Was Muhammad a Prophet of the Judeo-Christian God ?

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Servant19 said:
Well please explain Kaninchen.

I’m not a Jew, but I do know factional conflicts exist within Israel…do they not?

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Contemplate the concept of ‘orthopraxy’ as opposed to ‘orthodoxy’ (note the lower case ‘o’).
 
Servant19 said:
Which is why it was a response to Peter Plato and not you dear sister 😉

Tell me about sons of Noah. Your understanding please 🙂

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Hey, Servant19, it’s easy to Google and will save me a lot of typing and we won’t get into trouble over thread drift.
 
Servant19 said:
The reality is that God has not just spoken to a small population of Israelis at a few points throughout history. Reconciling this fact is what faces those who claim exclusivity over God.
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Actually, I think God is quite capable of fending for himself. And reasonable human beings are quite capable of seeing where the “twisting” has occurred or is occurring, if we have a mind to.

The lesson to be learned from Jewish history, I suppose, is that even when and where God speaks directly and clearly to “a small population,” there is no inevitable conclusion to be drawn that the “small population” will necessarily heed what is being said. The Jewish Patriarchs, Moses, the Judges and the Prophets were quite candid about that – only remnants or small sub-groups listened faithfully.

If God speaking deliberately, directly and in no uncertain terms didn’t go over very well even within a “small population,” it isn’t clear to me that the whole of humanity would have listened intently or followed his will when he spoke in more muted whispers.

Perhaps it isn’t so much a problem of God speaking, but one of human listening. In other words, perhaps it was ONLY this “small population” that listened to what God had to say with any degree of consistency, loyalty or conviction.
 
Peter_Plato said:
Beware of wolves masquerading as sheep.

Why are you taking such pains to harp on divisions when you are supposed to be promoting “universal wonderfullness” and the message that we are all the same? Suddenly, you want to make distinctions?

What business is it of yours, this “trouble” between orthodox and reform Jews? Let them work it out.

Or are you looking for some bones? That wouldn’t make you a predator, then but a…

…never mind. We won’t go there.
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The intention is unity and harmony Peter.

I was asked a question and I answered it. I’m not looking for bones but to say the things we see here about Prophet Muhammad, the Bab and Baha’u’llah is unacceptable towards the intended outcome.

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No, Mohammad could not be a prophet in christian teaching. Why? Because all public revelation ended after the death of the last apostle. Mohammad was born nearly 500 years after the last apostle.

If you also look at the Jewish prophets we see them grouped in clusters and then say 50 - 200 years between prophets. So depending if one considers the last prophet to be Daniel (Jewish do not) or Malachi, there would have been 700 - 1000 years between the last prophet and Mohammad and then none for the last 1400 years. One would have to ask why there would have been 50+ prophets over a thousand years and then none for a thousand years and then a single prophet since that speaks against God’s chosen people.
 
Servant19 said:
Two questions:
  1. Which verse in the Quran are you referencing with this statement?
  2. What do you understand by the term “submit to Islam”?
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9 Sura At-Taubah (The Repentance)
  1. Fight against those who (1) believe not in Allah, (2) nor in the Last Day, (3) nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger (4) and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i.e. Islam) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.
  2. And the Jews say: 'Uzair (Ezra) is the son of Allah, and the Christians say: Messiah is the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouths. They imitate the saying of the disbelievers of old. Allah’s Curse be on them, how they are deluded away from the truth!
  3. They (Jews and Christians) took their rabbis and their monks to be their lords besides Allah (by obeying them in things which they made lawful or unlawful according to their own desires without being ordered by Allah), and (they also took as their Lord) Messiah, son of Maryam (Mary), while they (Jews and Christians) were commanded [in the Taurat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel)) to worship none but One Ilah (God - Allah) La ilaha illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but He) . Praise and glory be to Him, (far above is He) from having the partners they associate (with Him)."
  4. They (the disbelievers, the Jews and the Christians) want to extinguish Allah’s Light (with which Muhammad has been sent - Islamic Monotheism) with their mouths, but Allah will not allow except that His Light should be perfected even though the Kafirun (disbelievers) hate (it).
  5. It is He Who has sent His Messenger (Muhammad) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islam), to make it superior over all religions even though the Mushrikun (polytheists, pagans, idolaters, disbelievers in the Oneness of Allah) hate (it).
  6. O you who believe! Verily, there are many of the (Jewish) rabbis and the (Christian) monks who devour the wealth of mankind in falsehood, and hinder (them) from the Way of Allah (i.e. Allah’s Religion of Islamic Monotheism). And those who hoard up gold and silver [Al-Kanz: the money, the Zakat of which has not been paid], and spend it not in the Way of Allah, -announce unto them a painful torment.
and the commentary

Muslims are told to fight unbelievers until they are either dead, converted to Islam,
or in a permanent state of subjugation under Muslim domination.
Allowing people of other faiths to live and worship independently of Islamic rule is not an option.
 
Servant19 said:
The intention is unity and harmony Peter.

I was asked a question and I answered it. I’m not looking for bones but to say the things we see here about Prophet Muhammad, the Bab and Baha’u’llah is unacceptable towards the intended outcome.

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I am not clear that “universal wonderfullness” is the intended outcome, at least, not as conceived by Baha’i or Mohammad. In fact, I am not even clear that those are consistent with each other without a great deal of “twisting” applied by one or the other to the other.
 
Peter_Plato said:
Actually, I think God is quite capable of fending for himself. And reasonable human beings are quite capable of seeing where the “twisting” has occurred or is occurring, if we have a mind to.

The lesson to be learned from Jewish history, I suppose, is that even when and where God speaks directly and clearly to “a small population,” there is no inevitable conclusion to be drawn that the “small population” will necessarily heed what is being said. The Jewish Patriarchs, Moses, the Judges and the Prophets were quite candid about that – only remnants or small sub-groups listened faithfully.

If God speaking deliberately, directly and in no uncertain terms didn’t go over very well even within a “small population,” it isn’t clear to me that the whole of humanity would have listened intently or followed his will when he spoke in more muted whispers.

Perhaps it isn’t so much a problem of God speaking, but one of human listening. In other words, perhaps it was ONLY this “small population” that listened to what God had to say with any degree of consistency, loyalty or conviction.
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Fairly put Peter.

If I may add that in today’s world where knowledge is available to all, human listening should strive to fair-mindedly “include” rather than unfairly “exclude” people from a relationship with the one God.

There is no better unity than to revere others relationship with God. That’s the core of what unites us as human beings…

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Peter_Plato said:
I am not clear that “universal wonderfullness” is the intended outcome, at least, not as conceived by Baha’i or Mohammad. In fact, I am not even clear that those are consistent with each other without a great deal of “twisting” applied by one or the other to the other.
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Please elaborate with specific examples Peter 🙂

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Servant19 said:
Hi KEP

It’s not about the “continued existance” of Judaism. It’s about the fact that Judaism taught one thing, then Jesus came along and said another thing.

When a Jew analysed Jesus’ teaching it was false, pure and simple.
And so, to a Jew, there is no Judeo-Christian God.

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You have no understanding of messianism. There is nothing false about the teaching of Jesus Christ. Some of the Jews rejected Jesus as their messiah. They wanted a warrior messiah and not a loving son of God.
 
Tomdstone said:
I thought that some Roman Catholics believed in the revelations at Fatima?
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Public Revelation is complete with the death of the last Apostle. Private revelation such as Fatima is not part of Public Revelation. God Bless, Memaw
 
Ontheway said:
You have no understanding of messianism. There is nothing false about the teaching of Jesus Christ. Some of the Jews rejected Jesus as their messiah. They wanted a warrior messiah and not a loving son of God.
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I understand that Ontheway.

God never works in the ways that men expect or interpret from Scripture.

Please think about that 🙂

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**Back to the question at hand.
I believe that half of our question is answered by the precepts of Vatican II and by the subsequent statements of our Holy Popes, i.e. that the Muslims so indeed worship the “Judeo-Christian God.”

The second half of that question is about whether or not Muhammad actually had a commission from YHWH (or ALLAH, if you prefer) to bring a form of monotheism to the descendants of Ishmael.
About 2000 years prior to Muhammad, YHWH spoke to Moses face to face and gave him the Law. I see Muhammad as a sort of “Moses” sent to the tribes of Ishmael to bring them the Law.
But whereas YWYH spoke to Moses “face to face,” Muhammad had to make do with “the scraps fallen from the master’s table.”
As a result, mistakes were made, one of the most glaring of which is the Koran’s postulation that Jesus (Isa) did not suffer death by torture, someone else having taken His place.
This does not mean that Islam is not a religion for even the "scraps from the table’ have the power to nourish.

So my answer to the thread question is “yes,” Mohammad did receive a holy commission to bring monotheism to the tribes of Ishmael some 2000 year after Moses did that for the tribes of Israel.

It must also be noted that about 1800 years after the advent of the Jewish Messiah (Who’s Teaching applied to the whole world), we have the advent of the Muslim messiah who reforms the excesses of Islam (i.e. jihad prohibited)
and who also has a legitimate message for the whole world. **

**Blessed is the one who acknowledges our Creator and His wonders,
and who confesses that He is not to be questioned about what He does. **
 
Was Muhammad a Prophet?

He claimed to be, along with a host of other self proclaimed prophets, apostles, messiahs, god-men, swamis, gurus, etc… a claim rejected based on the facts of his life and post-life.

If Muhammad, why not:

Ram Bahadur Bomjon
L. Ron Hubbard
George Baker
Jim Jones
Vernon Wayne Howell
Mirza Husayn 'Ali Nuri
Jose Luis de Jesus Miranda
Sun Myung Moon
Marshall Applewhite
Yisrayl Hawkins
David Berg
Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh
Moses Botarel of Cisneros
Jacob Joseph Frank
Simon Magus
Dositheos the Samaritan
Tanchelm of Antwerp
Ann Lee
Bernhard Müller
John Nichols Thom
Hong Xiuquan
Jacobina Mentz Maurer
William W. Davies
Cyrus Reed Teed
André Matsoua

and on and on and on and on… 🤷
 
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