvearyannations.com/

I think the difference is here the twelve aryan nations can’t opress us as maybe the taliban and groups like them are dictatorships and can opress people on the middle east. Pretty soon they believe there hype and blame all non muslims for thier problems. Similar to how Black people were blamed for a lot of things before the civil rights movement and started by groups like the one posted above.
I am not saying this is the same situation. It is not but they share a similar idealogy: Evil.

God Bless,
Jon